Short recap of my sitch, which I thought I was alone in, but looking for others and their thoughts.
My H and I married 28yrs H: WAS had PA and back home now for 2 yrs. OW lived out of town Now: I recently learned what I had thought was true, the EA continued and I confronted him recently. Now what????????????
After a year S, my H returned to our home about 2 yrs. ago, H stated the A was over and wanted to really work on us. Yes, we've had some great progress, but in the back of my mind I have always wondered if H and OW stayed in contact.
My H and I never attended MC ( he wouldn't, H doesn't talk, silent about his guilt, still has issues of depression he won't admit)
Our R seemed to be making big strides, but only if I was silent about the past. Very little R talk at all between us, but still we had come a long way from how low our R had been. In the meantime I always had a nagging doubt of his continued contact. I believe ( with a lot of watching on my part, and OW being several hours away), that the PA ended, but know for sure the phone/email continued. I decided not to snoop at all, until this week, but knew in my heart that being naive and wearing blinders wasn't the answer.
Finally I confronted, H admitted, but swears only phone/email. Even if that all it was/is, the saddest part is that H doesn't get how much the lies, secrecy are still so hurtful.
Unfortunately, the day after I found out of the continued EA, got bad news on my mom's health, and I decided I could only focus on her, and not 2 crisises at once. The day I approached H that "I knew", he spew all the right words that reminded me of the PA and being caught back then. " ILY, i'll do anything, etc." all seeming to me like a person who when they get caught will say anything. Because I felt I needed to lean on my H during my mom's crisis, I have not said much. But the words I have spoke to H about this continued contact have put him in a low depression. Like----how dare he?
I think my H was the OW's rescuer, H was fond of her children, helped the OW through some bad times, and continued to keep up this connection, even as he was doing many right things for our M.
do EA connections continue because I enabled it to? never saying it's me " all or nothing"? how should I have or now set the boundarys, when I saw so many positives in our piecing, but at the same time the EA continued. Is this piecing all a lie?
Sorry this happened. I, of course, don't have all the answers. I belong in Piecing too, but I spend most of my time in Infidelity.
While I know this is depressing, phone and internet contact isn't the same as seeing her and having sex. If this is all it was, I don't think it's as bad as a full-blown affair. But I understand where you are coming from, that it was supposed to be over. Will it ever be over?
My sitch is on this board in several places, but I'll recap it briefly. I've been married 27 years. We were fairly unhappy in the marriage for about the past 20 years...Since the children were young. But we just kept going, because that's what you do. My H began an internet/phone affair with his old girlfriend from before I met him last summer, and by November they were stealing away for weekends together. I caught it on what I believe was the second of their little honeymoons. I confronted him with the cell phone bills and demanded that he stop. He said he would. 2 weeks later I checked the bill again, and they were talking daily. I gave her phone number to my angry 23 year old son, and asked him to call and say whatever he wanted. So he called her at 9 in the morning and threatened her if she didn't stop the affair. So she broke up with my husband that day.
We tried to get along and put our lives back together after that, but it was not working too well. First it was hard to get him sexually interested in me again. Then we would have a week of good days, and try a relationship talk, and be ready to kill each other. So we knew it was the end.
We signed up for a Retrouvaille weekend, and went in January. We had a lot of breakthroughs at the weekend, and came home more like the people we were 27 years ago when we got married, than the people who went in. We continued through Feb. and March with the Retrouvaille Post sessions, and by mid-March we were graduates. We were officially turned around.
Jean, it worked. We have not had one argument since the weekend in January! (Believe me, that's a miracle.) If your husband says he will do anything, make him promise to do a Retrouvaille weekend. They teach you how to communicate effectively, how to argue constructively, how to see the best in each other. The website is http://www.retrouvaille.org, with locations and dates of the weekends. If you're not into religion, don't let that throw you off. It is a Catholic program, but they don't emphasize that component. It really is all about making your marriage better by learning to communicate your feelings in a positive way.
They will make it clear at the weekend that he needs to completely end contact with her and devote himself to the marriage. And when you go through the dialogue technique that they teach you, and talk about your past together and your hopes for the future, he will want to focus only on the marriage.
I am a broken record here on the board, telling everyone to try Retrouvaille. I do it because for me it was a miracle. And I wish this same miracle for all the people who are in pain.
thanks Sara for your thoughts and my deepest hopes in your reconnection.
Sadly, my H, will not attend. And I can say this without even asking. As I said, I believe he spewed out as soon as he was confronted with my knowing, "I will do anything". And by his recent moody, silent, depressive behavior, it was said because again he was caught.
