Thanks for all the replies peoples - they are all appreciated.
Cobra - you talk about an abused child and how they need to overcome the past memories and build trust in the new relationship, plus learn "new behaviours" - what if that child (i.e. my H) doesn't think he needs to learn new behaviours? and thinks he is just fine the way he is. How do you "focus on the pain within the child" and help them to see their actions are a reflection of that pain and to get "past it"?
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
If she thinks like that, she will have a hard time detaching when things get rough. Flip over into wife, friend and partner when the relationship is good.
Why do you think someone should hold to the ideals of wife (or husband), friend and partner when the spouse and the marriage is in a dysfunctional state? Those roles are better served in a healthy, functional marriage. Isn't it an unspoken contract to expect that she can be a wife, friend and partner when her H may not feel likewise or the marriage cannot support it? Isn't this self deception?
I think that someone should hold onto not the ideals, but the realities of their situation. Heywire isn't a therapist and the relationship she is in isn't one where her husband is her client. Yes people should try to practice differentiation from their partners especially when things are dysfunctional but trying to be a therapist isn't a job that a spouse should take. I don't believe that it is emotionally heathy for either party.
This may not be how you see relationships but these are my views.
I think that someone should hold onto not the ideals, but the realities of their situation.
That's my point. I don't think it is realistic for Heywire to think she or her H are true friends are partners to each other. Maybe they are as far as the positions they each occupy, but not in regard to their way of thinking and treating each other.
That is why I was proposing, and our past counselor also proposed, that each person detach in order to depersonalize issues and limit the reactivity.
Heywire isn't a therapist and the relationship she is in isn't one where her husband is her client. Yes people should try to practice differentiation from their partners especially when things are dysfunctional but trying to be a therapist isn't a job that a spouse should take. I don't believe that it is emotionally heathy for either party.
I think you are being too literal in interpreting my comments. I I didn't say Heywire should be a therapist to her H, but detach like a therapist would. Otherwise she stays enmeshed and reactive and perpetuates their dance. Once a counselor or therapist gets enmeshed with the client, their effectiveness is over.
Also, while I agree that she should not be a therapist, I disagree that trying to bring about change by detaching and doing the things a therapist would otherwise recommend is unhealthy. Leaving things alone will make the marriage even worse, and that is the most unhealthy position they can both be in. When things get bad, almost any change can be an improvement.
Cobra - you talk about an abused child and how they need to overcome the past memories and build trust in the new relationship, plus learn "new behaviours" - what if that child (i.e. my H) doesn't think he needs to learn new behaviours? and thinks he is just fine the way he is. How do you "focus on the pain within the child" and help them to see their actions are a reflection of that pain and to get "past it"?
Before I answer this, imagine that you take all that you describe as your H and place it into a trouble 10 year old boy. How would you handle that? How would you teach such a child to learn to be responsible for his own actions and to respect boundaries, to focus on his own pain? This is not a trick question. It is fairly simple and I am sure you have the answers within you.
Cobra - I have done exactly what you have suggested continuously for the past year or more
I have set my boundaries, I have made him be responsible for his actions, I have suggested that he think about the pain his actions have caused other people (all with the guidance of two different counselors - the first one passing us onto the second one because he felt he could go no further with us - and now we are running into the second one saying the same thing. And this guy is VERY experience - some 30 years)
My only other alternative is to pull the plug - is that what you do with a 10 year old boy - no. I have been there for him, through thick and thin, 2 affairs with escorts, depression on and off for pretty much all our marriage. Do I need to go on? I HAVE stuck by him and given him the love and support no other woman has ever given him (his words, not mine) and still I live with a man that is not there emotionally for me because he cannot connect emotionally with himself.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I think you are being too literal in interpreting my comments. I I didn't say Heywire should be a therapist to her H, but detach like a therapist would.
Quote:
How would you teach such a child to learn to be responsible for his own actions and to respect boundaries, to focus on his own pain?
Cobra, maybe I just get confused on where the line is between detaching like a therapist and taking on a role as a detached therapist or councilor.
Heywire, sorry to clog up your thread with this stuff. I really sympathize with what you're feeling and I know that it sucks.
I wasn't trying to make anything too deep of this, just saying that social workers, or even teachers for that matter, can get very attached to the troubled kids they work with. But too much attachment does not help those kids. They need steady boundaries and an adult who will not react to their outbursts.
A dysfunctional marriage is the same sort of thing. Enmeshment causes reactive responses, such as throwing the dagger back, yelling, passive aggressive behavior, etc. But all these actions are meant to do one thing, and that is to maintain a dysfunctional connection through such inappropriate behavior. That is the only way the dysfunctional spouse has ever known to interact with others.
As soon as the spouse responds to these provocations, a retaliation occurs and the cycle starts up. My point is that I think Heywire's H could be reacting a lot like this so it is important to break the cycle. I think her H could be acting a lot like a victim.
In fact, I think Heywire is a victim too, otherwise she would not had put up with him for such a long time and through so many repeated incidents, in spite of any children. Isn't she condemning his actions in word but condoning them by her lack of action?
