Trying to set those goals!

[Trixi]

holy crap, good for you! I don't even want to read the bad news, and sad there is an update. just know that you are my hero. I swear right now, all h would have to do is look at me and I'd jump him. not for him, but lets just say I'm sick of cleaning my floors.

LOL!!!
Yeah, when he left, he wasn't the only frustrated person. Yikes! I'm only human for crying out loud!!

I doubt that there is an expectation of anything happening tonight since we are meeting at the restaurant. If he had picked me up, then maybe I would think differently. Yes, I know that his car is capable of driving to my house..but since we're meeting there, it just seems that we'll be going our separate ways afterwards.

Besides, I am perfectly fine with him taking me on several dates before he gets any booty....and honestly, I am not sure it would be in my best interest to give it up... That one is still confusing to me.

[SallyM]

okay, just read the bad news. first off, this is all hearsay. yes, ss might be on target, but it is filtered thru him, and he's 20, and obviously emotional about it, so try not to let it influence you. just be the better person. and very good that you aren't asking for details.

this must be very hard for your ss. but it sounds like you will never desert him, which is probably something he needs to hear/needs to know. that you are there for him, and that his sister is his sister, no matter what any one else says. even if you divorce, let him know that you will always be family.

very tough when families get involved at all.

good luck tonight. and yeah, cars have been known to end up at the destination they didn't start out at. and the best intentions don't always work out as planned, even if you do things that you think will prevent it from happening (eg, I won't shave my legs! I won't wear cute undies! then I definitely won't let him come back to the house!). honestly, I don't know the answer...I think moving too fast isn't likely the best thing, but I don't know. its been 2 months since we last had sex, but yeah, h and I have had sex several times since the bomb. not since he moved out the last time, though. do I think each time we had sex was a mistake? no. but I do know the last couple of times we did were just not good. well, except for the last time, the sex was good, but the repercussions weren't.

good luck, and hope you have a good dinner/night.

[Trixi]

Well, it was a pretty good evening, until....

Until near the end when somehow what happened (or didn't happen) yesterday came up. Then *he* said "yeah, we need to talk about that." Long story short-- he doesn't want to "lead me on". And sure, we could have sex, but it wouldn't mean what it should. And, no, there isn't anyone else. He knows that he is a "one woman man." He doesn't want to date anyone else. He still feels attracted to me, I'm the only one he feels like dating and he is trying to make that go away. He is conflicted. At some point during the above statements I said "Um, yeah, I can sure see how being attracted to your wife is horrible. And then he said "I try to talk to you and you throw it back in my face" to which I said "Oh yeah?! You think I am throwing it back in your face?!? You mean, when I point out that you are attracted to your wife and it seems like you are making every effort to squelch the feelings you SHOULD have for YOUR WIFE that YOU LEFT?!? " I said more than that but that was the gist of it, to which he said "touche'".

His bottom line- no, there is no one else. He is just trying to be independent. He thinks that we need to completely feel broken up. (because after all, if he had tried, he just *knows* he could have gotten in my pants tonight. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Then I got the "if I come back it will be better, blah blah blah, but I don't feel like I can come back unless we're totally separated."

I am beyond livid. To hear him say that he is "conflicted" has feelings for me AND is making a concerted effort to kill those feelings makes me sick.

I think it's time for me to go pitch f'ing black.

Edited to add that during dinner he said that he was looking into volunteering somewhere and I made a face. I had suggested that many times before and it was never met with enthusiasm. So then he says, "we could do it together". Well, that was a nice thought until he made it clear that not only was he NOT interested in working on the relationship, but in addition, was trying to make sure that there are no feelings left. Ass.

Oh ,wait. I suppose I should praise his insight. Consider him a hero for 'saving me from myself' and not "leading me on". Give him a big pat on the back for trying to kill his feelings for me. Whatta guy. I say, with my hands clasped at my chest as I look towards the sky "my hero" and then bat my eyelashes and let out a huge sigh.

[SallyM]

(((HUGS))) I'm so sorry things didn't go well. and yeah, I get the sarcasm, but its something my friend has sworn me off of, at least to H. very hard to do, but every barb drives him further away. imagine what he would have said if you had just done a complete 180? just smiled and said, oh? or something, instead. he would have gotten to the ridiculousness of not wanting to be attracted to his wife on his own....eventually.

and no, you don't have to consider him a hero...you know he's being a world class ass. but you can smile and nod and realize that the idiot doesn't know it himself.

just a thought. but trust me, initially I would have said the same thing...have lots of instances in the past few months, especially early on, where I did. but it actually feels better now that I've stopped.

[Dom R]

Today as H was leaving, he came and gave me a hug and a kiss on the lips-- and started in towards my butt and bra. And I was like "errr...excuse me?" as I wiggled away. He tried a couple more times (as I wiggled and said nope) and then gave up.

Woohooo!!!! /cheer! Way to go!

He also tried to get me to cave in with the idea that he would take me on a date later on. Nope.

right on!

bad girl on the "making out" though :p

Dont fuss about the inlaws. Just focus on you, your children, and your husband. They are a non-issue. The ONLY things that matter, are your husband, and your children. you should never decide to work on your marriage/family based on how crappy your inlaws are. your children deserve to be looked after on their own consideration.



more on the other stuff in a sec...

[Trixi]

I hear what you're saying about sarcasm and would agree in most cases; with him, though, he wants me to stick up for myself and be sassy and what he was saying was ridiculous.

While I was speaking my mind, he was sort of taken aback, but smiling, and when I finished he sorta gave a nod (acknowledgement/agreement) and said "touche'". So it wasn't like he was offended.

Ah well. It's a moot point anyway. I mean, afterall, he *is* trying to *de*tach from me. Insane.

