Looking for some support

[ediemarie]

WOW! A full night's sleep! Now that IS something to mention...I have no problem passing out now, but for a few weeks there I was all about pacing around the house at 2 AM.

Sounds liks some of your DB efforts are paying off - you piqued her interest with the cologne and boxers, and also the planning for the next step. Keep making small changes and see where it goes.

Believe it or not, I found my counselor through the Ladies Home Journal website. http://www.LHJ.com They run an article in every issue called Can This Marraige Be Saved? Due to the success of that article they post a link to a counselors search engine on their website. I just typed in my zip code and looked for what was in the area. The counselors list a blurb about themselves and their philosophy of care. I chose 2 that seemed to say what I was looking for. I called one of them, and had a brief conversation with her about what I was looking for and how she was going to approach it. I then went to see her and so far so good.

EM

[Willing NJ H]

Dis,

Ok man, I read all of your posts (but none of the advice anyone gave you because i'm short on time.) Sorry if I repeat what people have said, or if i'm blunt, but i'm a jersey guy and know how we can be. I'm assuming that, like me, you generally have a tough skin, and can deal with some strong constructive criticism.

First - our sitchs are very similar. Read my enitre first thread (willing nj H seeking DB help.) You've posted on it, but if your read every post, from the beginning, you'll see that I started like you. I listened to advice from several experienced DBers, and i've come a long way. YOU CAN ALSO USE THE ADVICE THEY GAVE ME!

Second - Your being like I was at frist. Get your emotions out of your head, and LISTEN TO THE DBers! You've got the jersey attitude, and sound as stubborn as I am. You hearing what these guys are telling you, but you won't listen. Your M is going down fast, you can't go anywhere but up from here. Since that's the case, stop throwing dead wight into your sinking marriage and work on what you can. Re-read DR several times. LIVE IT! The only chance you have at saving your M, is to let it go. I was told a few times, that DBers noticed a positive change in their sitch when they truly let go and accepted that their M may end. I had the same thing happen. If this has worked for thousands of couples, why would you be so afriad to try these methods? Your way isn't getting you anywhere, try something new. I promise that if you follow the DB rules, and listen to the DBers, you'll start feeling better and see some type of positive changes.

Stop Pursuing your W! Your putting way too much pressure on her, and showing her more of the things that she doesn't like about you. You are re-affirming that she is making the right decisions and making her feel better about her decision to leave you. If you were in her shoes, would you be attracted to a man who was spying on you, sniveling, crying and begging all of the time? Use the DB methods. Start "Getting a Life", "Acting as IF", and "Do a 180". These things help. Don't push her, give her space and work on you. IT WORKS! Remember, DBing isn't going to save every M, but it will let you know that you did everything possible to save your M. It will make you OK, no matter what happens. My W had an EA (possible PA), had a pic of her (fully clothed) in her friends bathroom with a shirtless guy that I don't know, etc. She told me she didn't love me, never loved me, never should have married me, etc. You read about my last convo with W... she told me that she knew she did love me, and expressed interest in working on us. It took me three months to get a positive comment, and she'd been considering a D for 7 months before that. I know how bad it hurts, there is nothing you can do. You have to stop all efforts to control her, what you want doesn't matter to her right now. You have to show her the man you really are. You really need to explore your past, and find out what the other problems are in your M. The only real issue I read in your post is a poor sex life... I promise you that in her mind, there are more problems. If she isn't willing to tell you what they are right now, work on what you think you and she could have done better (DR will help you discover these things). If you GAL, act as if, etc.; she won't have a choice but to stumble in her tracks and wonder if she's making the right decision.

I also live in the house with my W. I suggest sleeping separately for now. It will lessen some of the discomfort, and give her the space she needs. Do what you need to do to take care of the kid(s), but other than that, leave her be for now. Let her go out, let her do what she has to do to feel she has some control over her life and discover who she is. She needs to feel comfortable with herself before she can look at you in a positive light. Reconnect with your friends / family, and start going out and doing things for you again. Exercise, take up a hobby, start doing things you used to enjoy. (Exercise has the added effect of making you more physically attractive and relieving stress.) It will be very hard at first, but do not listen to yourself right now. Every set-back wil be more time that you are going to hurt and have to deal with this longer.

