New and confused

[bar]

Hi Puddle!

Just to say my H said if I had a man he would walk without hesitation. A couple of months back he said something about my next husband and I replied I wasn't that stupid. (He asked OW to marry him at one point but rapidly went off the idea after he went to see his lawyer about D.)After he dropped the bomb he said I would meet Mr Wonderful and be happy. F***wit.

Like you I have only told my mother who told my sister. Now neither of them want to see him which is working out because he's so consumed by his own life. I speak to MIL sometimes (she lives 2000 miles away) and I feel really sorry for her.I hate lying to her. I think she'll have a heart attack but she'd support her son if he were the no 1 serial killer in the world.

I don't want too many people to know because they'll forever keep asking me if he's left and treating me with sympathy. I don't want that every time I step out of the house. If he leaves it will be different.

It's difficult when they confide in you because you want to know and don't want to know at the same time. I've confided in him for 30 years and it's hard to realise that's over for the time being, maybe forever.

Take care,

bar

[Nomopo]

Hi Puddle,

Nomopo, my DH hasn't said he's not attracted to me, but I'm pretty sure he feels it. Isn't that the whole lack of connection thing? If I were to ask him, he'd probably say he thinks I'm attractive, but he's not attracted. Make sense?

Yes, and my guess is he is not wanting to be intimate/connected right now, but some guys want sex any time and all the time regardless. And whether that is something you would be ok with is totally personal to you. Here is a link to something Michele wrote about sex with an estanged spouse to help you think about these issues: [url=]Link[/url]

Have you read DR? How many times? Where do you live?

Not yet; it's on the way. I hesitate to post online where I live, since I want to keep this private (in the public sense), no offense intended. Is there something about where I live that might affect posts or suggestions?

No offense taken. Only post it if and when you are comfortable. I think I asked because I was thinking it was a lot to respond to and somewhere down the road we might chat offline. I've made quite a few friends around here and some of communicate by email and phone. (In fact, seven of us met up in Orlando last weekend.) But that is not necessary at all. Privacy is very important.

If he does something like see someone else, you can tell him you don't agree with it, you think it is wrong and you aren't going to do it, but you realize you cannot control him and he is going to make his own decisions.

That is exactly what I think, but here's the question. If I say that to him, he will likely feel resentful. I obviously can't control that, but what about keeping the lines of communication open? I obviously can't stop him from doing whatever he's going to do, and I can't tell him to go with my blessings. Part of me is afraid that saying things like this will drive him out of the house, and part of me feels like he can't come back (if he's going to) until he leaves. That sounds like a zen principle (or a fortune cookie). Maybe I should start meditating.

Actually, makes sense. There are two approaches. One is to ignore it and not cause any tension. The other is to draw some boundaries, take some stands, state some principles, etc., but to do so calmly, and just for your own self respect and so they know where you are and/or what you are willing to live with and not live with. I don't think either is always right. It's personal. An example is my W was very afraid I was going to tell everyone about her A. She asked me to commit that I would never tell anyone. I said no. I have told my parents and brother for support. I have not told anyone because I am hoping she comes around. But I knew I couldn't promise her I would keep it to myself forever, so I didn't say that. She wasn't happy but I think she understood that was my line.

I think I'm still walking on eggshells in the honesty department. I've kept all my anger and hurt to myself since the first two talks, and that feels dishonest, so it's hard to figure out exactly where to be honest. He's clear that the marriage part of the marriage is over, so this all feels very clandestine to me. Coming out and telling him I think we should exhaust every possibility would frustrate him, as he sees none. He understands that I can't tell him it's okay with me, and says he can't expect that from me.

I think you have to keep your needs to yourself. Telling him you are hurt and angry is not going to accomplish much now. He doesn't care about your needs most likely, and can't help you get them met. Not if there is something business wise to be dealt with (finances, kids, living arrangements, etc.), discuss if you need to. Or if there is something that you want to take a stand on and you are willing to accept the consequences of taking the stand, go for it.

