Plank/WAW, thread 2

[stewart10]

H:

I am sorry that you are having to deal with this. I agree with W33, it is okay to cry. Just don't do it in front of her. And I think both STT and W33 are right. Go out and try and do something to relieve some of your tension. Even if it is just going for a walk or jog. It helps me relieve some of my stress when I am feeling really wound up. This could help you in the PMA when your W gets home.

Oh, man. W just forwarded the mediation documents to me for this Thursday. Oh, happy, happy, joy, joy. Kind of numb. Sitting her kindof just trying not to cry.

I suppose there is something about seeing things on paper that really makes it hit home. I hope I never have to experience it, and I am sorry that you find yourself there.

Just remember what your ultimate goal is. And before you do/say anything tonight, ask yourself if it is going to get you closer to your goal.

[PMA_Baby!]

Hi H - I agree w Stew. Your W is just trying everything in her power to justify to herself and everyone else what she's doing. Although, they might not show it they are dealing w a tremendous amount of guilt. Especially when it comes to the kids. I recently have had the same conv. with my w and told her that "it didnt seem like this was bothering her that much." She said "that she has had on her game face and that she has been suffering as well". I also agree w the power thing. If our WAW's have felt controlled or trapped in the R/M then all we can do is let them go. Relieve any pressure they are feeling. Unfortunately, sometimes this means ending the marriage all together. It's amazing how much pressure that little piece of paper creates. Once they are D and feel released then who knows if they will want to try again. I hear about people D and renewing their vows or just living together all the time. We just need to figure out if we can handle it. How bad do we want it? If my WAW never takes any responsibility for this I dont think I could ever really take her back. You will have to make that decision as well. Like everyone keeps telling me you will always have a relationship with her because of the kids. And you will always have a history together. Eventually, they will start remembering the good times instead of justifying their current actions with the bad.

Keep up the GAL, PMA and everything that supposed to happen will. Whether we want it to or not. As much as I've tried not being controling I know at some level I have always tried to control my future. I now realize you can't control your destiny it just happens. Go to your destiny my friend!

Good luck bud. Stay positive! BM07

[Sara]

Hi H,

Back from Orlando and checking in on you. I, of course, am Ms. Communication (is that a double entendre?) And think you did the right thing in speaking from your heart. Adding the effe you punctuation doesn't help though, but that is the problem with conversation. That is why a letter might be a better way to present the information, but then in your situation, you can't be assured of getting a thoughtful letter back.

I think you do have to take her at her word. She is serious, and she won't stop. That being said, it is a cruel world out there. And if you give her the freedom to get out there and meet other people, support herself as a working single mom, and try to rebuild what she had before, she may discover it's not so easy.

So stay her friend. You don't have to lose your best friend. I hope that she is not planning to move far away with the girls. Do the whole share the kids, live in two places thing and see what happens. You may not win the battle, but the war is far from over.

[Heimlich]

Thanks, everyone. There was something about seeing the ending of my M in black and white that really made it real for me. Back on more of an even keel, working out in a few minutes.

I guess the thing that gets me the most is that she never told me how she really felt so I'll never know if, had we really tried (by that I meant being honest with our feelings and communicating those feelings), we could have built a great R. I sincerely believe that we could, but never getting that chance is maddening. I feel cheated by my W because she has been judge, jury, and executioner of this R. Maybe things will turn around, I don't know. I've still got it in me that I love her, but this is awful.

Sara, My W makes more than I do. We'll be splitting clothes and whatnot for the girls. Our standard of living is going to take a hit, but we'll both be able to live OK. She'll be better off than I will, slightly. Saving for the future and any extensive vacation, which we finally would have been able to afford, will now be much more difficult to do. Not really important, but those things make life easier to live. One of the items that we'll have to work out is joint custody and limiting the others' ability to move so that we can keep that R with our girls.

I think there is a lot of self-justification on her part in viewing the past as mostly bad and her lack of faith in me as an excuse for her not to really open up herself to me. Maybe that will change in the coming months.

And, yes, I do have to lose my best friend. I'll be friendly and a friend, but I'm not going to give this woman my deep friendship outside of our M. Rightly or wrongly, I just don't feel that I'll be able to and maintain my sanity. Might change, might not.

"You may not win the battle, but the war is far from over."

