Perhaps what is needed is for CAC to step up to a more assertive, alpha male role and for you to let go of your control and allow him to exert that dominance and show his desire in the way that the manly CAC wants to. I can see where the man must do MOST of the taking charge in sex. Is it wrong in the Deida world to want the woman to initiate some of the time, or should it always be the man?
I have the impression that HD people, well men anyway, are pretty much ready for sex pretty much all the time. It's like you just switch a flip and bingo! 0-60 in an instant. It's always there whenever you need it. We don't even need to flip a switch, we are in the sex mode 24/7. I have to WORK at NOT thinking in sexual terms. This is why being in a SSM is uncomfortable for me. We are forced to live more towards the LD lifestyle, and the LD lifestyle is WORK not play, the LD lifestyle really is not much fun.
Do you like the feeling of being sexually desired by your husband?
Ok Cemar - you are in the sex mode 24/7 but consider this ...
Your W (and lots of other spouses, including my H), on the other hand are NOT in the sex mode 24/7. As a matter of fact, they don't even think about it. To them it's something they have to plan for, like going on a trip. It doesn't even enter their minds when they go to bed, it's just another part of their day. My H for instance, doesn't even think about sex or anything to do with intimacy unless I bring up the subject and we actually talk about it (which usually goes no where anyway, but that's another whole thread)
So, if this is something they NEVER think about, can you really expect that they would spontaneously feel like having sex. It's not that they don't want to, they just don't think about it and need to be more consciously aware of it before they can turn themselves on to the thought (and action)
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
What’s your point? If you want me to say that your wife should step up and give you love, compassion, that she should initiate more or even all the time, will that make a difference? Will it help if I tell you that you are completely right in everything you say and your wife is completely wrong? Does that make you feel better? What’s your point?
I can totally relate to what you are saying. My H is a smoker too, and like you I guess I assumed he would give up. He hasn't.
I totally agree with you about getting turned off by a stinky person and then you are in a bind because if he stinks and you say something that will put him right out of the mood. I think you should just insist that he showers and brushes his teeth every night before bed. Any time he rolls into bed without bothering, just kick him out or go and sleep in the spare room.
Last Xmas eve my H came to bed very late as we had stayed up half the night wrapping presents. He came up at about 2am absolutely reeking of alcohol, cigarettes and heavy BO and suddenly he was all over me. I asked him to go and take a shower if he wanted to do that and he flew into a high dudgeon and wound up lying naked on the cold floor because I wouldn't let him into bed until he washed. I ignored him. After half an hour I told him to get back in bed before he caught his death of cold and we went to sleep. The next morning I related this story to his parents and brother who were staying for Xmas - that may seem cruel but I had to do it because I knew that otherwise he would keep ahold of his view that I had cruelly kicked him out of bed and refused his amourous advances. Everyone had good laugh about it and I remember saying something about being a martyr to his stinky armpits and his dad saying 'funny thats what says'. I think it helped him not take the whole episode personally.
One of the things about not being sure of your SD is as you describe you have a fear of getting into something you can't finish. In a funny kind of way it is a little like the smoker trying to give up they don't trust themselves without the nicotine - same way you don't trust yourself without the ovulation hormones. I wouldn't be so sure that your SD was higher when you were younger. I think you will crack this and you might be surprised to find your SD just getting higher and higher. Mine has certainly just climbed pretty much steadily as I've got older and I know plenty of other women that feel the same way. It has more to do with knowing more and more about what kinds of fun there is to be had than about hormones. When you are young you have a lot of energy. In my career I used to work all hours and pull off all kinds of feats by sheer effort and sometimes staying up all night. Now I have a lot of experience and a lot of smarts. I can do a really super job with about half the work I would have put in at 25. I feel like sex is the same, when I was young I was more hormonal and more energetic but I didn't really have a clue what I was doing. Now I'm less hormonal and often wiped out by a hard day at work and a busy evening with the kids but I understand the landscape of the sexual act so much better and with little effort I can get good things happening. Some of the time you are flying blind with it, no real strong feelings of desire, fear that the true LD feelings will kick in and knock you off your game. When that happens to me I either put the ball firmly in H's court or I just say 'lets have a quickie' and maybe just give him a bj. Or else I just let the power of my imagination take over. I am not above imagining I am with someone else entirely if I haven't connected well with my H that day, just let myself think back over old boyfriends or that cute guy that smiled at me in the deli.
One of the things to do is free yourself up from worrying about Cac. Don't worry if you go off the boil and he says what's up. Just say 'I dunno, just went off the boil, no reason'. If he takes if personally that's his issue not yours.
There have been many times in the past when I would go with the flow when not feeling in the mood, and I would end up feeling violated. Now I never feel that way, I'm not quite sure how that happened. I think I got past worrying about telling him I didn't want to. If he didn't like it when I said that then tough. So now I feel comfortable telling him if I don't want to, even right in the middle of it, it doesn't really happen anymore. I'm no longer feeling I HAVE to because I've started so that's one less thing to worry about which makes it easier to just enjoy it.
Sorry this has turned into a bit of a ramble, but so much of what you said rang true with me.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I agree, Heywyre. I definitely think about sex more than I used to, but it's not 24/7. When I read or see something that makes me think of sex, I'm more likely to explore my thoughts and maybe imagine doing it with cac. Reading this board helps me keep sex in my thoughts more often. It helps me feel more sexual and desire sex with him more often than I used to. But it's still not just *there*. I don't typically have spontaneous thoughts of sex at the grocery store or the playground, but I would if I walked past the lingerie department at Macy's or drove past an adult video store.