[quote=Nomopo]Are you willing to wait and fight for your M if he sees someone else? I am and have been, but it is hard. Personally, for the kids, I am still willing to wait. I won't wait forever, but I am still waiting for my W to come home. If it weren't for my kids, I don't know if I would still be putting up with this. It takes a long time and is very hard.

Good question. I feel like I am, that it almost has to happen, but it's a hell of a lot easier to say that now than it will be then. I stand in awe of your strength and endurance. Yet if you'd asked me six months ago how I would've responded to the bomb, I wouldn't have imagined I'd be as sane as I am now. I'm cultivating and counting on unplumbed depths of strength, and seeing people like you who've tapped in to them is inspiring, so thank you. And like you, if it weren't for the kids, I might very well have at least asked him to move out, eventually, anyway. I think your last sentence may be the understatement of the year.

It has gotten easier, but I still battle it frequently. Sometimes it feels like daily. But it probably isn't.

But I'd never thought about it in terms of DH. And sadly, I realize I have no idea what makes him feel loved, nor does he about me. I know that conversation is important to me; he calls it "blabbing at him about unimportant things." Ouch. Anyway, I need to figure this one out.

You're already on your way, and this is one of the positives that can come out of a terrible jolt like the one you have experienced. Did I ask if you had read 5LL? Sounds like you definitely should. Would be nice if H did too, but you can't really push that (yet).

Is the any JC or IC going on for either or both of you?

I recently left some absolutely rocking short-term counseling, very solution-based, and feel like it left me in really good stead to deal with this. I may go back to help sort this out. He'd been in long-term C, stopped a while ago, and recently went back to figure this stuff out. I have no idea where his C stands on this, but they have a good relationship, so there's nothing I can do there. He's not interested in JC.

Too bad. I was wondering if your SBOT C did couples too. If so, maybe you could get H to go see him/her at least once under the theory that C needs to see H and hear his side of the sotry she s/he can continue to help you. Then, and especially if H likes your C, you down the road might suggest that you and H go together to work on your communication and co-parenting skills which could lead to some couples therapy. You'll be in each other's lives forever anyway cause of the kids. That's how we got into it.

And even if he comes around, I know that will just be the beginning of a very, very long road.

Yes. Exhausting just thinking about it isn't it?

Patience, patience, patience.

The name of my thread!!!!

Yes, I know this is true. I've been working on the most obvious, easy changes so far, but I realize the big hard ones---the ones that might save our M even *after* he comes back (if he does)---are still waiting to be addressed. I'm trying to work on those.

Have you identified them?

He's much more confident than he's ever been, asks for what he wants (and is clear about what he wants, unfortunately for me), and is generally in a very take-charge place. This is beautiful to see in every other aspect of his life except our R.

Sounds like he feels he has all the leverage/power in the R right now. That is not healthy. You can take some back. One way is to focus on you and what you control, not what you don't control. Another is to take one of those stands or set a boundary, if there is one you want to set (but don't force it).

Build your picnic. Do you know the picnic/castle analogy?

No, please tell me about it.

Ok. Here's the idea. The WAS wants away from you. They need time and space. They have put up these huge walls because the are so hurt by all the awful things you, the LBS, did. (Just accept this as true. Remember, this is the WAS’s perspective.) So, it's like they are in a castle. No matter how hard you try to tear down the castle walls or break in (begging, pleading, crying, chasing, reasoning, guilting, etc.), you can't do it. All you can do is focus on you, and GAL. You have to "let them go" (to the castle really). Meanwhile, focusing on you and GALing, and being as happy, positive, upbeat, etc. as you can, is like setting up a picnic. A wonderful picnic! And because 99% of the time the WAS is noticing what you are doing (despite denials or acting to the contrary), it is like you set your picnic up right outside the castle walls.

