lin, thank you again for putting things into perspective. h did say he hope "she will find someone else and live happily ever after" (so he can lessen his guilt, I guess). FWIW, it was her brother who passed away, not husband, which is why my h filled the void so easily. OW was attached to the brother (she was divorced) and so she easily attached herself to my h. It's funny about the ILY which I read on this board. Many said they want the h's ILY. In my situation, h readily says ILY but I actually don't want it at this point. When he was with OW, he also said ILY and I said, "there is a second part which you omitted." and he said, "yes, IL her also". So this sucks now because he is saying lots of ILY, but I know that it's the same feeling for her. I am not sure I want "ILY" or not. May be next year he will say, "ILY, one and only" then I will be happy.
Time to get that STOP sign. thanks.
M 38, H 38, two sons Met 20 years ago Married 13 years Bomb: Oct, 2006 DB: Started in Dec, 2006 H moved out for 3 weeks in Mar, 2007 H back home and piecing?
We had a good time yesterday night. The night before we talked about R and of course, it was not a happy talk. I specifically asked him to initiate the "talk" again yesterday night so we can continue. Well, he did, with wine and snack. He did initiate but not R talk. We ended up telling each other what happened during the day. Talking about our day is one of the things that we have agreed to work on because both of us complain (him esp.) that we do not know about each other's lives. So it was good that we both took the effort to let the other person know about some details of our daily lives. It was fun, I try to make my boring day fun (note to self: gotta do some more things outside of house other than sit in front of this computer). We did not talk about R at all. Instead, we planned another mini vacation so we can get away before the upcoming big move. I really wanted to talk "issues" but thanks to all your advice I held my tongue. So it was actually a lovely evening. Looking forward to tonight. We were supposed to go to the gym but h wanted to stay home to have "couple time" again. Now I am re-reading some good advice about no R talk so I can concentrate on creating a lovely evening tonight.
M 38, H 38, two sons Met 20 years ago Married 13 years Bomb: Oct, 2006 DB: Started in Dec, 2006 H moved out for 3 weeks in Mar, 2007 H back home and piecing?
Journaling. in general things are moving along. We have been busy preparing for the move back home. This is a long distance move so there are lots of things that I need to take care of. We had a big argument last week. Basically the same old, same old. I am resentful that he is not open with me of what he is doing now, he accuses me of not giving him time. This week I am good and leave out the R talk for a few days now. I need to keep on doing this. It is tough because I can sense my anger surfacing. Good that I am reading many advices here from people about how I really need to give him time and space. We will be moving soon so I suspect this will be a trying time as I don't know what OW will do. And I don't know what H will do. While the world is small and they can still keep in touch online, the move will be a big milestone because they won't be seeing each other (regardless if they are doing now or not). So I am guessing the emotions are probably running wild for these two. Meanwhile, I am very busy as I want to catch up with all my friends before I leave (esp. those who have helped me through this past year). I know H is probably texting/emailing OW when i am not home and he is bored. But I have decided I cannot watch him all the time. If he has no respect for me and email/txt her when I am busy, that's his choice and it is his choice to damage our M.
M 38, H 38, two sons Met 20 years ago Married 13 years Bomb: Oct, 2006 DB: Started in Dec, 2006 H moved out for 3 weeks in Mar, 2007 H back home and piecing?
Hey ourcrisis - how are things going? I saw in my thread that you guys have moved. How did the move go? Getting settled in??