I started going to Dave and Busters, hanging with friends once in a while, working out/running, and left her alone. It has helped tremendously. Just remember, this is an extremely long road! You didn't get to this point over night, and it won't be fixed over night. I've heard some experienced DBers suggest that it commonly takes a minimum of one month for every year you were together, if there are no real set-backs. I don't know if it's accurate, but it helps me because I think "it's going to take me at leat 8 months, and it's only been 3." Hey, whatever it takes to make you feel better.

Watch yourself with the OW at your work. Flirting may feel good, but if the W catches wind of it, or you slip into an A, it will make matters worse.

I don't know if I caught everything that I wanted to, but I know you can do this. You have the attitude I did, but it's not gonna help you bro. Get everything you know/think about dealing with this out of your head, and live the DB/DR methods. Stop all snopping, pressure, and unnecessary contact. Stop the emails, phone calls, text messaging, etc. Unless there is a matter you have to consult her for (like children), leave her be. If you don't know where she is, it doesn't matter. If she doesn't come home, it doesn't matter. If she's out with an OM, IT DOESN'T MATTER! I know this is easier said than done, but it's the only chance you have. Kick yourself in the a$$, and get ready for the long haul. You have awesome support right now. SOFAR and these other guys are wonderful. They know what they are doing, and have made their own mistakes. They try to help us from having the same set-backs that they did, and I contribute all of the positives in my R to them.

My one last suggestion: if you truly value your M and want to wrok on it, wear your ring. It doesn't matter what she does. You want her to know the you are interested in fixing your M, making the necessary changes, and will be there for her. Don't tell her this, show her. Make your own changes, show that your still committed and not quitting by wearing your ring and acting as if.
Don't believe everything she says/does right now, she's not thinking clearly (and won't if you continue on the same path.)

P.S. - The more your post on other threads, the more that people will be willing to help you. Check out NOMOPO, KELLEY, DLT, EAA, Etc. I'll be checking on you, take it easy.

Where in NJ are you, new hope isn't far from me? I work near Trenton, and live in Burlington County. Maybe we can go out for a beer sometime if you need support. I have a few otherfriends with M issues right now, and we've been going out and having a good time.

[bar]

Still following D; take it easy.

bar

[Disillussioned]

I'm assuming that, like me, you generally have a tough skin, and can deal with some strong constructive criticism.

Always welcome criticism.

First - our sitchs are very similar. Read my enitre first thread (willing nj H seeking DB help.) You've posted on it, but if your read every post, from the beginning, you'll see that I started like you. I listened to advice from several experienced DBers, and i've come a long way. YOU CAN ALSO USE THE ADVICE THEY GAVE ME!

I have been keeping up with your thread and wanted to let you know that you are definitely one of the guys that gives me inspiration and hope on this site. You've done a great job, and I'm trying my hardest to follow in your footsteps. Thanks for posting here.

Second - Your being like I was at frist. Get your emotions out of your head, and LISTEN TO THE DBers! You've got the jersey attitude, and sound as stubborn as I am. You hearing what these guys are telling you, but you won't listen.

I'm getting to that point. Really trying hard

Stop Pursuing your W! Your putting way too much pressure on her, and showing her more of the things that she doesn't like about you. You are re-affirming that she is making the right decisions and making her feel better about her decision to leave you. If you were in her shoes, would you be attracted to a man who was spying on you, sniveling, crying and begging all of the time? Use the DB methods. Start "Getting a Life", "Acting as IF", and "Do a 180". These things help. Don't push her, give her space and work on you. IT WORKS!

