New and confused

[Nomopo]

Hi Puddle. I am going to try to respond to your first and last posts. If there is something in between you want me to focus on, please let me know.

DH and I have been married 10 years (we're in our late 30s) and have two kids, 7 and 4.

Us too! I'm 39. W will be next month. We have a S7 and a D4.

DH told me last week that he's having doubts about our relationship.

Well there's a positive already. You found this site pretty early after the bomb. Good for you. Took me almost two years, and I regret it.

He cried, I cried, we hugged a lot. Ours is a marriage based primarily on a caring friendship---a good thing

He still cares for you in a way - hugs, crying. He i snot indifferent, so it could be worse. And the caring friendship is also very good. Wouldn't you want that (for your kids if nothing else) even if this ends in a D? And friendship has been the basis of many success stories around here.

since our sex life has been all but nonexistent for years (my drive's much lower, never really made much of an effort to change it, he pretty much gave up).

If you haven't, you need to focus on how this led to the two of you growing apart. Intimacy is important in most (if not all) Rs. So if you pulled away sexuallt, you need to think about an address those issues. My W did too. Physical touch (including sex) is my PLL, how I feel loved. (Have you read 5LL?) That may be true for your H too. If you reconcile, the two of you will need to address this, but you can work on the issue now for you and your next R (whether that is with H or not).

But now he has a crush on someone else, and he says he wonders if there isn't someone out there with whom he'd "click" more naturally, like the same music, etc.

As and OPs are very hard to deal with. It has been especially hard for me. My advice is to try not to focus on your H's OP (if there is one) too much, except to see what he is getting from or looking for in someone else, to see if that is part of the person you were and/or want to be (again).

He's wondering if he's staying with me because he "should," and is afraid he's missing out on something and will regret it later. He says he's trying to figure out what he really wants. Though he said, "I'm not going anywhere" and "I have no desire to reinvent my life," I pushed (gently and calmly, but yes, I pushed) with, "So are you saying you're not thinking of leaving?" to which he responded, "I don't know." He said he used to think we were so reasonable, having decided to be together not based on romantic ideas but because we love and respect each other, but now he's not so sure anymore.

You have to give him some time, space and independence to figure things out. It will feel like he is leaving you, but really he is deciding what he wants to do for himself. It could lead to a D but it might not. You have to trust him to work these issues out in a way that is best for him, while you spend that same time focusing on you. Hopefully, you meet back in the middle. You can, but you will need to manage emotions and be patient.

I will also say that he, like my W was/is, seems to think there are two choices: stay and be unhappy or leave and be happy. He is missing a third choice - work on things to try to become happy together. It might not work, but it could. Here's the catch - you cannot convince him of this. Telling him is very unlikely to work, and may push him further away. He has to sort it out. Don't initiate R talks. If he brings it up and presents that dual choice, you can tell him that you see a third option and that is what you prefer to do (for the kids, to be sure, whatever), but you understand he may not choose to do that. This is going to put pressure on him, and that is not ideal. You will be tempted to force this point/opportunity. Don't, but if it does "come to you," you can make that statement but be calm, try to be matter of fact, not arguing, pleading or reasoning about it. (You should read Michele's article (linked on the home page) For the Sake of the kids.)

He says since he doesn't know what he wants and can't point to anything "wrong" that we could work on, he's not ready to discuss it with me.

He'll let you know when he is ready. It may be a while, but time is on your side if you can take off the pressure, guilt, etc. so his defensive emotions can subside some and he can start to think clearly again.

I said some other things I realize since reading DB stuff that I wasn't supposed to say: I'm totally committed to our relationship and we need to work together, I'd stop anyone from hurting our children and never dreamed that person might be you, etc. He reassured me he'd take care of us financially and I hit the roof.

Yeah, don't do these things. Especially the thing about the kids. How in the world could you stop him anyway of that is what he decides? You can't. You can only control you.

Since the initial revelation, he's been varyingly friendly but distant or just distant---no more kisses goodbye, nicknames, etc. We had been switching off evenings, one out working and one with the kids, but since last week we've both been home. Tonight he told me he wanted to go out for a beer, asked if it was okay. I said sure, told him to have a good time.

