Next step. Set and enforce a firm boundary there. You don't need the drama. It is pointless to involve yourself in it.
"MIL, unless it is a clear emergency or it involves the kids, I don't want to know. H can share whatever info he wants to. Otherwise, it is none of my business and I prefer to keep it that way."
Glad FL was good for you. I hoped it would be. I am sure you can round up DBers for a minibreak for an upcoming weekend too if you need a refresher!
Yeah, I was hoping to do a fall leaf-peeping thing, maybe with a day trip into NYC for a show (its only an hour away on the train), or Boston (about 2--3 hours). There is hiking, maybe a balloon ride, something like that.
I just got back from a great time at the party. Lots of adult convo, very supportive friends and "family." It felt very good to be there, surrounded by so much support and just some happy moments, even so close to home. The kids all played on some slip-n-slides, drew in the street with chalk and rode bikes, then inside to watch the High School Musical 2--there were about 15 kids, all sitting around the big screen eating popcorn and being good to each other. I had three (!) Strawberry / pina colada--type drinks (like hard ice tea) and was loopy for about an hour; another 180 for me. Good thing it is just social--doesn't do a thing to change my moods. And I'm enough of a dizzy blonde as it is.
Still on the path. Oh, btw, it is 8 days and counting of my no-contact. I know H never thought I could do it. I'm not sure if I thought I could. But this is a different place. I read Nomo's thread as of late, and hope that the detachment doesn't come at too high a price for me...
Well, H came by with the kids tonight to pick up S's overnight stuff (he decided to stay).
H wanted to talk. He told me that, before I heard it from someone else, he wanted me to know that he met up with CW and her kids at the fair with my kids. D and her friend were "so happy" to get a chance to be together.
I stayed calm. I told him that he knows how I feel about this whole thing, and my position is that it will cause long-term damage to our children to be around this woman. He kept trying to bring it back to the friendship between the kids. I said that I am sorry that the friendship is not able to be kept up, but that I feel that the potential damage is of too great a concern. I thought that he understood that when he agreed to the pre-trial orders. He said that he did that "in the short-term" but that he felt that there can't be a no-contact order without something specific from the courts. He said that his parents and I are the only ones who have a problem with him and CW together (I actually called his sis later to talk to her about it--she said that she would never accept her, he already feels disowned by the family because of his choices, and they are all angry at him. I did thank her for being there for him, even as a sounding board, since he seems so alone in all of this. I was just concerned that they would help him get CW more involved with the kids' lives. He hears only what he wants to hear.)
I asked him if this was worth the contention that it may cause, as I will continue to keep my children's best interests in mind on this issue. I cannot control his actions, but I will never condone a relationship with this woman. The children will not have contact with her while spending time with me, and the truth is going to come out about the terrible moral choices he has made.
I said that it just follows the pattern of his avoiding conflict again. He said that if he wanted to avoid conflict, he wouldn't have told me at all. I said that it was exactly what he was doing--telling me after the fact when I can't do anything about it. He said, what would I have said if he told me before hand? I would have said no, bring them home.
I just think he is so far gone. He is starting to display more open animosity toward me. He keeps saying that he never meant to hurt me, but I said that he has hurt me, knowingly, and keeps hurting me. I said that I don't want the man that he has become, that the lying and convincing me that I was crazy was what has hurt the most. He says he knows exactly what he did, but stayed so long because of my mental state.
He said he is not coming home, ever. He did not miss me, or miss the pit in his stomach when he had to see me. He doesn't want it. Even if he breaks up with this woman, if she goes back with her husband. He said, You will never accept any other relationships I may have in the future--I said no, just not this one, the one that broke up our marriage when I was still trying to save it.
I am just sad about the whole mess--it is such a shame. He wants to try to be friends, be around each other with no pressure. He said he can't do anything (friends, coparent) with me if I am still holding out to save the marriage. I told him he doesn't have to worry about that anymore. I could see the possibilities that were on the other side of us making it through this together, but he never could. He can't let go of the past, or forgive. I mentioned about forgiveness being a gift to yourself, letting go of the negative past, hurts and resentments. He said, so, I will live my life miserable and alone. I said, if you choose to.
There is nothing else to say. The parenting class today spoke about parallel vs. co-parenting. I can only do parallel right now--business only. He has to live this life and feel the consequences of his choices. Who knows? Maybe he and CW will find happiness, since she will make him her whole life. My H was the most important thing in my life, but not the only thing.
There was probably more, as we finished the talk tonight over the phone. I am so done with tears. I do feel so much differently about him. I really don't care right now what he does, as long as the impact on the kids is kept at a minimum. He is still paranoid--as we were getting off of the phone, he had thanked me for getting him breakfast (got D&D for the kids, so brought him some, too). I said something like I had to make sure they ate before I dropped them off--he shoots back, what, you don't think I would have fed them?! Urgh--no...I just had them for the morning and saw it as my responsibility, it was not a slight against you.
Anyway, I am rambling at this point. At least he has made it easier to remain detached as I got home. Still twisting anything that is said, still unreasonable, still so sure that what he is doing is the only possible option. So be it.