I recognize the pressure I'm putting on her, and I'm trying to change. Her birthday yesterday was tough. I've sworn off the spying and snooping. It only leaves me feeling worse and backfires when she finds out. I've been getting out at least once a week for drinks with friends. This past weekend I took the kids to the Renaissance Fair. Planning a hiking / camping trip in September in Virginia. Don't call, txt or email for no reason. I think I'm making some progress. I know I can do better. Sniveling?? I try to avoid that.

My W had an EA (possible PA), had a pic of her (fully clothed) in her friends bathroom with a shirtless guy that I don't know, etc. She told me she didn't love me, never loved me, never should have married me, etc.

There is someone she talks to and texts. She has repeatedly denied anything more than friendship, even last night when I asked. If it is just an EA there is potential for it to go further. I'm not going to let myself get all crazy over it. I got the same dialog from her about the not in love, never have been. Said she was in love with the fairy tale relationship prior to the marriage, but she was too young and didn't know better. (she was 23 when we married)

You read about my last convo with W... she told me that she knew she did love me, and expressed interest in working on us. It took me three months to get a positive comment, and she'd been considering a D for 7 months before that.

This is definitely my inspiration.

You really need to explore your past, and find out what the other problems are in your M. The only real issue I read in your post is a poor sex life... I promise you that in her mind, there are more problems. If she isn't willing to tell you what they are right now, work on what you think you and she could have done better [/quote]

I've thought long and hard about this and have come up with several things that I could have done better. My question on this is that a lot of it was communication, so I'm having some difficulty trying to decide how to show improvement here if I'm acting As If and GAL.

I also live in the house with my W. I suggest sleeping separately for now. It will lessen some of the discomfort, and give her the space she needs.

I've been thinking about this. Too much temptation when I'm in the bed with her.

Let her go out, let her do what she has to do to feel she has some control over her life and discover who she is. She needs to feel comfortable with herself before she can look at you in a positive light.

I've been letting her do that. Actually always have. Never really had a problem with her going out with friends.

You have awesome support right now. SOFAR and these other guys are wonderful. They know what they are doing, and have made their own mistakes. They try to help us from having the same set-backs that they did, and I contribute all of the positives in my R to them.

I have a lot of respect to all the people on this board and have seen some great advice. Hats off to everyone.

My one last suggestion: if you truly value your M and want to wrok on it, wear your ring. It doesn't matter what she does. You want her to know the you are interested in fixing your M, making the necessary changes, and will be there for her.

I got my ring back this past weekend. Not gonna take it off again.

Where in NJ are you, new hope isn't far from me? I work near Trenton, and live in Burlington County. Maybe we can go out for a beer sometime if you need support. I have a few otherfriends with M issues right now, and we've been going out and having a good time.

I work in Branchburg and life up in Sussex county. Burlington is a bit of a hike, but possible. Hoping the improvements in the R continue. Best of luck.

[dlt1]

Hey Dis and Willing, good posts. I took my ring off Sunday after W said she wants to file, no changing her mind. I thought it might be good for me to detach and for W to see whenever we see each other again. C said she thought W might see it as a sign that I resepct what she is saying. (OK I Know you're answer, but hit me anyway)!

You really need to explore your past, and find out what the other problems are in your M. The only real issue I read in your post is a poor sex life... I promise you that in her mind, there are more problems. If she isn't willing to tell you what they are right now, work on what you think you and she could have done better

I've thought long and hard about this and have come up with several things that I could have done better. My question on this is that a lot of it was communication, so I'm having some difficulty trying to decide how to show improvement here if I'm acting As If and GAL.

I struggled with thsi as well. I kept my needs/emotions to myself, did not listen/talk well with W. Thought 180 would be to change that and dig into R talk. THIS IS NOT THE TIME! I got answers I did not want, which discourages. I got no positive repsonses. I am CERTAIN it reinforced her beliefs. I wish I could take those actions back more than I wish I could take back the non-communication during the M. I can't say that my new attempt at no R talk, PMA, short vague answers about me, will work. BUT, it's a 180 from the past month.
I believe the 180 is regarding the actions you were doing immediately after the bomb. It is kind of crisis mgmt. You're not going to fix anything with a 180, just patching the breach. Once you stop from sinking, then you can begin to form a committee (you, C, this board) that will explore possible solutions through a series of bureacratic meetings. After said deliberation, a chosen plan will be implemented at a mind numbingly slow pace, with reflection and revision meetings after each step. Oh, and of course this is all at the will of the oversight committee (your W). All work stops any time there is an objection, and can not begin again until the oversight committee gives the ok AND the work committee has adequately reviewed.
Hope that silly analogy makes sense and gave you a laugh!