I see a C, H occasionally sees an individual C, but as I said no MC. He refuses and I never pushed, because I believe pushing to see a MC is/was not the answer if he would be "dragged." When I say my spouse is silent, it means, when any R talk mentioned, he literally hangs his head, face goes into complete shutdown, eyes close. The weekends you mention sound wonderful and communication to me is critical, but i feel needs to be wanted together as a couple.
I should return to MLC and the depressive behavior boards, since I know this is a very huge component. How to distance and work on myself, when I feel as if our "piecing" looked so well from the outside, when I remained silent, but if we never had honesty, did we ever have a chance?
And I feel like I was only kidding myself, but so many actions on his part were so right, even without him being able to speak them.
If I had been stronger in setting boundaries would I still be living with an EA? How do you detach, distance myself from the EA and piece at the same time?
I am sorry that my answer will not work for you. That is the problem. We all have to search to find our own answers. I am really sorry for your situation. It sounds awful. {{{hugs}}}
do EA connections continue because I enabled it to? never saying it's me " all or nothing"? how should I have or now set the boundarys, when I saw so many positives in our piecing, but at the same time the EA continued. Is this piecing all a lie? ========================================= Don't you dare blame yourself for HIS failure and weakness, if you read my sitch i also just found out my H was having an A with op AGAIN. Was i perfect during all this past yr of piecing? no, did I try my darnest and gave it my all? YES darn it, I did!
DUring the first discovery of the A (it was way over by the time I learned about it) I *told* him to stop all contact, that "it was all or nothing. It didnt' work, #1 because he shoul've been the one who said it #2 he, all this time, still was confused why he had the A (perhaps it was a real R that he lost?) and gave in into temptation when she called him. He was planing on cutting the R but couldn't do it, she was a wreck with many issues and he felt sorry for her (I know I know, that doesn't take away the fact that he lied to her and me and it was a heinus act).
The cheater has to man up to his mistakes, on their own, it has to come from their heart not our insistance/persuation.
My piecing fell appart not because of what I did, but because my H was never truly whole, he admited he tried to spend more time at work because he coudltn' feel happiness (keep in mind my H has very deep issues and an untreated problem).
=================================================== And I feel like I was only kidding myself, but so many actions on his part were so right, even without him being able to speak them. =============================================== Oh yea, btdt, I was fooled too, thinking all was well, but guess what, who's the real failure here, us who were loyal and fighing for our Ms, or our Hs, unable to let go of the damsel in distress?
=================== How do you detach, distance myself from the EA and piece at the same time? =================== The second time is harder to begin to trust, I know it hon, I'm taking it one day at a time, I need to see real change on my H before i begin to think of putting my heart ont he line again. Has he said he's breaking contact w/her? what steps is he taking to end that R? Give yourself time, if it doesn't feel right to get near him now, then it's just not the right time, let your heart set the pace. I want you to get this book called "the wounded woman".
Hang in there pal, I remember you from my old' days of piecing, we will come stronger, again, just doens't feel that way now hon.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Yes, I do remember many of your supporting words to many and myself. I often came here to read and to get a "hang in there" pep talk from yourself and others.
I did read a bit on your recent return of the OW, continued contact, and the hard times you also are having. Am so sorry you are back in this place too.
About a year ago, I decided, (when H home and seemed to be trying in his own silent way to reconnect) that my being so hypervigilant was not a behavior I wanted to continue. The constant reassuring myself, the snooping, the waiting for R talk, was taking a toll. I totally stopped looking for trouble, and things on the surface were moving forward. But in reality, things were only appearing better, because I let everything remain unsaid.
Very true, as you said, this 2nd appearance of realizing the EA with OW is just as hard. The continued phone/email contact was still needed by him, and hurts so much. I'm sure you are going through much of the same of being his distant loving partner, very torn to see him being beat down by feelings of the depression, guilt, but knowing their unacceptable behavior continued.
I want to start a conversation with H today regarding a routine dr. visit he has tomorrow. How to tell him, this would be a person to start with to admit his depression and find some help? How to let him know, ILY, but you are responsible for your own actions.These few words I want to say seem so hard right now. I am afraid my "suggestion" would be met with denial or anger. At the same time, I know I can't fix any of his problems for him. I don't think he ever got it when he first returned home and I never pushed for answers either.
Did you see real positive progress when your H came home, that now makes you look back and wonder how real it was? Or can it even be called progress in my situation when the EA was continuing? By positive steps, in our situation: we laughed more, made time more for each other, couple great vacations, text each other with flirting and romantic messages, ML, cards, ........But.... all without ever speaking of how we let ourselves slide before the A and all without speaking of any closure of his A.
