Beginning to piece or something else?

[lt722]

Hi all -

It's been awhile since I've checked in here and I wanted to see if someone could provide a little feedback on my situation: (thanks in advance!!! )

[*]Husband left in Jan. 2005 and stated that he needed space and was confused.
[*]No legal separation ever filed during this time.
[*]Found out that husband began a PA with a 21 yo girl when he was 29 (in Jan. 2007), but don't think it was PA until he left... EA at the min. before then for possible a few months.
[*]H would contact me every so often during this time, all the while maintaining that he was confused and not sure about us staying together. I was pretty clingy during the first year of separation, so H usually took sweet time when responding to me.
[*]I finally realized how clingy I was and really detached 12/06 after an upsetting conversation where H told me to move on and he couldn't do this anymore and "who wants to be with someone that is not divorced" (I assumed that our relationship was getting in the way...). At that point, I thought I would never hear from H again. I also found a MySpace page on the internet w/ H discussing that he was "in a relationship" and it was referring to OW (or other girl!). Tons of ooey, gooey talk back and forth between their pages... very high school sounding!
[*]Feb. 2007, H turned 30 and I never contacted him. Also, the MySpace page referenced that OG was planning a party for H's 30th birthday! After two looks at those pages, I vowed to never go back and look again... and I didn't!
[*]The first week of March of this year... after I had talked w/ Laurie (DB Coach Extraordinaire!), I decided to make 1 contact w/ H and texted him and said hello! [*]To my surprise, H responded immediately (which he had never done since our separation. He said hello back and wanted to know how I was doing. We spent the next 3-4 hours of that day texting back and forth, neutral things about job, family, etc. H was making jokes and such. H then asked if I wanted to see him and said I could come over to apartment. I told him I didn't know if that was such a good idea if he still had "girlfriend." He replied: "NO GIRLFRIEND!" I went to see him that night and we ended up having sex. [*]Fast forward to today: this has been the situation since the first of March and gradually we have become more and more close, but never ANY discussion of our R. It's almost like we are pretty good friends (gets better each week) and he is telling me more of his fears, worries, happy things, etc. I have made sure to never say anything that sounds anything close to R talk. We just laugh and often have sex. We have never gone on an actual "date" though and it has always been w/ me meeting him at his house. (I'm living w/ my parents at the moment to save some $). [*]It really seems that we are getting closer each time and he is more comfortable w/ me. He does make comments like: "where were you when you said you weren't home the other night" or "what friends did you go to dinner with?" Those seem to be the most probing questions he asks of me and he seems relieved when I say "some of my girlfriends." If I'm still vague in my response, he will usually ask me again. [*]The concerns I have are: He suffers from a long history of depression and life purpose, career have always been stumbling blocks for him. He usually makes statements that he "needs to do this alone" but then will ask me or tell me about something he is struggling with. What do you think about continuing to have sex even though we are not talking about R, but seem to be becoming closer friends? So far, I have rationalized it that it seems to be bringing us closer, lowering his walls and each week, we seem a little closer, he is making more and more eye contact and even showing concern about my safety (I have a sometime unsafe job) = these are all new since the separation. [*]To those that have gone through separation, does this seem par for the course (i.e. what I described above)? It almost seems like H is slowly trying us on for size and that b/c I am giving absolutely no pressure, he is becoming more comfortable. Am I imagining this?
[*]Any suggestions on goals for my situation? I feel like this time has been working in that we seem to be closer each week (he contacts me (always!) at least 1x a week to see if I want to come over and then sometimes just to say hello. Do I need to change a little something to avoid staying in this same pattern or not? What do you think?

Any feedback is appreciated and I'm sorry this is so long! I really tried to keep it brief! Promise!

[ediemarie]

Hi LT -

Good to see that you are still working at this - I give you credit. You have been through a lot!!

hmm...LT...it looks like there are some postives in your situation
1) No OW
2) he's willing to do things with you
3) He misses you when you're not together
4) He doesn't *like* the idea of you seeing someone else
5) he opens up to you and speaks about his feelings about "stuff"
I can see why you have hope.