Well, eventually (too long for most of us, so we have to be patient and keep at the picnic), the WAS becomes curious. You are looking good and look happy. And you are having fun. The WAS ventures closer and closer, to check things out. But they are skittish. If you jump up and start moving toward them (or even if you are too enthusiastic that the WAS is peaking out of the castle), they get frightened and run back in. You just have to keep eating the cheese and sipping your wine. Eventually, the WAS will come sit down for a bit. And then, all of a sudden, for no good reason (because you are, in fact, playing it cool and not chasing), the WAS still freaks out and runs back to the castle. They remember that they have decided to walk away, and they wonder why they are even at your silly picnic. Now, if you chase the WAS back to the castle (or even, gasp, pound on the door), the WAS will stay in there longer. Much longer. But if you just stay at your glorious picnic, eventually the WAS will wander back out again. And each time, they will stay a little longer, and be gone for less time. And then, success - they re-invest in the M! Make sense?

You are a very bright, sensitive woman. Believe it or not, no matter what happens, I believe you will be fine. In fact, you will be great.

Thanks, that gives me a big boost. Do you believe it about yourself?

Yes, I really do. But I still want to save my M very badly (not all that sure why), so I still worry about things too much. I am trying to detahc further, and care less. Isn't that sad?

But perhaps I should go out again, for my own sake and to show further that I'm okay?

I think so. GALing is good for many reasons, but one important one is if you can find something you are passionate about, it makes patience so much easier.

And second, I haven't shared what's going on with anyone but three close friends. Part of me is embarrassed, and part of me doesn't want to make it more "real" by telling the world. DH asked whom I've told, wanting to be sure I had someone to talk to. I have no idea whom he's told other than his C, his crush (I assume, since I haven't heard from her in a while), and a long-distance colleague (with whom he "feels a connection"---ugh) What have others done?

Personal deal. Our S is non-public, my W's choice. I think the key is you have someone to talk to and you do (three close friends and a C). Tell more if you want to - how about your family? Don't if you don't.

Nomopo, I am so grateful for the time you've given me. Your reminders and insights are more help than you can know, and I thank you. I'll look forward to hearing from you again.

My pleasure Puddle!

Nomo

[sandi2]

How you doing today Puddle? My friend my be correct in what he says about some of my ideas. But, also, I got to thinking about it and you might tell your H this, "Well, if I have a limited amount of time left to be with you, then I have decided it is going to be fun times and make some good memories". Like Nomopo says, it is up to you....nobody knows your H like you do. But, I bet it would get his attention, which is what a 180 is about...to a degree...and I bet he would feel like you were certainly doing a 180. Although, if it seems tasteless or out of character or you just feel too "fake" doing it....then try something else.

You may even want to give him the little warning of "I'm going to make this good while I can" speech and then start doing fun stuff and keep the conversation upbeat and positive. Even if you don't go wild (like with costumes & sex, etc.) you can talk the talk. It is hard to stay down or mad or grumpy around someone that is cheerful. On the other hand, when you are around a depressed person, it just tends to rub off and depress you too.

I guess you would get some answers one way or the other. Either you H would be delighted to see a change, or else, like Nomopo said, he may be too far gone. If that is the case, then you will know not to waste your time going that route.

Let me know what you do.

Sandi2

[sandi2]

Oh, about the "costumes"....lol....I got to thinking and I bet you all thought I meant something really WILD! No, no....nothing like that...just cute stuff....at first anyway. Then after things are good....go crazy!

Man, I wish I had never mentioned this. It will probably come back and bit me! But hey, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Puddle]

Hey everyone,

Had a workout this morning, am out for coffee by myself (and all of you), and am feeling relatively good, though still confused.

Nomopo, thanks, as usual for your thorough response. Here's mine.

Yes, and my guess is he is not wanting to be intimate/connected right now, but some guys want sex any time and all the time regardless.