Mrs. Cac I am a classic Highly Sensitive Person (sorry Lou, but it's true )..............I *used to* be very sensitive to surroundings and typically had a laundry list of things that had to be done or in place or what have you in order to have sex. I know that was frustrating for Cac, because the list was always changing. I'm sure some of you men can relate.
I can relate. Early in the M, BB's lists were short, mine were short. BB's lists got way too long so now I try to leave her out of the equation when I can. Some times because I want to respect her feelings. Some times because I don't want to play the games anymore. There is taking a break and there is giving up. I do some of each.
Reading your list, I will say it was stranger than BB's. I am enlightened to hear your list is getting shorter.
What I was asking is if it is wrong for a Deiad man to think that his wife should be the initiator, or maybe he should just always PLAN on being the initiator and have no problems with that.
I know you have complained that CAC is way to intellectual and analytical, that he is out of touch with his emotions and not impulsive enough, but I tell ya, after reading through your last few posts, the line between you two is starting to blur.
In some ways I think you are your own worst enemy. I can’t even imagine the internal conversations you must have with yourself. I think a lot of what Lil has discussed concerning the work of Byron Katie may be helpful for you.
The closest I think I have come to this is on the tennis court, believe it or not. In high school I would get myself into a mess and choke up in a match. I was trying too hard and questioning every mis-hit. That only led to more mis-hits and more internal talk on what to do and not do, how to swing, how to position myself, how to step into the shot, etc, etc, etc. What I did not know at the time was that the best thing to do is not talk at all. Just let my body take over and perform the motions I had trained it to do. Byron Katie emphasizes this very same thing. Stanley Block takes a similar approach in “Come to Your Senses: Demystifying the Mind Body Connection.”
Actually, I sometimes worry that I can't compete with myself, the self I am when I'm ovulating. That I set the bar based on how I am during ovulation and then I don't measure up the rest of the month.
I do not have confidence in my abilities to feel sexual on demand. It is not something I feel all day long like many of you. It is here and there, fleeting, appearing in certain situations, disappearing in others. Again, it depends on many factors like those I listed above.
I can understand this, and I think CAC can too. But in all honesty, I think it will be hard for either of us to know what to do to help you, other than be empathic. A lot of this is your internal battle. The only thing I would do if I were in CAC’s shoes would be to help you push the envelope of your sexual awareness and help you build your confidence in your abilities.
So imagine if you will, trying to attempt to do something, not having confidence in your ability to do it, but knowing that you need to try, that you want to try, and that if you don't try, or if you fail, you'll disappoint not only yourself but another person whom you love deeply. Ugh. Doesn't sound very good, does it?
No, it doesn’t sound good. It also doesn’t sound very attractive. A passive man lacking in confidence is not attractive to a woman. He has to learn how to step up his alpha level. Maybe you have a similar chore? I think my wife has the same need. I have wanted to get her some books on getting in touch with her femininity, but we all know how well that would go over. Corri has discussed Mama Gena. Maybe she could offer some more guidance on this.
I am a classic Highly Sensitive Person (sorry Lou, but it's true ). I have had sensory issues my whole life. I find the bright sun almost painful without sunglasses; I have tactile issues, for example, I wear gloves when handling raw meat because I can't stand the feel of it, and I'm getting wrinkled unnessecarily because I can't stand the feel of skin lotion on my fingers; smells can make me physically ill, or at least terribly distracted.
"A deflection to avoid too much intimacy." What does that mean, exactly? That seems a little vague to me. Can you explain how she can want sex but then avoid it emotionally?
I am familiar with this. My wife says she was a lot like this as a child, not so much to sunlight, but to tactile sensations. My middle daughter is like this too. I have noticed that my wife can flip in and out of this extra sensory mode, depending on the situation. She seems to use it as an excuse to back off situations when intimacy is too much. For instance, she claims that she does not like to French kiss because she can’t breath. But she breathes fine at other times, and she is not a mouth breather. I think this is just a deflection.
She has also used sensory excuses during sex. Rather than focus on how good sex feels, she focuses on the pillow or something as a reason why she can’t focus on an O. She wants the O and the sensations of sex, but she is not comfortable with the vulnerability that comes with sex. She has a hard time opening up and allowing herself to connect emotionally. That is scary for her. That would mean dropping her long standing resentments. That would mean giving up the one up position she likes to have. That would mean reliving her FOO.
So she puts up an emotional barrier but still partakes in the physical enjoyment. That’s a tough wall to crack.
I'm not sure that the reason I want sex is to get closer. I want sex because it feels good, because I love him, because cac feels loved when he has sex with me, because we can love each other in that unique way, because a good sex life will improve the quality of our R and our lives in general, and because I've wasted enough time missing the boat.
But all this will bring you two closer. Be sure that in striving for what you state that you are not put off by the other things that with them. To feel loved and help CAC feel loved means becoming vulnerable. IT means dropping excuses and deflections. It means purposefully pushing aside and blocking out things you have used in the past to put up emotional defenses, including overcoming any sensory issues, at least to the extent you can.
He has smoked since he was 16. I married him because I was in love with him. Several people have commented to me over the years that they hate smoking so much they could never marry a smoker. My response was, "well look what I would have missed out on if I had split up with cac just because he smoked." I suppose in my youth I assumed that he would quit at some point.
So you hoped he would quit smoking, but the fact that he did smoke was not enough to repulse you. I would guess you had the same sensory issues then that you do now, perhaps even more so. How were you able to overcome his smoking then but you cannot do so now? How much of the repulsion you feel now is based on his smoking and how much could be wrapped up in other things, like resentment? Nothing wrong with that, you have a right to be resentful, but knowing it is a part of the mix can help you to direct it in an appropriate way and at the appropriate times.
