That's some story. I don't think I'd have the wherewithall to kick cac out of bed for not showering LOL! But I took GGB's suggestion yesterday and invited cac to join me in the shower last night, and that worked out well.
About the smoking, I would say that cac never realized how much it bothered me because I never told him. I didn't know how to tell him without hurting his feelings. I assumed it would hurt his feelings, but in reality it would have hurt them a lot less if I had been honest, instead of just rejecting his advances. Over the last few years we've had some honest talks about my feelings on the smoking issue and I think we're in a better place about it.
I suspect that I will see my drive increase if I persist. And you're right about youth -- it is often wasted on the young. I think I read on this BB that the brain is the most important sex organ in the body and that makes a lot of sense to me as I get older. I guess learning how to love in the PT language is like learning a foreign language -- the more immersed you are in it, the better and faster you learn it.
I agree that I need to stop worrying about cac. A recent thread (was it Corri's) about women who tend to parent their Hs really struck home. I need to stop parenting cac, stop worrying about his reaction to my feelings, just see him as an adult who is perfectly capable of dealing with his own feelings and reactions to mine. I am continuing to write my thoughts on the BB for that reason.
BTW, I wanted to tell you that I get a kick out of reading your British colloquialisms!
My mother told me years ago that I made a good choice marrying cac because most men would not be able to deal with me. Not sure if I should have taken that as a compliment or a criticism. My type 4 self sort of gets a kick out of being different than most women.
I know you have complained that CAC is way to intellectual and analytical, that he is out of touch with his emotions and not impulsive enough, but I tell ya, after reading through your last few posts, the line between you two is starting to blur.
How so? I don't think I see it, so can you give some examples?
In some ways I think you are your own worst enemy.
Yes, I'm sure this is true. My father used to bumble that and declare that he was his worst own enemy.
I can’t even imagine the internal conversations you must have with yourself.
It's exhausting. Constant loop playing in my head. I took a mind/body relaxation class for infertility patients at the Mind/Body Institute (Herbert Benson) and it was extremely difficult to shut off the internal feedback. I could do it fairly well during the group meditations, but during the rest of the week when I was supposed to listen to tapes I sometimes couldn't do it. Letting my thoughts go was nearly impossible for me.
I think a lot of what Lil has discussed concerning the work of Byron Katie may be helpful for you.
I do plan to look at that again.
I have noticed that my wife can flip in and out of this extra sensory mode, depending on the situation. She seems to use it as an excuse to back off situations when intimacy is too much. For instance, she claims that she does not like to French kiss because she can’t breath. But she breathes fine at other times, and she is not a mouth breather. I think this is just a deflection.
Could be. I believe that my sensory issues are fairly consistent regardless of what I'm doing. What I got from reading the HSP books is to find ways to deal with the issues. Workarounds if you will. In some cases, maybe we need to try to desensitize. But if you do not have these sensitivies to taste, smell, bright lights, noise, etc. you probably just wouldn't understand. I always am amazed to see people out in the sun without sunglasses. I don't know how they can stand it, but it doesn't bother them. I OTOH wear sunglasses AND try to stand/sit facing away from the sun. That's my workaround that enables me to enjoy being outdoors.
Rather than focus on how good sex feels, she focuses on the pillow or something as a reason why she can’t focus on an O. She wants the O and the sensations of sex, but she is not comfortable with the vulnerability that comes with sex. She has a hard time opening up and allowing herself to connect emotionally. That is scary for her. That would mean dropping her long standing resentments. That would mean giving up the one up position she likes to have. That would mean reliving her FOO.
There may be truth to that, and of course, I know next to nothing about your wife. But, again, when you have sensory issues, they can be extremely distracting. I have struggled with this.
But all this will bring you two closer. Be sure that in striving for what you state that you are not put off by the other things that with them. To feel loved and help CAC feel loved means becoming vulnerable. IT means dropping excuses and deflections. It means purposefully pushing aside and blocking out things you have used in the past to put up emotional defenses, including overcoming any sensory issues, at least to the extent you can.
I didn't actually say that I wanted to feel loved through sex. My LL isn't PT. I do know that a good sex life will bring us closer. I have seen the evidence of it.
You keep writing about excuses and deflections and I really don't see where I am doing that. I am trying to open up my mind to the possibilities. I will make plenty of mistakes along the way. I have a highly sensitive nervous system and along with that comes the sensory issues. HSPs get overwhelmed more easily than non-HSPs. cac is an HSP and he has his own issues, crowds, being one example. I think that is part of what brought us together. I think it is one way that we can learn to be more empathetic toward each other, and I think we have done that already.
I would guess you had the same sensory issues then that you do now, perhaps even more so.
I think they are pretty much the same. The other laundry list was the classic LD wife stuff -- dishes, state of the house, that sort of thing.