I have enough friends. And he hasn't been my friend for a long time, at that.
Sorry he hasn't changed for the better. There isn't anything you can do. He's just going to do what he wants. He's got you cast as the wicked witch of the west. So you are doing the right stuff by washing your hands of him as much as possible. You've done a great job getting a life and growing stronger every day. So just turn your back and go on....you've got much better things ahead. The kids will struggle through too.
Sounds like you did OK. But, again, I'd recommend that you just stick to business.
Don't be his shrink. Don't be his judge. Don't try to get validation from him for your perspective. All that conversation did was let him work himself up into feeling more sure about his choices, and disrupt your evening.
As for the kids seeing CW, you aren't going to prevent it. It is a destructive waste of energy to try to do so, IMHO. I posted about this yesterday(?) on BFM's thread if you are interested.
No. CW did not destroy your M.
Parallel parenting and no friendship sounds like a very good place to be right now. Good job.
I woke up and realized that I had participated in a R talk with him yet again (I know: Duh!) He forced my hand with the CW issue with the kids. It is hard not to judge him and his actions, OT. His sh!tty choices hurt me, which is bad enough, but the mother bear in me is rising up in response to how they are impacting my children.
We both agreed that convos like yesterday do nothing for us--I said that I feel like we need a translator when we talk, and he agreed. Maybe someday he will see that a therapist might be able to help us, but I'm just not interested in that right now. I don't think he would be a willing participant, and would likely lie as he has done in the past. I'm sure that my frustration came across, as I let go of trying to have him see my perspectives during the convo. It was evident that he would not see it, regardless of how I said anything.
The parenting leader in yesterday's class asked if he had had a recent physical, given his changes in core values. She thought there might be some depression or hormonal thing going on. Yeah, that suggestion would go over well! She gave me a few ideas on how to talk with my son, since I am pretty sure that he will be told by someone about the sitch once school starts (at least 2 kids in the neighborhood know), and I'd rather hear it from me/us first. It focused on choices that adults are free to make, even if we don't agree with them (trying to keep his sense of developing morality in place). She hopes H owns up to his actions with S--when I touched on that during the convo, H asked if we should just tell them that the R started after the sep! I said no, that is not truthful...more lies. This is the only part of the convo that we have to go back and finish, and I will try to do that by Wed/Thurs this week. School starts on next Tues.
I see CW's role in our M as one of someone who saw an opening, a weakness, and took advantage of it. She said to my face that she was a friend and wanted to do anything she could to help the M, all the while reinforcing and encouraging my H's venting, stroking his ego, and stepping in. H asked yesterday, if I was so threatened by her for so long, why wasn't I more introspective then and attempt to make changes to keep him before the bomb; I was always blaming outside sources. I simply believed in him, in our M, that he would never do such a thing. I took the strength of our M and his character for granted.
I understand that the original issues were in our M. She did not create them. But she was there to encourage him to talk to her, share and develop those intimacies, instead of telling him to turn back to me and fix it. This woman acted the friend to me and my family for 11 years; she is no friend.
But I also see that he made choices along the way, as well. Right now, CW is just in the way of us moving forward--it isn't possible while she is in the picture. I know that there isn't anything I can do to speed up the process, as I am relatively sure that their R will blow up. I wish I could do a 180, tell him that I am happy for him that he found his happiness and wish him well in his life. But I feel that I can't do that when it would expose my kids to a more open R between the two of them, and he would use it to validate his including her in family functions (Donna's ok with it, so you all should be, too).
I am not sure what will happen about this issue in court tomorrow, especially if he doesn't show up (which I suspect he won't). I do plan on asking the judge about it, citing the poor parenting of her own children and lack of moral character. I will read your post to BFM, OT.
I am so tired of this, tired of working so hard for what I believe in, yet is something that he doesn't want and can't be forced into. I don't want him to feel like I forced or coerced him into anything--I want him to WANT to work on it. I don't want it out of obligation. But I also can't make him hold value in something that he clearly doesn't have.
I have let it go, this M. There is nothing I can do or say that hasn't already been said. Now, I have to frame all convos/contact around business and the kids' best interests. I'd rather not have any at all at this point, but there are still those loose ends that will need to be tied up, and I am sure that other issues will arise.
My to do list:
1. Open new checking acct and get financial mess straightened out.
2. Give him a do-by date to transfer the credit card acct into his name.
3. Buy a computer for the kids. He won't return the kids', citing lack of funds. Yet he told me yesterday he bought the parts for his motorcycle and put it on his credit card--and that we all have to make sacrifices. Nice.
4. Today--finish up the paperwork for court tomorrow.
5. Cut down half of a tree struck by lightening in the yard last week (H said that he would come by to help if I wanted; I said I could handle it). Mow the lawn.
6. Last convo about the affair--the kids have to be told this week. I will contact a few of the child psych people for other opinions. H will be given the option to participate.