That is so not my DH. I'd like to read the post you referred to, though, but the link didn't show. Will you post it again?

I've made quite a few friends around here and some of communicate by email and phone.

Wonderful. Re the location thing, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full. Feel free to PM me.

The other is to draw some boundaries, take some stands, state some principles, etc., but to do so calmly, and just for your own self respect and so they know where you are and/or what you are willing to live with and not live with.

This is something I'm going to need to think long and hard about; I sure wish I could push pause. I feel like I'm working on my internal boundaries right now (I'm not going to obsess, I'm rarely going to indulge in self-pity, I'll recognize hurt and sadness but not allow them to overwhelm me), but haven't got much further than that yet. I think that for right now, I'm going to respond often with empathy only, and a lot of "I need some time to think about that."

Telling him you are hurt and angry is not going to accomplish much now. He doesn't care about your needs most likely, and can't help you get them met.

During our big talk last week he kept saying, "Right now it's all about your needs," and it was hard to restrain a big, throaty guffaw. From his POV, he can't meet my wife-type needs (what the hell am I looking for there, "romantic needs"?), so he needs to do his best to cover everything else, so my needs above all. And you're right, he can't help me get those met.

Did I ask if you had read 5LL?

It came today (along with DB. I read about half of DR, up to the point where it says "You've been working on this for a while now..."), and I'm looking forward to reading it.

If so, maybe you could get H to go see him/her at least once under the theory that C needs to see H and hear his side of the story she s/he can continue to help you. Then, and especially if H likes your C, you down the road might suggest that you and H go together to work on your communication and co-parenting skills which could lead to some couples therapy.

This sounds like a great strategy, and I imagine he'd agree, thanks. To be honest, though, I feel like he's so closed to the idea of working on our M (I know you're saying the goal of this JC isn't that) that even if JC were ever to be able to help us, it wouldn't be now. Or do you think getting in there as early as possible is better?

Have you identified them?

The big issues. So far the one I can identify is fear: fear of failure, fear of rejection. This is something I've dealt with for a long time, and my IC helped me immensely. In fact, just as the IC was wrapping up (before all this), I realized that one of my intimacy issues was that deep, deep down inside, I never trusted that he wouldn't leave me and wasn't willing to put myself completely out there. That's probably a good place to start dealing with that: I didn't trust him not to hurt me so I kept distance between us, and eventually that distance contributed to him hurting me. I have to learn to be vulnerable.

When I was younger, I was madly in love with a man who broke my heart. I had been such a cynical thing already, and felt like such a boob to feel so head over heels for someone. When it was over, I said to myself: See, that's what you get. It was clearly a mistake. Remember it.

Later (but not soon enough) I learned to appreciate those crazy sweet feelings and to see them as something positive. Sure, it didn't work out, but that didn't mean that I was wrong. So that's a road I'm still traveling, and I have a long way to go.

And each time, they will stay a little longer, and be gone for less time. And then, success

Thanks for the picnic/castle analogy, I like it. And I'm working on getting my picnic supplies together (I'm working on my GAL list).

But I still want to save my M very badly (not all that sure why), so I still worry about things too much. I am trying to detach further, and care less. Isn't that sad?

So very much of all this is sad. You've been through months of this (and yes, by the way, feel free to send those first 7 strings along), and you're not ready to give up. Would figuring out your motivation to save your M be enlightening to you? (Not to give you something else to worry about!)

Hey sandi2, I may not be able to put any of your sexy/funky costume ideas to use right now, but you are lifting my spirits to no end! Thank you!

One new thing now. I've been working under the assumption that my DH is feeling pretty good right now: He's got the weight of "living a lie" off his shoulders, I haven't given him the boot, and he's grateful and has been cheerful. Then yesterday he came home from work, went straight to the backyard, and cried for an hour. I have seen him cry a total of two other times, including when he dropped the bomb.