It will be distant for a while, and may get more distant (or even a S) before it gets better. And he probably doesn't want to have to ask to go get a beer. Just an FYI. That's the independence thing.

I talked to a DB phone counselor who told me to reel myself right back to the here and now and stop catastrophizing, work on me, act as if. I'm totally down with the first two, but the latter is making me feel like a bit of a dip. I'm always fairly cheerful, so acting as if makes me feel like I look like I'm in denial or I don't care.

You got great advice - who is your coach? You have to be as if - so you can be attractive to H. Sad, depressed, pathetic and dependent is not attractive. Also, fake it until you make it. You will start to feel better slowly but surely. You are still early into all of this. Hang in there. Remember, time is on your side. (FWIW, you sound very good to be for being such a newbie.)

Am I seriously not supposed to be thinking about the possibility of him leaving? or just not talking about it with him?

It is the latter, at least initially. Eventually you will think of it less and that is often when they really start to come back around (so I have heard, and believe).

I spent a good long while today asking myself what I'm really afraid of, what do *I* want from life

These are excellent questions and they will help you become stronger and healthier.

could I ever stay with someone who would leave his children, which would cause me to lose all respect for him?

I don't care for this question so much (though I am sure I asked myself that question before). Look - put yourself in his shoes. He is likely very very very unhappy, hurt, angry or whatever. And he probably has serious doubts about fixing things (even he isn't convinced they can't be fixed). Now is he right - probably not, but you have to understand he most likely truly feels this way and has for some time. If you honestly felt that way, you would probably be asking yourself the same question Should he really have to be like that for the kids? And it you two really don't have a loving relationship, but just a platonic friendship, is that what you want to teach your kids about marriage and love? I know it will damage the kids - it has mine that we are S. But don't let your anger about that cloud what is happening and what may need to happen. The potential effect on them is tragic, but so is the effect on you having to hear that he doesn't love you, etc. He likely feels very guilty about it. Now, move past your anger about it and focus on what you can do for you (and, consequently, to save your M).

I'm not sure what to do except to experiment and observe.

Yep, a little stuff at first as far as between you and H. Mainly, focus on you.

The thing he seems to be lacking, "connection," is something he doesn't seem to want from me right now.

Right - give him time, space and independence. He wants it. He needs it. And focus on you. And GAL.

He did say he'd noticed my behavior changing but that it had utterly failed to touch him.

Utter BS. Keep it up. It will "touch him." That's classic alien spew. Ignore it completely and keep making changes for YOU. Those changes will also give you the best shot to save your M.

Will, I've been thinking a lot about what (if anything) to ask DH for right now. I just had a jarring talk with a friend who suggested I ask him to agree to hold off seeing anyone for one year to "give me a chance for this to sink in." I think if I asked him for a year to see if his feelings change---which is what I really mean---he wouldn't agree to that, and, in fact, I know that he doesn't want to miss an opportunity to "connect" with someone if he finds that person. I haven't asked for anything yet, I've been leaving it all up to him, but this talk freaked me out a little.

Do not ask him for this! It will not work! And it will likely make things worse. He will feel trapped. He will feel like you don't want him to be happy (I know - crazy, but that is likely how he is feeling.) Focus on you. BTW, your friend sounds like a civilian unfamiliar with DB. That kind of support can hurt your chances.

Hi Puddle. I am going to try to respond to your first and last posts. If there is something in between you want me to focus on, please let me know.

DH and I have been married 10 years (we're in our late 30s) and have two kids, 7 and 4.

Us too! I'm 39. W will be next month. We have a S7 and a D4.

DH told me last week that he's having doubts about our relationship.

Well there's a positive already. You found this site pretty early after the bomb. Good for you. Took me almost two years, and I regret it.

He cried, I cried, we hugged a lot. Ours is a marriage based primarily on a caring friendship---a good thing

He still cares for you in a way - hugs, crying. He i snot indifferent, so it could be worse. And the caring friendship is also very good. Wouldn't you want that (for your kids if nothing else) even if this ends in a D? And friendship has been the basis of many success stories around here.

since our sex life has been all but nonexistent for years (my drive's much lower, never really made much of an effort to change it, he pretty much gave up).