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
NikkiB, thanks for checking in. Time for some update. Things have been crazy with the move (not emotionally, just physically and logistically). Five weeks before our planned date to move, h decided that he wanted to pull in the move date 2 weeks earlier. So instead of having five weeks to prepare, I had three weeks. Minus one week for our planned pre-move vacation. Needless to say, I went crazy getting movers, saying good bye to friends, garage sale, etc. H claimed since his work already moved (for 1 month now, he was working remotely), he wanted to move back sooner so he can really do his real work and set up the office, etc. Part of this is true. However, I would not be surprised if he wanted to move just to get away from OW. For the last few weeks, h was honest when it came to R talk, meaning he said he wouldn't tell me anything until we moved back. Frankly, I cannot figure out what difference it would make, assuming he was not seeing her (which he claimed), and assuming he was only talking to her, on the phone or online or email. Moving or not would not affect that type of communication. But I bit my lips. Other than crying, I did not push him to tell me anything. Now we are back home. Still very busy trying to set up the house, get phone services, etc. etc. H is very busy at work. We had not talked about R. I am trying very hard to wait and let him initiate, though I know he won't. I noticed I am sliding back to being sad and unhappy and I am trying to change that and be positive in front of him. I am lucky in the sense that h is really trying and gives me lots of positive comments. ILY quite often (though I have stopped saying ILY because I keep thinking HIS "ILY" means "ILY but I love her also" and I still have bad feelings on that". H also tries to compliment me, and help me out with the kids, schedule dinners out, tell me details of his days, etc. He also tells me that "everything is his fault." "I can yell at him as much as I want." He IS TRYING. What bugs me: - he is good at telling half truths. Many times when he says / does something nice, I can't help but think that he is hiding yet another contact with OW - He is still contacting OW. I don't know about frequency or contents of the conversation. I resent the refusal/avoidance for him to be open about this. (He knows I do not want contact) - We have never really addressed why this happened. H claimed that our M was good and it just "happened" and he has learned his lesson. For me, without at least trying to figure out what went wrong, we will go back to old ways, and sooner of later, another oppourtunity will come up and he will stray again. - H also avoids "working together" with me on M. Yes, he is being nice to me. But I feel he is just working on his terms, treating me what he thinks I want to be treated. He avoids talking about his feelings (Mars MAN!!!), and avoids talking about R. He does not ask me how I feel, what I want. partly I guess it is because he knows I want details on contact with OW and he cannot comply. - I keep imagining (true or not) that he had some deal with OW that's why he refused to talk to me before our move. I should not assume but I feel very bad thinking that he still cares for OW's feelings more than mine. He feels BADLY that he hurt her. "But what about ME?" (I feel like I am a spoiled brat thinking this way)
Some of the above I know I need to let go eventually for us to be happily together. At this point in time, however, I feel like I am stuck as long as he maintains contact with OW (which to me means still having an A) And I do not know what to do. It seems like he is doing everything around the issue BUT did not address the core issue. I am VERY AFRAID that if I let this moment pass and not get our feelings out, we will slide back into old ways of not sharing feelings. We will just live like partners forever, for the sake of being together, giving up the chance to really improve our M. OTOH, I feel like I need to give him more time to let go of OW (after all, I tolerated it for months while he decided). STUCK is what I feel like right now.
M 38, H 38, two sons Met 20 years ago Married 13 years Bomb: Oct, 2006 DB: Started in Dec, 2006 H moved out for 3 weeks in Mar, 2007 H back home and piecing?
At some point a nice talk with H will be in need for you both...maybe a little glass of wine for you both to relax (as long as alcohol isn't a problem for either of you)...
He needs to understand your feelings and he needs to know you want a BETTER marriage then before...that you don't want to fall back into the old ways that led upto what happened...and NOTHING JUST HAPPENS...if that is the case then it can and will JUST HAPPEN again...
You are right in giving him time to get over her...they don't fall out of love right away...of course continued contact can drag this out...
It took my H a good year to get over the feelings for other woman enough to come home to me...and about another year after that before he could actually say he loved me...men just can't flip a switch on feelings even though it seems like they did for us when they left...
Just keep watching...wait for the right time...keep it calm...no pressure...but do let him know that eventually for you this will need to be addressed to have your own closure...and tell him you don't want to yell and scream at him...that you just want answers, honest ones, so you can move forward to a more close and wonderful relationship...and you want that for him as much as yourself and the kids....
So sorry you're feeling stuck. I really have no advice to give, except to say that because of the move, you are under a lot of stress. Get settled in to your place and new environment first. At this point, I dont think H is going anywhere, so I think time is on your side to de-stress, one issue at a time. I've read that moving and divorce are the 2 most stressful events in a person's life (lucky for me, I'll probably be going through both at the same time! Fun!). It'll take time to get things back to good. Be patient and think of how far you've come in the past year.