My instinct was to ask if he was okay, but I just brought his cigarettes to him, then later a box of tissue, and asked if I could do anything for him. He said no, I said okay, and left him alone. I went out later, and when I came back he was up (he'd been in bed with the kids) and on the phone. When he came to bed (yes, still the same bed) he put his hand on my leg and said, "Thank you" (for what?) "For being you and acting like you are."

This morning he's up (late) and out. I emailed to ask if he's up for something fun and low key Friday night and he responded with "Sounds great."

Dear people, who have been through so much more than I, what the heck is going on? I think I've simplified his feelings in my head (I feel bad, he feels good). I know he has to go down his own road, and that it's not all a bed of roses. He could've been crying because his crush told him to *** off, or because he's just confused about what's happening and what he wants, or because he listened to a devastating description of refugee camps on NPR. I *know* I can't know. So what to do? Don't dwell on it? Offer comfort/don't? See it as just one of the many bumps that lie ahead? He never cries. It's hard not to want to hold him.

Thanks, everyone.

[Nomopo]

Hi Pudd! (is that ok? better than Poodle? ) I sure enjoy conversing with you. You write well. Feel like you can share your profession/training/education, or at least explain where you learned to write?

am feeling relatively good

Excellent!

Yes, and my guess is he is not wanting to be intimate/connected right now, but some guys want sex any time and all the time regardless.

That is so not my DH. I'd like to read the post you referred to, though, but the link didn't show. Will you post it again?

Here is the link to sex with the estranged spouse (which is what I think I tried to link before): Link.

I've made quite a few friends around here and some of communicate by email and phone.

Wonderful. Re the location thing, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full. Feel free to PM me.

PM doesn't work on these boards and hasn't since before I started. But you can email me at [e-mail] if you'd like.

The other is to draw some boundaries, take some stands, state some principles, etc., but to do so calmly, and just for your own self respect and so they know where you are and/or what you are willing to live with and not live with.

This is something I'm going to need to think long and hard about; I sure wish I could push pause. I feel like I'm working on my internal boundaries right now (I'm not going to obsess, I'm rarely going to indulge in self-pity, I'll recognize hurt and sadness but not allow them to overwhelm me), but haven't got much further than that yet. I think that for right now, I'm going to respond often with empathy only, and a lot of "I need some time to think about that."

Perfect approach. Think long and hard. Think on internal boundaries. Go slow/cautious. You're on top of this!

If so, maybe you could get H to go see him/her at least once under the theory that C needs to see H and hear his side of the story she s/he can continue to help you. Then, and especially if H likes your C, you down the road might suggest that you and H go together to work on your communication and co-parenting skills which could lead to some couples therapy.

This sounds like a great strategy, and I imagine he'd agree, thanks. To be honest, though, I feel like he's so closed to the idea of working on our M (I know you're saying the goal of this JC isn't that) that even if JC were ever to be able to help us, it wouldn't be now. Or do you think getting in there as early as possible is better?

I the key is to find the best C you can - pro-M (hopefully), but solutions based. Maybe IMAGO (mine is and she is great - check the http://www.gettingtheloveyouwant.com site to find IMAGO therapists near you). Then, just get him in however you can. My W agreed to go to work on communication and co-parenting. But read some of my journal entries on our JC sessions. Last was 8/9. It is so clearly couples therapy. Everyone agrees, and W must know it but won't say it.

Have you identified them?

The big issues. So far the one I can identify is fear: fear of failure, fear of rejection.

Good stuff on all this, but also focus hard, and think long and hard over a period of time, on what was missing in you and in your R for your H. It will give you clues about what kind of partner/person you are, then you can decide if that is ok or needs to be changed. These revelations came quickly, but then kept coming for me. Still are. A good long hard look at who you are is one of the best things that can come out of this mess.

yes, by the way, feel free to send those first 7 strings along

If serious, I will have to send in the mail (which I am happy to do). I had to have my posts pulled down. Long story. Privacy issue. I will explain it offline.