Good way to look at things. Thanks.

Blech.

BD

[Not Much Left]

H
How are u doing?

[Heimlich]

Did some good, some bad yesterday after the W got home. I had called her around 5:30 and was going to ask her to take the girls to dinner so that I could collect myself. When she called me back about 30 minutes later, I was fine. She asked why I had called, I told her, but said come on home anyway. I'm fine. Just seeing the documents had made it more real to me, but that I was OK.

I could tell she was a little apprehensive when she got home. I was in the kitchen, putting away the dishes. She kept telling me to go work out in the basement, I said I'm halfway finished, let me finish and I'll go workout. I told her you look a little nervous adn that you probably thought you'd be walking into a poopstorm when you got home. She said yes. I turned to her and just stated simply that I'm not like that any longer. I'm disappointed and hurt that you don't see the value in continuing our R, but I'm not angry. She just kindof nodded. I was walking to the basement and taking my ring off and she said something that kind of set me off (for the life of me can't remember what, might've been nothing, I was trying to get my ring off but it was stuck). I took it off and threw it against the wall and made a sound of disgust, charged off downstairs. Felt like an idiot about 10 seconds later, so went upstairs, apologized, put my ring back on, said "I didn't really mean that, I'm still in love with you. Frustration just momentarily got the better of me." and went downstairs to work out. She wasn't angry, looked a little sad, said "I understand."

She came downstairs to get something while I was working out and apologized again, just said, I'm sorry, shouldn't have done that or something similar. She said it was "OK". I said, "thanks, but that's not OK and I'm sorry." While she was walking up, I said I know how you feel, if we go through the mediation and you ever feel like you want to try to stay, I'm fine with keeping the mediation document as a basis for our D in the future if things didn't work out even then (or something like that). Left it at that.

Sat with her for a while outside while she picked crabs for crabcakes tomorrow. Just talked about nothing really though I did tell her that, for your sake, don't date the OM when we separate that you deserve someone better than an emotionally constipated man who's stayed in an unhappy M and cheated on his W twice with two co-workers (my W and someone else 9 years ago) that you know of. You deserve better than that and I don't want tyou to ever feel the pain that I've felt. You deserve to be happy. She didn't really say much to that, other than that she's not even thinking of dating (to which I did a mental YIPEE!) I also had asked her not to start dating until I was out of the house or we were living separately. Oh, I also sort of apologized for restating my feelings the other day. I said that I know how you feel, but that I hadn't really told you how I've felt about you as often as I should have and that I just kindof needed to get it out. She was OK with that. No look of anger or this pissed off look she gets on her face when annoyed.

I initiated a hug later, which she did return with some warmth. She also accidentally called me Sweetie (didn't say anything, but noted it) while we were sitting outside and patted me on my buttocks to move me out of the way in the kitchen for something -- first time she's done that in a while.

I regret chunking my ring across the kitchen. Everything else was taken OK.

Plus, I figure if GD can persevere in the face of no interest from his W, I can move forward with my W being friendly. I'm starting to think that if she's real changes, and really starts believing they're true, then I've got a legitimate shot at this.

BD

[savingus77]

Aside from the ring thing, what you said and how you handled the situation could not have been better - I am impressed! Glad to see that she responded warmly to you...

I wouldn't necessarily assume that it was accident that she called you sweetie or that she didn't know what she was doing when she patted you on your butt to move... I am not speaking for myself here of course, but women can be very good at letting something come across as unintentional or an accident to see what the reaction might be. I can't believe I am giving this up - but it is a way of protecting ourselves. This way if our outward gesture does not have the response we were hoping for - we are able to play it off as if it was nothing. Does that make sense at all?

[Not Much Left]

S, secrets revealed?
H I dont think those things are accidents either. FWIW

[alk24]

Dude, I'm so sorry. I look at the threads here every day hoping there will be some good news. Maybe this is good news for you..in the long run.

[Heimlich]

That does make sense. I'll keep it in mind and be alert for other such small indications of, oh, let's call it "warmth slippage" over the next few days/weeks.

Here's to hoping at this point next year we'll have progressed back to more than light patting.

Been meaning to read through your thread again, Saving. Will do tonight. Everytime I do a quick skim though, you seem to be hanging in there pretty well.

BD