If you haven't, you need to focus on how this led to the two of you growing apart. Intimacy is important in most (if not all) Rs. So if you pulled away sexuallt, you need to think about an address those issues. My W did too. Physical touch (including sex) is my PLL, how I feel loved. (Have you read 5LL?) That may be true for your H too. If you reconcile, the two of you will need to address this, but you can work on the issue now for you and your next R (whether that is with H or not).

But now he has a crush on someone else, and he says he wonders if there isn't someone out there with whom he'd "click" more naturally, like the same music, etc.

As and OPs are very hard to deal with. It has been especially hard for me. My advice is to try not to focus on your H's OP (if there is one) too much, except to see what he is getting from or looking for in someone else, to see if that is part of the person you were and/or want to be (again).

He's wondering if he's staying with me because he "should," and is afraid he's missing out on something and will regret it later. He says he's trying to figure out what he really wants. Though he said, "I'm not going anywhere" and "I have no desire to reinvent my life," I pushed (gently and calmly, but yes, I pushed) with, "So are you saying you're not thinking of leaving?" to which he responded, "I don't know." He said he used to think we were so reasonable, having decided to be together not based on romantic ideas but because we love and respect each other, but now he's not so sure anymore.

You have to give him some time, space and independence to figure things out. It will feel like he is leaving you, but really he is deciding what he wants to do for himself. It could lead to a D but it might not. You have to trust him to work these issues out in a way that is best for him, while you spend that same time focusing on you. Hopefully, you meet back in the middle. You can, but you will need to manage emotions and be patient.

I will also say that he, like my W was/is, seems to think there are two choices: stay and be unhappy or leave and be happy. He is missing a third choice - work on things to try to become happy together. It might not work, but it could. Here's the catch - you cannot convince him of this. Telling him is very unlikely to work, and may push him further away. He has to sort it out. Don't initiate R talks. If he brings it up and presents that dual choice, you can tell him that you see a third option and that is what you prefer to do (for the kids, to be sure, whatever), but you understand he may not choose to do that. This is going to put pressure on him, and that is not ideal. You will be tempted to force this point/opportunity. Don't, but if it does "come to you," you can make that statement but be calm, try to be matter of fact, not arguing, pleading or reasoning about it. (You should read Michele's article (linked on the home page) For the Sake of the kids.)

He says since he doesn't know what he wants and can't point to anything "wrong" that we could work on, he's not ready to discuss it with me.

He'll let you know when he is ready. It may be a while, but time is on your side if you can take off the pressure, guilt, etc. so his defensive emotions can subside some and he can start to think clearly again.

I said some other things I realize since reading DB stuff that I wasn't supposed to say: I'm totally committed to our relationship and we need to work together, I'd stop anyone from hurting our children and never dreamed that person might be you, etc. He reassured me he'd take care of us financially and I hit the roof.

Yeah, don't do these things. Especially the thing about the kids. How in the world could you stop him anyway of that is what he decides? You can't. You can only control you.

Since the initial revelation, he's been varyingly friendly but distant or just distant---no more kisses goodbye, nicknames, etc. We had been switching off evenings, one out working and one with the kids, but since last week we've both been home. Tonight he told me he wanted to go out for a beer, asked if it was okay. I said sure, told him to have a good time.

It will be distant for a while, and may get more distant (or even a S) before it gets better. And he probably doesn't want to have to ask to go get a beer. Just an FYI. That's the independence thing.

I talked to a DB phone counselor who told me to reel myself right back to the here and now and stop catastrophizing, work on me, act as if. I'm totally down with the first two, but the latter is making me feel like a bit of a dip. I'm always fairly cheerful, so acting as if makes me feel like I look like I'm in denial or I don't care.

You got great advice - who is your coach? You have to be as if - so you can be attractive to H. Sad, depressed, pathetic and dependent is not attractive. Also, fake it until you make it. You will start to feel better slowly but surely. You are still early into all of this. Hang in there. Remember, time is on your side. (FWIW, you sound very good to be for being such a newbie.)