Take care...
M: 33 MLC/WAH: 33 M 6 yrs, together 12 2 kids: 5,2 Bomb #1: 4/06 - "I don't love you anymore", almost S Bomb #2: 7/06 - EA/PA since late 05, kicked H out/S Bomb #3: 1/07 - "No longer have any feelings for you. It's over.", living w/OW, no talk of D
I have not posted for a long time. Time for some update. I know some of you do care and I appreciate that. We moved back to our home town. So one thing for certain, H is not having PA. To h, this is "decided enough" for him to show that he wants to be with me. These few weeks, we both tried to be nice to each other. We go out on dates, I tried to invite old friends out to reconnect and it's helping somewhat. It is good to hang out with old friends that we have not seen for a while. The bad part is one of our best friends are going through difficult times, on the verge of D. So I am not sure seeing them having dinner with us but not talking to each other helps or not. It helps to see that we are trying while they are being miserable. OTOH, it may plant thoughts into H's mind that D is not so bad. However, H is still in contact with OW via phone, txt, email, etc. So there is EA. We had another argument/talk last night. I asked him why he couldn't cut off contact with OW if he already decided to be with me. From the conversation and assuming H is telling me the truth, he is very afraid to cut her off totally because she is in depression. He is very afraid that she will commit suicide because he is her only emotional support now (she has no close friend to talk to. A is a secret). H is still telling her lies (that he will be there for her). I don't know how OW can still believe this when he packed up the whole family and moved so far away, ignore her calls when he is with me/at home. Is she that lonely/desparate that she will hang on to anything? I asked H about D. He said he does not want to unless "he have to" (guessing if she threatens suicide or some other threats he will "have no choice" but to leave me). I asked him if he has a timeline to cut off contact. He said he does not know. Upon further probing, he said soon she will call him bluff (on being there for her when he shows no sign of moving, or further action). Then I am guessing H hopes that she will just back off and live her life without him. I am torn between two choices. Do I let him continue this EA, hoping all he told me is the truth and hoping that OW will leave him alone after a while (when she is no longer in depression, or find another friend to talk to?), and continue to date and have happy times with H, ignoring EA on the side? OR, do I just tell H to back off from me (He's been very nice to me, taking my occasional temper and nastiness), until he cuts off all contact with OW? I am leaning towards being nice and build happy memories with H now and wait for him or OW to make a move to end this. At the same time, I am so afraid that if H cannot be strong enough to just cut off OW, do we have a future? This may happen again with another OW, or with the same OW years down the road when our M turns rocky (according to H, our M was always good so if A can happen when things are good, how about when things are bad?) Will he be strong enough to resist another A later? Lots of thoughts are in my mind right now. Seems like H wants to be with me but just cannot cut off OW. How long can I wait for this to drag on? My love tank for him is decreasing every day. I don't know how long I can tolerate this.
M 38, H 38, two sons Met 20 years ago Married 13 years Bomb: Oct, 2006 DB: Started in Dec, 2006 H moved out for 3 weeks in Mar, 2007 H back home and piecing?
OC, Would you still describe his contact with the OW as an EA? It sounds like emotional blackmail to me--like a fatal attraction.
I think the approach you described of building connection in the M and not getting in a power struggle over his contact with her is a good one. Your H may well have gotten himself tangled-up with someone he cant't easily dispose of. Hopefully this will teach him a lesson about the mental health of those who choose to have an A.
If she's that desperate, she has no power over you and your M. Keep building on the positives. His R with her is going to self-destruct. He will need to learn how to detach from her psychiatric drama.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
That is a toughy...I would almost be inclined to call OW but then I know that is against DB'ing rules...
I think H needs to stand on his own two feet...get some counseling so he realizes that the decision for her to commit suicide has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM...she makes her own decisions...people do everyday...ask him if you got depressed and threatened to commit suicide would he end it with her??? If not then his reasoning holds no water...
What about letting you answer the calls when she calls just so "subtly" she finds out he is with you even though he is away...
She sounds like a nut job if you ask me...does he REALLY want to be her world?...what a mixed up place to live!!!
Let us know what you decide...or if you do anything...