Would figuring out your motivation to save your M be enlightening to you? (Not to give you something else to worry about!)

Yes, it would. Kids are definitely a major motivation. But also, I know we can make it work. We were happy. Then both are issues got in the way. Now we both have a chance to grow and be happy together again, and that would be the right/satisfying thing to do. I have grown tons. Still work to be done. W doesn't seem to know that she has growing to do. I do love her. Deeply. I am willing to do so much for her and us, if only she would see that.

One new thing now. I've been working under the assumption that my DH is feeling pretty good right now: He's got the weight of "living a lie" off his shoulders, I haven't given him the boot, and he's grateful and has been cheerful. Then yesterday he came home from work, went straight to the backyard, and cried for an hour. I have seen him cry a total of two other times, including when he dropped the bomb.

My instinct was to ask if he was okay, but I just brought his cigarettes to him, then later a box of tissue, and asked if I could do anything for him. He said no, I said okay, and left him alone. I went out later, and when I came back he was up (he'd been in bed with the kids) and on the phone. When he came to bed (yes, still the same bed) he put his hand on my leg and said, "Thank you" (for what?) "For being you and acting like you are."

Wow. Awesome. And you handled it perfectly. Yeah, he's got his own issues to resolve. Let him do it. It is wonderful he is at least thinking about them.

This morning he's up (late) and out. I emailed to ask if he's up for something fun and low key Friday night and he responded with "Sounds great."

Also great. Don't chase too much. Follow his lead - think picnic and castle. Let him come to you. Also, it will be SO MUCH more meaningful when he asks you to do something Fri night.

Dear people, who have been through so much more than I, what the heck is going on? I think I've simplified his feelings in my head (I feel bad, he feels good). I know he has to go down his own road, and that it's not all a bed of roses. He could've been crying because his crush told him to *** off, or because he's just confused about what's happening and what he wants, or because he listened to a devastating description of refugee camps on NPR. I *know* I can't know. So what to do? Don't dwell on it? Offer comfort/don't? See it as just one of the many bumps that lie ahead? He never cries. It's hard not to want to hold him.

You can't know why, unless he volunteers it to you, and then you really can't trust it if it is alien spew. Do not dwell on it. You can tell him you are concerned for him, and tell him if there is anything you can do to help you would be happy to. And then leave him be. Pretty much just like you did. Good job. Don't be hurt if he declines. It's ok, really. And, yes, it is likely one of many bumps to come.

It is tempting to think the WAS has it all figured out and is happy, but much more often they are just as confused and emotional as we are. Guilt is big for a lot of them, but alos confusion on what to do and what they want. You most likely cannot solve it for him. Just give him time and space, and follow his lead.

Nomo

[sandi2]

Hi Puddle,

I am so proud of you. I think you did everything just right! I would have been brusting at the seams to know what was going on with him. I can only imagine how hard it was not to pry. But, you did wonderful!!!

It is hard to understand what he is going through because he doesn't quite know himself. But, I think what he said to you when he came to bed was a good sign. I think he was also telling you to continue to be "you". However, if I might add...be the best "you" that is possible. We all can improve on ourselves. And, that is the point....that we work to be the best we can be (with or without the spouse)for the rest of our days. So, anything that I have suggested that would be way out of bounds for you....don't do anything that would make you feel uncomfortable.

I think your heart will lead you when to ease into some fun things and according to his response, he is ready to have a night or week-end where he doesn't have to think about all this serious stuff and try to relax. This will be the perfect time for you to be relaxed and easy-going around him. Have his favorite foods in stock (or cooked) and make sure his clothes are washed, etc......in other words, just take as much stress off/out of his week-end as you can. Now what I am about to use for an example is nothing directed to you personally...it is just an example. When a H is unhappy and under a lot of stress...then when his clothes are dirty when he starts to dress...guess who he gets mad at? If there is nothing cooked or to snack on around the house, if he can't walk through the room for stumbling over stuff....it just works on his nerves and make him mad at you. Now.....please, please don't even think that I am hinting that any of this goes on around your place....I am just trying to explain what I mean by doing whatever you can to take any stress off him while he is home with you and the kids.