Am I seriously not supposed to be thinking about the possibility of him leaving? or just not talking about it with him?

It is the latter, at least initially. Eventually you will think of it less and that is often when they really start to come back around (so I have heard, and believe).

I spent a good long while today asking myself what I'm really afraid of, what do *I* want from life

These are excellent questions and they will help you become stronger and healthier.

could I ever stay with someone who would leave his children, which would cause me to lose all respect for him?

I don't care for this question so much (though I am sure I asked myself that question before). Look - put yourself in his shoes. He is likely very very very unhappy, hurt, angry or whatever. And he probably has serious doubts about fixing things (even he isn't convinced they can't be fixed). Now is he right - probably not, but you have to understand he most likely truly feels this way and has for some time. If you honestly felt that way, you would probably be asking yourself the same question Should he really have to be like that for the kids? And it you two really don't have a loving relationship, but just a platonic friendship, is that what you want to teach your kids about marriage and love? I know it will damage the kids - it has mine that we are S. But don't let your anger about that cloud what is happening and what may need to happen. The potential effect on them is tragic, but so is the effect on you having to hear that he doesn't love you, etc. He likely feels very guilty about it. Now, move past your anger about it and focus on what you can do for you (and, consequently, to save your M).

I'm not sure what to do except to experiment and observe.

Yep, a little stuff at first as far as between you and H. Mainly, focus on you.

The thing he seems to be lacking, "connection," is something he doesn't seem to want from me right now.

Right - give him time, space and independence. He wants it. He needs it. And focus on you. And GAL.

He did say he'd noticed my behavior changing but that it had utterly failed to touch him.

Utter BS. Keep it up. It will "touch him." That's classic alien spew. Ignore it completely and keep making changes for YOU. Those changes will also give you the best shot to save your M.

We're in a friendly spot right now: DH is feeling relieved since he's come clean and I've got ahold of myself. I'm not ready to ask for anything, haven't thought about it enough. What have others done?

Don't ask for anything right now. Your needs have to go on hold for quite a while. Sorry, but true. He is not interested in meeting your emotional, R needs now. If you need something for the kids ok, or financially, ok, but only if important enough and business. No R Talks!!!!

BTW, the friendly spot is good. You want friendly, stress-free interactions with him now. He is deciding whether or not to walk away for good. When he makes that decision, you want him to have positive associations/iamges of you in his mind. Make sense?

Hi Puddle. I am going to try to respond to your first and last posts. If there is something in between you want me to focus on, please let me know.

DH and I have been married 10 years (we're in our late 30s) and have two kids, 7 and 4.

Us too! I'm 39. W will be next month. We have a S7 and a D4.

DH told me last week that he's having doubts about our relationship.

Well there's a positive already. You found this site pretty early after the bomb. Good for you. Took me almost two years, and I regret it.

He cried, I cried, we hugged a lot. Ours is a marriage based primarily on a caring friendship---a good thing

He still cares for you in a way - hugs, crying. He i snot indifferent, so it could be worse. And the caring friendship is also very good. Wouldn't you want that (for your kids if nothing else) even if this ends in a D? And friendship has been the basis of many success stories around here.

since our sex life has been all but nonexistent for years (my drive's much lower, never really made much of an effort to change it, he pretty much gave up).

If you haven't, you need to focus on how this led to the two of you growing apart. Intimacy is important in most (if not all) Rs. So if you pulled away sexuallt, you need to think about an address those issues. My W did too. Physical touch (including sex) is my PLL, how I feel loved. (Have you read 5LL?) That may be true for your H too. If you reconcile, the two of you will need to address this, but you can work on the issue now for you and your next R (whether that is with H or not).

But now he has a crush on someone else, and he says he wonders if there isn't someone out there with whom he'd "click" more naturally, like the same music, etc.

As and OPs are very hard to deal with. It has been especially hard for me. My advice is to try not to focus on your H's OP (if there is one) too much, except to see what he is getting from or looking for in someone else, to see if that is part of the person you were and/or want to be (again).