7. Continue to look for a TV on craigslist.
8. Contact the L that I consulted with to find out how much it would cost for her to go over the paperwork that I am filing out and submitting to the court system (one of the other parents in the class yesterday was doing this; cost him about $1000). I may even have access to a L through my union, so I will look at that, too. ***
Have I said that I am SO looking forward to the start of school and getting back to my life? I got word that they assigned a student teacher to my care--I am very excited about that!
Once I get all of these issues taken care of, I hope that the sitch will quietly settle down and become a much lower priority. Unless he pulls something, this should be it until Nov 19th.
He said he is not coming home, ever. He did not miss me, or miss the pit in his stomach when he had to see me. He doesn't want it. Even if he breaks up with this woman, if she goes back with her husband. He said, You will never accept any other relationships I may have in the future--I said no, just not this one, the one that broke up our marriage when I was still trying to save it.
I am just sad about the whole mess--it is such a shame. He wants to try to be friends, be around each other with no pressure. He said he can't do anything (friends, coparent) with me if I am still holding out to save the marriage. I told him he doesn't have to worry about that anymore. I could see the possibilities that were on the other side of us making it through this together, but he never could. He can't let go of the past, or forgive. I mentioned about forgiveness being a gift to yourself, letting go of the negative past, hurts and resentments. He said, so, I will live my life miserable and alone. I said, if you choose to.
That is so frustrating I can hardly think! I got this same speech! Where do they download it from? Do they keep it in their WS manual? They act like we are their exgirlfriends from high school and that we are stalking them! Da##, they have no idea we are women who have kids to protect. How selfish and small minded. I am sorry again. As I said before you are one month ahead of me, my crystal ball. Our coparenting class starts in a few weeks. Oh joy. I actualy thought that might snap him out of it but I guess it did not work n your H so I should not get my hopes up. I thought when he heard my D6 needed a therapy group that would too, but he just said, "I feel guilty and selfish." Then went about his business.
Can I ask you, how are we supposed to deal with Back to School? Do you just act like they are any other people? I am humiliated at the the thought of my H waltzing around my D's school. He used to vuolunteer and pick her up twice a week. Should I say that is OK or take over doing it myself since he is so whackadoo and not in Daddy mode? I need to know what to do about that schedule today!
Me:38 H:39 MLC M:10 R:23 years D6 S3 Bomb: Easter, 2007 "Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day."
I would have to go back and read your whole sitch (I have been dropping in from time to time, though)--you say he is not in Daddy mode. How has he demonstrated this? If he is not in daddy mode, do you think he will still want to be picking up your D? Are those days that he is scheduled to visit with her?
If at all possible, I would try to encourage a R between H and your D, but only if it is safe. We have to put our own pride on the back-burner. Also, most schools have resources for kids going through their parents Sep/Div. Let the teacher or school guidance dept know; they may even have lunch-bunch groups for kids to talk to each other who are also going through this.
This is one of the issues that you HAVE to talk to H about--if you are like me, it is best to keep it kids and business. I would NOT recommend doing the parenting course together if you are not both on the same page--the first time was VERY traumatic for me. I did get a little out of the second round, but most of it is common sense, and my background in teaching helps.
BTW,when I said don't be H's judge, I didn't mean don't judge H. I meant don't pronounce your judgements on H, keep them to yourself. (But, if you want to work on not judging H, that sounds good too.) Psychoanalyze him all you want too, just keep your theories about his problems to yourself. (But, you've also probably figured out the more you can quit trying to explain his psyche to yourself, when even he doesn't understand it, the better for YOU.)
"I do plan on asking the judge about it, citing the poor parenting of her own children and lack of moral character."
Hey, doesn't hurt to ask. And, maybe the judge will do something in your case, especially in light of CW's D's cutting. (But, don't count on it.) If they won't grant no contact, maybe they will at least say that she can't be alone with the kids. (But, don't count on that either.) If they turn down both requests, this leaves fighting for full custody. I doubt you believe that is in the kids' interest.
Anyway, I don't think the struggle with H will get you anywhere other than to a place where there is increased animosity between you and H that bleeds onto the kids. Better to either get a court order regarding the CW sitch and handle any violations in a businesslike manner or let it go.
You are trying to control H's actions through your own. But, your approval/disapproval is not going to determine what H does. H will expose the kids to CW precisely when, where, how he wants to. If you fight him, he'll feel good about doing it as a big FU to Donna. If you endorse it, he'll feel good about doing it as something OK with Donna. If you ignore it, he'll feel good about doing it as something that doesn't matter to you. Blah blah blah. He will rationalize and justify whatever he wants to do no matter what you do. Not in your control.
As for telling the kids about the A and the details, sounds like a great idea to get a professional opinion. And, remember, with kids, there is a difference between lying and keeping adult matters private. Maybe, "Kids, you might hear in school that CW and Daddy are dating. Yes, that is true. Mommy and Daddy had some adult problems and we aren't together now. CW and Daddy are dating."
I doubt that the kids will push for more details.
Like I said on BFM's thread, think of how you would want to protect the kids R with their Dad from all this crap if he came home today and you two built a wonderful M together. Your kids deserve to have that R with their father protected whether or not you reconcile.
