Do I want him back?

[inmyplace]

I get your concern. There is just nothing you can do about it. His daughter.

[inmyplace]

angelica,

You write:

There have been many discussions about OW on these boards, none of them very flattering, but one consistent factor that emerges is how many of them are actually mentally ill - by bi-polar, emotionally unstable, schizophrenic and so on.

This gets very tiring. Of course, an angry LBS is going to paint OM/OW in the most negative light possible. They may not exactly be thinking straight getting involved with someone who is married, but that doesn't make them mentally ill. It makes a convenient boogieman.

I think they attract the MLCer, and are attracted to them. RCR talks about negative energy, and it does make sense. If you say 'The OW is crazy' it sounds like the angry wife, but truly, so many of them are extremely disturbed. And of course they so often play on this as the MLCer tries to break it off - suicide threats, and so forth.

I know of one OW who committed suicide. It had nothing to the with the MLCer who left his wife. And remember, the spouse presented themselves to the OM/OW as available for action. It is always easier to paint that person in a negative light. It is the spouse who made the decision to leave, pure and simple.

This stuff has nothing to do with Divorce Busting.

Now, here is something that is very true:

If we stand for our marriage we can't accept reality

What is good is that it is something that we can control. One can stand and accept reality. Open your eyes and you can see the situation. But no one knows what the outcomes of any of these situations may be.

You can stand and DB.
You can stand and accept reality.
You can stand and have a spouse who is off with a sane person.

IMP

[angelica]

IMP - MLC is not about divorce busting per se - read Michelle's stuff: she is quite explicity about that.. We are trying to save our marriages, but the reason for this particular BB is that a rather large body of people do think there is such a thing as MLC, that their spouses are behaving with particular oddity [and some of them don't have affairs, even]. DBing with somone extremely irrational is difficult.

It is good that you are sceptical, and question, but please give us the credit for some sense. If someone is on medication for being bi-polar, or has an independently verifiable history of acutue mental illness is that an LBS delusion?

Of course none of us is going to warmly welcome the OP, but I don't think the fact that our spouse is having an affair necessarily means that we cannot make a judgement about either our spouse or the OP. Even people who are paranoid are sometimes right! I

I am prepared to listen to well reasoned arguments, and evidence. I do read widely, and for the first 6 months after my h left didn't believe in MLC either. Thought it was an excuse for bad behaviour!!

[goal]

Braveheart,

I agree with you 100 percent on the no contact comment. It is the only thing that works for me. No matter what I do, H finds something negative about it.

[inmyplace]

angelica,

I read DB seven years ago and I read it numerous times. I know what it is.

MLC is MLC. (When I need to read about MLC, I read Conway.)
DB is DB.

And if you read Michele, the principles of DB apply in any situations, MLC being one of them. DB tell you that you can't do anything about what someone else is doing and to do what you control. She tells us to take care of the things we can control. This applies when there is an MLC spouse. We also get techniques. If someone is in MLC, we know DB tells us they have to go through it. But we also know that it tells us how to cope. You can have DBing without MLC or with MLC.

You said:

If someone is on medication for being bi-polar, or has an independently verifiable history of acutue mental illness is that an LBS delusion?

I never said there were not OM/OW who didn't suffer from mental illness. But if you are going to suggest high number of OW/OM are suffering mental illness, I want to see the numbers. And I know quite a few people from this board who take meds, so it isn't only OM/OW and spouses who have mental illnesses. But of one thing I am sure, I don't know anyone on this board who can make a schizophrenia or bi-polar diagnosis.

Even people who are paranoid are sometimes right!

Yes. Sometimes.

But to suggest that you can't DB because of MLC is wrong. People can and do go through mlc w/o blowing up peoples lives around them. On this board they label it mlc because they have to give that horrible behavior a name. This is not to say there is no MLC. But the notion that people are not responsible for their bad behavior in the name of MLC is a cop out. The proponents of MLC are actually giving them the excuse you said it was before you believed in it. And then you blame the OM/OW.

Yes, there is MLC. No, not every case is MLC.

Now, as you say, I am willing to listen to well-reasoned arguments. I have challenged a number of assertions in my days coming to this board (and could challenge many more). I have done it with facts, figures, and references. I have also done it with a dictionary. I can never figure out why my challenges. All I can figure is it doesn't fit the story that the MLC team here wants to write.

I am all about getting the right message out. Because when bogus claims are made, it lessens everyone's ability to find the right solution.

IMP

[forward]

FYI: In my situation, we are not talking about someone w/mild mental illness. Anorexic and UNTREATED bipolar. Couseling center refused her for her lack of cooperation at one point. In and out of institutions. Suicide attempts. BP is NOT mild from what I understand. (I have a good friend who is BP and the way H talked about OW makes friend look mild.)

What concerns me is that I suspect H lets her into the house. The other concern I have is that her extended family is "out to get" her.

The other stupid thing I think H might try to do is teach her to drive. This worries me because the LAST thing I need is to wind up with a lawsuit from H allowing her to drive his car.

DB counselor suggested mediation as a possible option. I like the idea. The next time we reach an impasse, that's the idea I will present. And frankly, it worries me enough that I think I will file LS if he refuses to go.

[celestial]

Breton

Good decision. Go as soon as possible, for your peace of mind. You should also see about having some kind of protection from H and ow being able to be in your home. You don`t go into their home, he shouldn`t have the pleasure of coming and going when he pleases, since that is no longer his home. His choice.

You`re being very brave and I`m proud of you.

Celestial

[forward]

Celestial: H cannot come and go as he pleases--fortunately I got that taken care of long ago. I want D1 to be able to be here and have some additional security in having one home at this point in her life.

I don't mind H in home--it is OW in home that I do not want. And I do not want H taking advantage of things in the home that I pay for.

I'm debating how I feel about approaching the subject of mediation. I think I will bring it up the next time H charges at me.

I've noticed that any time I voice an opinion on the care of D1, H rolls his eyes as if I am an idiot. Next time I am going to call him on it.

Makes me realize he is not even close to being through with things. Obviously I am just clueless.

[inmyplace]

breton,

Please don't interpret my words to mean that it doesn't happen. I have always thought you had much more info about her where as many other simply make the claim.

Now the car. If you don't want that exposure, it is up to you to confront the situation. You gave the solution, i.e. mediation, then LS if necessary. You have to protect yourself.

Good luck.

IMP

[celestial]

H cannot come and go as he pleases--fortunately I got that taken care of long ago

Bravo for you!!!

don't mind H in home--it is OW in home that I do not want

Does H know you feel this way?

Do speak your mind when the time comes, but remember to keep your cool, your dealing with an H who is so very lost right now. Try not to get into anything with him, just set some boundaries and protect yourself financially.

Makes me realize he is not even close to being through with things

He has a long way to go.

Celestial