Do I suggest his telling his own MD of his depression as a start? and how? I too, need to look back at the positives I have found deep in myself these past couple years and continue to build on these.
thanks for the book suggestion, unlike my H, I get a lot of support from books, friends, this support of people here.
Did you see real positive progress when your H came home, that now makes you look back and wonder how real it was? ----------------------------------------------- he gradually warmed up to me, took a while to open up soI took it as a sign that we were doing real progress. He, on the other hand, felt as lost with himself, me and the world and was just glossing over his problems and real feelings
Do I suggest his telling his own MD of his depression as a start? ----------------------------------------------------------- Yes, even now, as destroyed as my H is, he feels like a failure by having to admit he needs a "shrink". So your h might not be happy to hear it but you never know, he might try (my H will be making his appt tomorrow)
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
For over a week now, since I confronted that I knew about the continued contact with OW, thngs between us have been back to the times of uneasiness. Quiet between us, quiet politeness, quitely being in the same house, but different rooms, conversation strained, etc.
Last night as we sat together I very much wanted to bring up subject of H's depression and my wanting him to continue seeking help---see the C he only occasionally sees and as a start tell his own MD about the depression also. I started with an ILY, wanting him to find peace and then suggested both. It was met with mostly silence and an " I got myself into this myself and will need to get my self out" end of conversation.
What the h_ll.!!!! I know, I should know!, I CANNOT fix him. But not once did I mention the continued contact with OW, and what I have been feeling. The nagging doubts over the months of "was it over?" "do they talk or see each other?" does my knowing EA continues mean a PA also possible? Now is when I am unsure of the DBing principles. Did H return home before his demons were faced? and did my silence allow them to remain?
If partners could face depression together, without OP involved, a whole other scenario of feelings would be there for me. I look at his beaten down face, silence,sense of failure and I want to be there for him, BUT at the same time I want to slap myself or him, knowing poor, sad spuse continued to lean on OW.
i think the most looming thoughts for me are how to balance the anger in knowing of the continued contact and seeing H in such a depression. Or do the use the depression as an excuse? if you are depressed, no R talk, easy out for them.
I do want to be there for H, but need to voice my strength of "never again" if it involves op. any easy answers?
Hi Jeanb. I am on the other side of the fense. I had an EA with OM over the internet. It was quickly leading to a PA when I called it off. I was depressed, on edge, felt like I was going to "stoke" any minute, etc. My H found out about OM and starting trying to force me to stop the contacts....well, that was the wrong thing to do. The more pressure he applied, the more determined I was to contact the OM, b/c I resented H treating me like a child! I rebelled! Also, H started smothering me and doing all the "wrong" things that DB talks about....snooping, spying, clingling, etc. I hated it. It almost made me hate him. I had my hand on the door knob ready to walk out. I told him to back off and give me my space and privacy or I was walking. He did.....but said I had to stop contacting OM. I said, okay. However, it was not right away that I did stop.....b/c I was addicted. I did not realize that until I came here on this board and some wise people pointed that out to me. Plus, I read everything I could get my hands on.
I doubt you are going to like what my advice to you will be. You probably want more than what I'm going to say....but it's all there is. First, he does need help with the depression. Try to get him to agree to see a doctor. Now, he is trying to decide between you and the OW....IMHO. While he is deciding who he is going to choose, you need to be the best woman he has ever met! I know you will want to talk about the MR.....don't. You will nearly die wanting to know if he is still contacting OW.....don't ask or snoop or spy trying to find out. He is still doing it. But, if you want him.....fight for him. Not with all the wordy stuff....but by your calm, sweet, and gentle spirit. Look great, talk softly and calmly.....and sweet. Not stupidly....but you know what I mean. If my H had just have talked sweetly to me and given me some time and space....maybe I would have come around sooner. I don't know. Since I felt the need to reach out to another man....well, that's my stitch, not yours. Anyway, all you can do is be your very best to win his heart back again. You are competing with the OW! Now, we gals know how to do that....don't we? For sure, don't act like a witch.....or bitchy. That never, ever works! Try to act "as if" everything was going to be good again and fine things to fill up your life. Act happy and light. He is loaded down and feels so heavy with all this serious mess he has gotten himself into. I know that what I suggest is not easy to do. But, has anything else worked?
By all means, keep your self-respect! Don't do anything or let him do anything to take that away from you. Don't allow anyone to degrad you. If you don't respect yourself....nobody else will.
Well, I sure hope things get better soon. Let me hear from you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