But, there are some read flags flying around here, too:
1) Though he is your husband, you are having an intimate relationship with someone that you really don't have an R with. Are you comfortable with this? Based on your post, I don't think you are. The very fact that you have asked the question leads me to believe that you have a problem with this but think you have to do it to maintain any R with him. This is not healthy for you! YOU DESERVE THE COMMITMENT FROM HIM.

2) Are you OK with someone "trying you on for size"? I'll say it again, YOU DESERVE THE COMMITMENT FROM HIM.

3) Not only do you deserve the commitment, you deserve an explanation, an apology, a remorseful attitude, a plan for the future, common understanding of R goals, an actual date, him to buy you dinner - and that is just on Day 1 of him being back in your life. On Day 2 you deserve that and action behind his words.

Sweetie, don't sell yourself short. You deserve to be loved, not used and the red flags that are flying around are huge. I know that you want to ride this tide of hope and good times, but is that your ultimate goal? Is your ultimate goal to establish a loving marriage? Is this going to get you there?

I think there are many postive signs here and he may just come around soon enough. I don't think at this point there is anything wrong with you asking what his intentions are. As a matter of fact, you should probably do it sooner than later. How much more attached are you becoming by having this kind of relationship? You don't know where his head is at. I'm not saying to have a long drawn out conversation about your R or about the problems, necessarily, just ask him what his intentions with you are - isn't that what you would ask any other guy that was treating you like this?

I hope this helps. I don't mean to be harsh, it would just really suck if you got wound up in this only to be heartbroken again.

((((((((LT))))))))

Em

[lt722]

Hi Ediemarie -

Thank you so much for your response and no, I did not take any of it as being harsh at all. I really want honest feedback and I definitely appreciated your words.

) Though he is your husband, you are having an intimate relationship with someone that you really don't have an R with. Are you comfortable with this? Based on your post, I don't think you are. The very fact that you have asked the question leads me to believe that you have a problem with this but think you have to do it to maintain any R with him. This is not healthy for you! YOU DESERVE THE COMMITMENT FROM HIM.

Yes, I have had major questions around this area. Here is where I was thinking in continuing this aspect w/o the commitment. Michelle talks about having sex w/ the WAS and she said that it can often bring the estranged couple closer together (even w/o the commitment), but that if you feel like you are not ok w/ this, then not to do it. Also, I didn't mention this above, but sex was a problem w/ us before b/c I worked a lot and we did not have sex as much as we would both like. So as things have progressed over the last few months, I have thought, "ok, he talked to me more this time than before, so maybe this is working".... but I would never do this w/ another person, so this has been going through my mind. I think I decided to finally post this situation, b/c I feel like we have been proceeding like this long enough and it has made me wonder if we will stay in this cycle and never move to the next step (or preferably, the first step!) --- the commitment!

) Are you OK with someone "trying you on for size"? I'll say it again, YOU DESERVE THE COMMITMENT FROM HIM.

No, I agree! I have read though through this site and other places, that the WAS will sort of test the waters, sometimes for quite awhile b/c they may not be quite be sure of their true feelings, especiallly after separation. So, in reading about that, I have thought that this may be what is happening here... but then I don't know for sure b/c we haven't actually talked about that part.

) Not only do you deserve the commitment, you deserve an explanation, an apology, a remorseful attitude, a plan for the future, common understanding of R goals, an actual date, him to buy you dinner - and that is just on Day 1 of him being back in your life. On Day 2 you deserve that and action behind his words.

When reading DB reconcilliation stories throughout this site, most everyone always credits not bringing up the R talk and letting the WAS initiate this discussion. Also, I read that you may not always get the apology right away or a real explanation of what happened to the R in the first place. Sooo... when taking all of that into account, I'm thinking "I'm decreasing his pressure by reminding him of why we came together in the first place, w/o further pressure from me." Also, we were best friends for 3 years before we ever dated (we've been together as friends and a couple for 16 years), so I'm 'thinking' that I'm rekindling that friendship (of course we never had sex and were married when we were friends!!), so maybe this is a good thing....

Hopefully, now you can see why I am so confused after reading the above. I'm trying to take all of the suggestions, advice and experience from so many areas and trying to apply it here. Also, b/c I finally seem to have him pursuing me (more), I'm thinking I shouldn't mess w/ anything... so basically I'm afraid to take that next step.