[Disillussioned]

I struggled with thsi as well. I kept my needs/emotions to myself, did not listen/talk well with W. Thought 180 would be to change that and dig into R talk. THIS IS NOT THE TIME! I got answers I did not want, which discourages. I got no positive repsonses. I am CERTAIN it reinforced her beliefs. I wish I could take those actions back more than I wish I could take back the non-communication during the M.

I'm definitely of the opinion now of no R talks unless she brings it up. Detached and give her space at this point. It is up to her and there is little that I can do to change her mind except make myself more attractive to her. I know it looks like things are bleak at this point, but I would focus that much more on yourself. I hear this over and over again that you need to get yourself into a good state of mind and body to deal with whatever the future holds. Either with or without the W, you'll be in a better position for yourself.

Hope that silly analogy makes sense and gave you a laugh!

Makes sense and did give me a laugh.
Hang in there.

[Disillussioned]

So W goes out last night with girlfriends from work. No problem, I'm detaching and actually have never given her a problem on going out. D had told me that mommy told her she wouldn't be late, so in my mind I was expecting about 10:30. So 10:30 rolls around and I start wondering when she'll get home. I go to sleep. Wake up around 11:30 and she's not home. Now I'm laying in bed worried, disturbed and wondering. Lay there for about 40 minutes and then need to get up because S is having a nightmare. Txt W asking her when she will be going home. Really tried holding back from doing this, but I failed. Anyhow she pulls in about 10 minutes later. When she comes in, it looks like I'm sleeping. She gets ready for bed and then disappears. Curious, I get up and go to see where she went. She's on the futon in the office. "Why are you sleeping in here?" Replied "I don't know". Ask her if she had a good night and she asks if the kids were good. Ask her "So you don't know why you're sleeping in here?" W replied "I didn't want to wake you".

Left it at that. Went to bed. I had to bite my tongue on pushing anything else. Other than just going to talk to her in the first place I thought I did well.

Anyhow, I was still burnt up this morning that she had stayed out so late and hadn't called. Left her a note in the kitchen saying something like...

"I really don't have a problem with you going out with friends. I'm really working on giving you the space that you asked for, so I don't expect or need to know where you go or with who.
I just ask for the consideration and respect of a phone call to let me know that you are going to be getting home later than expected."

I wrote more, but it was much of the same. Am I wrong here? Should I have just let it slide? Frustrating. I know... she's not thinking of me where she is right now. She was out having a good time, and I was probably the last thing on her mind.

Just got a text message from W. "I am sorry that I worried you".

Okay, that was actually more than I expected at this point.

Another txt message from W. "I hope you have a good time tonight"

Now I need to debate whether or not to reply. Anybody out there with some quick advice??

[dlt1]

Hope this is quick enough. Don't reply. You got a good interaction there, end it on a positive.

[Disillussioned]

Thanks for the confirmation DL. I was so close to replying to her just now. You're the second person that said don't reply, so I'll go with majority rules. Not sure how I was going to reply, but I guess it wouldn't have been anything too constructive.

[sofaraway]

Hey Diss, absolutely don't reply. Also, stand firm and next time don't ask her why she chose to sleep on the futon. Just let her do it. You will get little tests from her over and over again to see if you are really letting go or not.

So do it, completely let go, thats the best advice I can give you. Actually begin to act as if you are separated and let her live her life and you focus on yours and the kids. Don't let her play games with you my friend, just move on with your life and working on you.


Ian