Yes, I totally agree that I am fortunate my H is going for counselling - however, that was a "condition" that was established at the time he went on AD for the depression. Now he is talking about "weening" himself off them. And, I can tell you right now, if he goes off them completely, I will no longer be in this M. That is the primary reason the second A happened. He went off the AD, fell back into a deep depression and it happened all over again.
I assume you have told him this in no uncertain terms, right? Why didn’t you leave him the first time he went of ADs, before the second affair? Why did you enable him at that time?
Resentment? - Yes, there is no doubt I probably harboured quite a bit for a long time, particularly after the first A, but I truly believe I have let that go.
If you really let this go, I wouldn’t be picking it up on an impersonal BB.
We were both pleased with both counsellors (a rare exception to the rule I suppose) but I truly believe we exhausted their expertise and I, in particular, have felt in the last couple of sessions that my H needed to see someone one-on-one to address his particular avoidance issues. I do not necessarily believe a rest period would be a good thing for my H. He has a tendancy to fall right back into his old ways pretty quickly when allowed to "rest". We have made progress (much to my H's denial of that) and I am not about to let it slip away and have to start all over again (aside from the fact, this has cost us a fortune we don't have)
I completely agree with you here. But sometimes a little crack in the armor is all a good counselor needs to takes things to the next level, so I wouldn’t think the counselor has reach the end of his abilities, but that your H has placed a roadblock that precludes the counselor from using his full abilities.
Has your H read any self help books?
Our ST asked me this some time ago (and I wasn't allowed to say "because I love him") and there isn't one particular reason, I have a number of them, some to do with values and morals and others to do with my vulnerabilities. I am a very nurturing person by nature, I don't find it difficult or an effort to be that way with anyone (my H comments on it all the time). However, I do know part of what I struggle with is from my childhood and how "nothing was ever good enough" for my mother. I KNOW this about myself and I have done a lot of work to overcome this barrier.
[b]What did I gain by staying - keeping my best friend.
You do know this is an enmeshed type of reasoning, don’t you. As soon as he takes away his commitment to the friendship, what do you have left except a lot of panic?
As a matter of fact, if there was one thing I would have to pick that started to turn things around for us was when I said "regardless of what happens between us, will you still be my friend". He just sat there and we have talked about that question, with and without the MC, and he said it was a real changing moment in his mind. For the first time he realized I was not only his wife, but also his friend and he said "I wouldn't treat my friend like that, why am I treating my wife like that".
Do you see how your enmeshing statement was very comforting to him. This is what he really wants from you, though admitting to such would be a sign of weakness, not manly, shameful, etc.
There was no limitations/restrictions on his "family unit" - he did what he wanted, regardless of what his parents thought. I won't say he was a difficult child but his growing up with a little out of the norm and didn't leave much room for problems. The "problems" started when he was in his 20's. He says his life was happy "until I started getting involved with women" - you can make your own assumptions from there
This is the hardest part of your response for me to swallow. Maybe I read this wrong, but it sounds a lot like either you or he is minimizing, or denying, what went on in his childhood. But then again, if your H has had problems getting in touch with his feelings, it makes PERFECT sense that he is out of touch with his FOO. In fact, I’m willing to bet that he does not even accurately remember his childhood, but instead has idealized it in his mind to recall growing up as “normal.” The very fact that he is so messed up means only one of two things – he has a significant personality disorder that prevents his engagement with people in a “normal” way (which is maybe why he takes ADs?), or he was severely affected by his FOO. There is no other explanation. If it isn’t the former, it has to be the latter. This might be the best place for him to get in touch with his emotions because it is likely the reason for his blocking his emotions.
Have you read anything on narcissism and how it occurs in the family, how it is passed on through generations, and how it is usually induced by environment rather than genetics? In other words, you get it from your parents. This can occur even if the parents are not overtly narcissistic. There are lots of ways a child to come to focus on his/her needs only and block empathy toward others.
He has NEVER had a wife/gf that was a friend and a sexual partner. It was either one or the other. This R is the first one that has both and he doesn't know how to combine the two. That is the primary thing we are dealing with
Maybe. I wonder if it is only a symptom of deeper problems, especially like his FOO. Treating the symptoms won’t get you anywhere.
He does not acknowledge/admit to any fears or vulnerability. He says there is nothing wrong with him, his emotions are what I see and he is hiding nothing. How do you get through that? I bet if you asked my H (because he has told oodles of people) he would say I was the most compassionate person he knows. As a matter of fact he even told the MC one day that he doesn't know how I live with him because he would find it extremely frustrating living with someone like him.
Yep, sort of ties in with my idea that he is in denial of his FOO and that a lot more sh*t happen back then than he is willing to admit or remember. It can also be that he recalls his childhood as he saw it through heavily distorted filters, and if he could re-examine his youth from a healthier viewpoint, he might come to see where his parents did not always protect him as he wanted, and how he built up a lot of anger and resentment that he then learned to stuff and deny.
We BOTH have a problem with always wanting to be "right" and I think most people do.
OK, I have my hypothesis on why he needs to be right. What is your reason?
No, it should not be difficult to express my emotions to my H and I have improved on that 110% BUT, when you express your emotions and get shot down, it isn't exactly encouraging is it? But, regardless of his "attacks" I have been following through with the MC suggestions and voicing my feelings regardless of whether he wants to hear them or not - is it working? Who's to say because I don't get much in the way of positive feedback (and I don't yell and scream or use "you" - I strictly use "I" scenarios)
Do you tell you H VERY SPECIFICALLY how this or that particular statement or action hurt your feelings, how it made you abandoned, fearful, whatever? It may sound almost childish to have to do this, but a traumatized, shut down person like your H truly does not get it. Showing your pain very explicitly, holding it up for him to see and feel with help him get in touch with his own feelings.
I suspect he was able to be much more sympathetic with you kids when they were small. So he does have some capacity for empathy in him. He is choosing to block it. He may not be fully aware that you feel pain like your kids would. Check out the book “You Don’t Have to Take it Anymore” by Steven Stosny. He explains why traditional marriage counseling and anger management classes do not work, how those approaches put the man on the spot, attack his ego, and make him even more defensive. His suggestion is to use compassion. It takes a really big person to be able to do this.