It all goes back (with or without the funky fun stuff) making the time he is home....the best part of his 24 hours. I know I am old fashion in many ways....but in a lot of ways I'm not! I believe in men helping out around the house....especially when the wife works outside the home. But when all is said and done...the woman is still the one who sets the "mood" in the home. Whatever your attitude.....behavior.....emotions....(whatever you want to label it) shows through and the rest of the family picks up and follows it.

It places a big burden on you sweetie. It is so hard for you going through this stuff with him. You don't know what to do, or what his next move will be, or what the next step should be. Read all the books that have been mentioned to you. That helps. The Marriage Builders web site is great. Makes so much sense in what he teaches. There is tons of information on there to download.

Well, here's hoping that you have a great week-end.....wait this is just Wednesday....anyway...it gives you more time to prepare. You can do it sweetie. We are here when you need us. We may not always know the correct advice to give or what to say to make you feel better....but we are here to listen to you.



Take care of yourself.

Sandi2

[Puddle]

Hey everyone,

Hi Pudd! (is that ok? better than Poodle?

Muuuuuuuuch better, thanks. I hate poodles.

You write well. Feel like you can share your profession/training/education, or at least explain where you learned to write?

I'm a writer. And thanks.

Good stuff on all this, but also focus hard, and think long and hard over a period of time, on what was missing in you and in your R for your H.

I'm sure there are more issues, but I think the vulnerability thing was/is a big one for the R. No vulnerability = no trust given = no sex drive (for me) = distance/lack of connection. Still working on the good, hard look. I don't expect it'll be quick.

Now we both have a chance to grow and be happy together again, and that would be the right/satisfying thing to do.

"right and satisfying"---that's an interesting thought. I've been working on why I want to change someone's mind who seems so certain, other than for my needs.

W doesn't seem to know that she has growing to do. I do love her. Deeply. I am willing to do so much for her and us, if only she would see that.

I hope she does. Have you ever thought about the possibility that W will decide she wants to save the M but isn't willing/able to do the work? If it's interesting for you, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that. I've also been asking myself, lazy lump that I often am, how much work I'm willing to do. Sometimes I think I just want to rest, and let whatever will happen, happen.

Yeah, he's got his own issues to resolve. Let him do it. It is wonderful he is at least thinking about them.

Oh, he's quite the thinker. I once told him his gravestone should read: Not dead, just thinking about it. It's good to believe, though, that he's not as settled and satisfied with what's happening as he often seems to be. And yes, I'll let him have at it.

Don't chase too much. Follow his lead - think picnic and castle. Let him come to you. Also, it will be SO MUCH more meaningful when he asks you to do something Fri night.

Indeed it will. I used to beg him to plan things, even just to pick a day and ask me to plan something. I'm so easy! Take me to the theater and a hot new restaurant and I will be putty in your hands. He stepped up a couple times. The closest I've got for eons has been "Do we have a sitter for Friday night?" So if he asked me to do something (differently), it would sure mean something.

Do not dwell on it. You can tell him you are concerned for him, and tell him if there is anything you can do to help you would be happy to. And then leave him be. Pretty much just like you did. Good job. Don't be hurt if he declines. It's ok, really. And, yes, it is likely one of many bumps to come.

Thanks, I feel pretty good about how I handled that. And it's good to remember that there'll be more to come. What's that boy scout motto?

I would have been bursting at the seams to know what was going on with him. I can only imagine how hard it was not to pry. But, you did wonderful!!!

Thanks, Sandi2! Two things helped me with this one. First, I'm not exactly bursting at the seams to know! Second, whenever something's bothering him, pushing him to share it has *never* worked. He spends so much time in his head, resolves things for himself, and I rarely get a recap. So this was a no-brainer for me.