I really appreciate your further help here.... what I'm thinking I will do is to ask "what are your thoughts on what is going on here with us?" And then see where things go w/ that. Strangely enough, it has occurred to me a couple of times that he might even think that I don't want more of a relationship w/ him and just want things to stay as they are. That sounds weird, but he made some interesting comments to me when he texted me last week: (something like this...)

Me: I can't come over until after 8:30 pm b/c I have plans until then.
H: Oh, you sound too busy.
Me: No, just plans until then.
H: So were are you going until then?
Me: Not 100 % sure exactly, somewhere w/ friends.
H: Oh
H: Well, I may not be here afterall at 8:30 pm either
Me: Oh, I hope so!
H: Why?
Me: What do you mean?
H: Why do you hope so?
Me: You are being silly, of course it's b/c I enjoy seeing you!
H: Why?
Me: Are you kidding with me or serious?
H: Oh, I'm just kidding you!
Me: Good! B/c I hope you know I wanted to see you!

Later on, I asked him if he was joking or serious and he said "oh, I was just joking around with you." It seems like he may want to talk to me about R (or maybe my imagination) and he is afraid for some reason.

Sorry to seem as if I'm making excuses for my situation b/c I'm definitely not intentionally trying to go there... just apparently very dense!

Thanks for your help!

[ediemarie]

Look, I don't want to give the impression that I know exactly what to do in this sitch, I don't. My situation certainly isn't stellar, but it is looking up. I would just encourage you to really figure out what you want (in terms of your marriage) and then take steps to get there.

Your situation is missing goals and boundaries. I feel like you are all over the place. You are taking advice from any source in a willy-nilly sort of style and are applying it to fit your sitch in a positive manner. That's not reality. Now that you have your H's attention you can begin to apply the strategies in DR/DB. Step 1 is to think with a beginners mind and set some goals. Do that. Perhaps a good place to start in thinking about that is by determining what your ideal marriage is - what does that look like? Maybe list 5 top things you want in your marriage. Now, set some goals to begin to reach those top 5 things. Guaranteed there are things you could do there that focus on you.

IMO, one could justify any action he/she takes in his/her life by gathering opinions from various sources. I feel like you are having sex with your H because you feel it is the only R you CAN have with him, because it is the only R he is offering you. I don't believe that you are having sex with your H because Michelle Warner Davis said it was ok. It appears you are doing it because you desperately want an R with this man. And you don't feel ok with it - that's where the boundaries come in. If you are uncomfortable with it, don't do it. It seems as if your H has set you up as his "friend with benefits" rather than treating you with the utmost respect. I do think it's a positive sign that you are having sex in that this was a problem in your marriage, but keep in mind that some men have a difficult time having sex in the marriage, but no problem having it outside the marriage (commitment issues, and my H has that EXACT problem). But, let me say that if you are OK with how things are going right now, then there is no better person to have sex with then your h. I just get the impression that you aren't happy with this.

I hear you about the R talk and generally I agree with DR/DB about not bringing it up. In my sitch, I don't bring it up. Things are tenuous right now between H and I, to say the least. BUT, he is sleeping at home in our bed and so am I. We still have a place together, he claims to have stopped seeing OW, he's working on his issues (I see it daily), he is doing kind and considerate things for me, he is saying kind things, he really is being loving - I don't want to push him away and make him feel like what he is doing isn't enough so I don't bring up the R. But from time to time he does. And when he does I talk with him about it. The difference is that I don't really feel like I'm being mistreated by him. I think you feel like you are being mistreated by your H. I don't think that you should have a full blown R talk with him, as I said in post 1. I think he would freak out and bail, but I do think it's ok for you to ask "what are your thoughts on what is going on here with us?" Just be prepared for him to say "I don't know, I don't really think about it. I'm happy doing what we're doing." Are you ok with hearing that? If so or if not, how are you going to react then?

Lastly, take your new R slowly - really slowly. I mean imagine slow and then slow it down some more. I can't believe how slowly things are moving with my H and I and yet I still feel at times that it is too fast. You can never observe enough or listen enough - truly listen to his words and deeds - what message is he sending? Is it one you want to receive?

The Piecing road is longer than you would think...

EM