How were you able to overcome his smoking then but you cannot do so now?
I wasn't really. He wrote here that our sex life wasn't stellar even during the dating phase. I think it's possible that the smoking had a little less of an effect on me then because of the newness. But it has always been an issue.
How much of the repulsion you feel now is based on his smoking and how much could be wrapped up in other things, like resentment? Nothing wrong with that, you have a right to be resentful, but knowing it is a part of the mix can help you to direct it in an appropriate way and at the appropriate times.
Repulsion is such a negative word. I don't feel repulsion for anything but the cigarettes. I have lingering resentments, yes. I haven't figured out how to resolve them. I'm working on it.
How so? I don't think I see it, so can you give some examples?
How about this for starters….
So, I'll say it. It takes work. Mental effort. Switching of gears. Letting go of worries. Switching of hats. Sometimes I can do it, and sometimes I can't. It depends on a whole bunch of factors including time of the month, time of the day (I am not a night person), how long it's been since I got QT, how long it's been since my last argument with cac, how my day went with S4, smells and other sensory issues, and so on.
Actually, I sometimes worry that I can't compete with myself, the self I am when I'm ovulating. That I set the bar based on how I am during ovulation and then I don't measure up the rest of the month.
I do not have confidence in my abilities to feel sexual on demand. It is not something I feel all day long like many of you. It is here and there, fleeting, appearing in certain situations, disappearing in others. Again, it depends on many factors like those I listed above.
It's exhausting. Constant loop playing in my head. I took a mind/body relaxation class for infertility patients at the Mind/Body Institute (Herbert Benson) and it was extremely difficult to shut off the internal feedback. I could do it fairly well during the group meditations, but during the rest of the week when I was supposed to listen to tapes I sometimes couldn't do it. Letting my thoughts go was nearly impossible for me.
The panicky feelings set in because I need to state to him that I desire sex with him before we're even in bed, so that he'll take a shower. There is nothing spontaneous about it. I've made a commitment. So I ask him to take a shower and he does and then he comes to bed assuming we will have sex. I go to bed thinking I want to have sex, but a little nervous because I'm unsure if I can actually pull it off. Why?
Now I'm faced with a choice. I can try to push these thoughts from my mind, but they are so darned persistent. I could fake it, but I'm not a very good actress and it just seems wrong. He becomes aware of a change in me and wonders what is happening. He asks me if I'm not really interested or would rather go to sleep. I can't tell him I'm not interested. That's not fair. I told him earlier that I wanted to have sex and now I'm saying that I don't. WTF? He's now being nice about it and that almost makes it worse. What the he11 is the matter with me?
Unless I misread, those are all examples of conversations you are having with yourself, right? They do not involve CAC in anyway that I can tell. They may center around him in some way, but they do not directly involve him. Whatever is driving them, your emotions, your anxiety or whatever, they all seem to be intellectual conversations in your own head. Where does all this mountain of fear, anxiety and self doubt come from???
I think you are on the right track in trying to boost your own self esteem and to stop comparing yourself to others. You have nothing to feel self conscious about. You may be different from others, but then aren’t we all You are you, just like the rest of us. Stop worrying about what others think. Accept yourself so others can accept you too. Yep, Byron Katie should help.
You keep writing about excuses and deflections and I really don't see where I am doing that. I am trying to open up my mind to the possibilities.
And your positive attitude comes through, so I would think CAC should see it too. I don’t see you making deflections or excuses with CAC, I see you making them more with yourself. That’s why I think you are your own worst enemy. Accept yourself. An self conscious beta male is not attractive to women. A self conscious, insecure woman does not put off the sexual vibes that turn men on either, so stop worrying and creating your own self consciousness! Corri or others has a lot more to offer in this area than I ever could.
Internal conversations were a source of uncounted anxiety for me until just recently. Actually the discovery of the enneagram sites through some of your postings led me to realize this was something to be, if not completely curtailed, then at least gotten control of. I used to lie in bed sometimes for hours before sleep came, carrying on pointless, unproductive fantasies or worries. I think just the awareness of this trait has helped me stop these conversations.
Now, when I lay down to sleep, I try to use all of my senses to bring myself into my immediate physical existence. I listen to every sound, smell every smell, notice the amount of or lack of light outside my closed eyelids, feel the sheets against my skin, etc. I am getting better and better at falling asleep within 10-15 mins this way.
As I have been trying to apply this same technique in my waking hours (just sensing, and not conversing in my head) I am constantly amazed at the difference it has made in my attitude and awareness.
LM
Last edited by LoveMatters; 08/17/0711:59 PM.
LM
Lucky me, I could have been someone else FOREVER! Whew, that was close!
My type 4 self sort of gets a kick out of being different than most women.