However, if I might add...be the best "you" that is possible. We all can improve on ourselves. And, that is the point....that we work to be the best we can be (with or without the spouse)for the rest of our days.

That is, indeed, the point. (That "rest of our days" made me tired just reading it, though!) The journey never ends, which is as it should be. Amen.

This will be the perfect time for you to be relaxed and easy-going around him.

I'm gearing up for this, but I'm pretty self-conscious about what I talk about these days. I have carried our conversations for years, or led them, at least, and I'm sensitive to the fact that he says I "babble" (which he also says he misses when I'm not around) and "we never talk about anything important" (bomb talk). Does anyone know any good jokes? Should I be talking up all the exciting and wonderful things I'm doing to GAL? That would certainly take some of the mystery out of it, but he's gone all day and can't see it.

Now.....please, please don't even think that I am hinting that any of this goes on around your place....

Ha! I am the queen of laundry. That man's clothes are never dirty. But this raises an interesting thing that's going on. DH and I have always had different ideas of clean: I hate clutter, he hates dirt. A while ago I surprised him by hiring a cleaning service, and they were amazing. Now that all this is going on, he's washing dishes and making me coffee right and left, to "make this as easy as possible" on me. Part of me feels like I should back off on the comfort stuff a bit, and part of me wants to do what you're suggesting---make him comfortable. Not sure what to do there.

The other day he asked if I'd deep-cleaned the fridge, and I had indeed washed a couple of shelves. I thought, "How nice! He noticed!" I said I deep clean when I see something that needs it. Then he said, "Why don't you get the maid service out here again?" I jumped to the interpretation: Geez, even when I do that it's not enough, as I had assumed he was washing dishes because it bothered him that I'd left them. I took it as an indictment of my cleaning skills. But now I think it's just another way he's trying to make this easy on me. Just goes to show me, I need to be very careful about what I believe he means, especially in more important matters.

It all goes back (with or without the funky fun stuff) making the time he is home....the best part of his 24 hours.

This is hard right now. DH came home this evening, plopped himself down on the floor next to where the kids were playing, and promptly nodded off. He does this regularly. He woke up while I was putting the kids in bed, came out and chatted a bit, and left. Not sure how to put any pizazz into that. But I do know what you're saying.

the woman is still the one who sets the "mood" in the home.

I agree with this, in our case, anyway. One of DH's pet peeves with me is that he says I fret. I'm working hard on being much, much more laid back. Not sure if it's enough yet for him to notice.

wait this is just Wednesday....anyway...it gives you more time to prepare.

Ha! I thought it was Friday today, too. It's a good thing---I do need more time.

You can do it sweetie. We are here when you need us. We may not always know the correct advice to give or what to say to make you feel better....but we are here to listen to you.

Sandi2, thank you so much. Support really makes a whole world of difference, let me tell you. I do feel better. And I'll be better. So will you.

Thanks again, all.

P.S. Are my posts the longest? I wonder if they're tiring to read.

[bar]

Hi Puddle!

Ilove reading your posts and I love the calm and controlled way you handle things.

Re GALing, H rarely asks me where I've been but he's already told me I seem to be gadding about having fun. Got back today and he came down to see me and made me a drink. I felt pretty good until he rushed off to do his ironing in readiness for his long weekend. Now I'm down again and dreading the next 3 days.

On the plus side, since he's not around I can stay home and do whatever I please.

take care, bar

[Puddle]

Hey bar,

Thanks for writing. I guess if we go ahead and work on GAL, it's going to show in lots of ways other than them getting to see exactly what we're doing. The most important part has to be feeling better because of all the GALing, and that's probably what they'll notice most. And hey, even if you're not gallivanting around having fun, he thinks you are. Good for you!

What are you doing to gear up for your long, hard weekend? Something fun for you?

Take care!