[Dom R]

Um, yeah, I can sure see how being attracted to your wife is horrible.

Owch.

The harleys would call that an "angry outburst".
On the one hand, its probably a good thing to point out he's being a schmuck about this. on the other, being sarcastic/nasty about it, may not help.

he said, "I'm the only one he feels like dating and he is trying to make that go away."

Might have been good to confront him, in a calm way, about, "Say what? you are actively trying to dismantle our marriage, rather than just 'seeing how you feel'?"

He thinks that we need to completely feel broken up.

This is total verbal/mental diarhea.

What this says to me is, "He wants to go screw someone else. But he doesnt want to feel guilty when he does it.
Since he's already decided to do it though, he first has to make the guilt go away, by feeling that you two are "completely broken up".


I say this to YOU, as insight into how I think his mind is spinning. However, this is not a suggestion to go confront him about it.

You still have both paths available to you: the gentle path, and the "going dark" path.

In my own non-professional opinion.. you staying strong about no bootycalls, and insisting on being "dated"... could actually work out. The problem is... you're going to have to deal with his insane, lunatic babbling from time to time through the long tiring process.

I think you are actually doing great, in a very difficult situation. he IS making the effort to date you. He IS interested in you. he (supposedly) isnt dating anyone else yet.

If you "go dark"... that may or may not cause him to miss you and come back eventually... but in his current mindset, he would probably take that as exactly what he's been asking for: validation that you two are "totally separated",and he'll go find someone to screw, to "help him make up his mind".

I think the best long-term thing for your marriage, IF you can handle it, would be to keep it that way. Sure, you're resentful now... but hopefully, it will end after some number of months... and resenting him now, beats being resentful of him for the next 50 years that he went and had sex with someone else.


PS: it's too bad that you made a face at his volunteering. I am amazed that he offered that you two do it together. I really think that you should take him up on his offer.

good grief... he knows it is something that YOU wanted... he brought it up to you, specifically with that in mind i would bet.. and you snubbed him
I know you're really hurting.. but you cant go into reaction mode every time he hurts you, and miss the positive things that also come from him.

it sounds to me, like you are actually in a way better situation than might otherwise be expected.


if you do decide to accept the volunteering thing, though, you probably want to still keep it on the semi-"hard to get" line you've been taking with him. it seems to be working

not, "oo i'm soo sorry can i please do it with you", but maybe ask him about it again, and his plans. if he offers again, accept. If he doesnt offer, maybe say, "hmm.. that actually sounds nice to me".... blah blah feminine wiles, etc. I'm not female, you should be better at that sort of thing than me

[Dom R]

PS on my prior post: yeah, "sassy" probably is good. like you said.. he asked for it

And the "resentful for 50 years" bit... well, people do get over it. people do have recovered marriages after adultery, after all.
It's just more difficult.
(the ones that do, are the ones who manage to NOT actually be resentful for 50 years, in spite of the damage done)


PPS: If he's planning to go screw someone else.. he's NOT going to tell you the truth about it. So in some ways, asking him questions of that type, doesnt help, and only encourages him to get in the mindset of lying to you.
When I was talking to an MC about my own situation, he suggested that I not bother asking "Big questions", that I have no reasonable expectation of an honest answer from.
(or for that matter, questions that even if I got an answer for, werent going to help matters any).

[Trixi]

I think I didn't explain my volunteer face properly.
I made the face initially when he said he wanted to volunteer; it wasn't the right response, I know. I guess it's disappointing to have your spouse do the things you had wanted to do together and they resisted.
When he said that we could do it together, I don't think that was his original intention at all. I think it was a "spur of the moment, maybe this will make her feel better" offer. The volunteer comment was mentioned by him because of a related topic I had brought up. IOW, he did not say to me "Hey, I was thinking of volunteering-maybe that's something we could do together." If he had, the only 'face' would have been a smile on mine.

I'm not going to bring it up again, but if he does ask in the future, I will consider it.

Since he is making an effort to feel totally separated so that he can date/have sex with someone else, what am I supposed to do with that? I am certainly not going to ask him out on a date; Oh, and I think he said that he wasn't sure that he and I should be going out on dates because he wanted to feel like we were completely split up. Seems like he has already figured out how to accomplish his goal and recognizes that being in contact with me will hamper that.

Another thing he said that offends the he11 out of me "I totally believe in the Secret and am open to seeing what will come to me." It offends me because he could have used 'the Secret' to help create whatever it was that was missing in our marriage. But no, he is using it to go and try to find someone new. I am not jumping to conclusions on that one; during our up and down times he had said that "maybe there is someone better out there." He clarified that he didnt mean better *than* me, just better *for* him.

I guess when I say "going dark", I just mean that I will not initiate any conversations, I will keep them short, and I will not be here when he comes over unless I am in the middle of something related to my businesses. I don't see how I can possibly stop this train; he wants to feel like we're totally broken up - how in the world can *I* put the brakes on that?

[Trixi]

PPS: If he's planning to go screw someone else.. he's NOT going to tell you the truth about it. So in some ways, asking him questions of that type, doesnt help, and only encourages him to get in the mindset of lying to you.
When I was talking to an MC about my own situation, he suggested that I not bother asking "Big questions", that I have no reasonable expectation of an honest answer from.
(or for that matter, questions that even if I got an answer for, werent going to help matters any).

I didn't ask him, he volunteered. He was the one that wanted to "talk" about what didn't happen, how he is a one woman man, isn't looking to get laid, etc. I did ask "is there someone else that you are trying to be "true" to or you are saving yourself for?" He insists there isnt. I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter since even if there isn't already someone else in the picture, he is paving the road to have someone else.