He's wondering if he's staying with me because he "should," and is afraid he's missing out on something and will regret it later. He says he's trying to figure out what he really wants. Though he said, "I'm not going anywhere" and "I have no desire to reinvent my life," I pushed (gently and calmly, but yes, I pushed) with, "So are you saying you're not thinking of leaving?" to which he responded, "I don't know." He said he used to think we were so reasonable, having decided to be together not based on romantic ideas but because we love and respect each other, but now he's not so sure anymore.

You have to give him some time, space and independence to figure things out. It will feel like he is leaving you, but really he is deciding what he wants to do for himself. It could lead to a D but it might not. You have to trust him to work these issues out in a way that is best for him, while you spend that same time focusing on you. Hopefully, you meet back in the middle. You can, but you will need to manage emotions and be patient.

I will also say that he, like my W was/is, seems to think there are two choices: stay and be unhappy or leave and be happy. He is missing a third choice - work on things to try to become happy together. It might not work, but it could. Here's the catch - you cannot convince him of this. Telling him is very unlikely to work, and may push him further away. He has to sort it out. Don't initiate R talks. If he brings it up and presents that dual choice, you can tell him that you see a third option and that is what you prefer to do (for the kids, to be sure, whatever), but you understand he may not choose to do that. This is going to put pressure on him, and that is not ideal. You will be tempted to force this point/opportunity. Don't, but if it does "come to you," you can make that statement but be calm, try to be matter of fact, not arguing, pleading or reasoning about it. (You should read Michele's article (linked on the home page) For the Sake of the kids.)

He says since he doesn't know what he wants and can't point to anything "wrong" that we could work on, he's not ready to discuss it with me.

He'll let you know when he is ready. It may be a while, but time is on your side if you can take off the pressure, guilt, etc. so his defensive emotions can subside some and he can start to think clearly again.

I said some other things I realize since reading DB stuff that I wasn't supposed to say: I'm totally committed to our relationship and we need to work together, I'd stop anyone from hurting our children and never dreamed that person might be you, etc. He reassured me he'd take care of us financially and I hit the roof.

Yeah, don't do these things. Especially the thing about the kids. How in the world could you stop him anyway of that is what he decides? You can't. You can only control you.

Since the initial revelation, he's been varyingly friendly but distant or just distant---no more kisses goodbye, nicknames, etc. We had been switching off evenings, one out working and one with the kids, but since last week we've both been home. Tonight he told me he wanted to go out for a beer, asked if it was okay. I said sure, told him to have a good time.

It will be distant for a while, and may get more distant (or even a S) before it gets better. And he probably doesn't want to have to ask to go get a beer. Just an FYI. That's the independence thing.

I talked to a DB phone counselor who told me to reel myself right back to the here and now and stop catastrophizing, work on me, act as if. I'm totally down with the first two, but the latter is making me feel like a bit of a dip. I'm always fairly cheerful, so acting as if makes me feel like I look like I'm in denial or I don't care.

You got great advice - who is your coach? You have to be as if - so you can be attractive to H. Sad, depressed, pathetic and dependent is not attractive. Also, fake it until you make it. You will start to feel better slowly but surely. You are still early into all of this. Hang in there. Remember, time is on your side. (FWIW, you sound very good to be for being such a newbie.)

Am I seriously not supposed to be thinking about the possibility of him leaving? or just not talking about it with him?

It is the latter, at least initially. Eventually you will think of it less and that is often when they really start to come back around (so I have heard, and believe).

I spent a good long while today asking myself what I'm really afraid of, what do *I* want from life

These are excellent questions and they will help you become stronger and healthier.

could I ever stay with someone who would leave his children, which would cause me to lose all respect for him?

I don't care for this question so much (though I am sure I asked myself that question before). Look - put yourself in his shoes. He is likely very very very unhappy, hurt, angry or whatever. And he probably has serious doubts about fixing things (even he isn't convinced they can't be fixed). Now is he right - probably not, but you have to understand he most likely truly feels this way and has for some time. If you honestly felt that way, you would probably be asking yourself the same question Should he really have to be like that for the kids? And it you two really don't have a loving relationship, but just a platonic friendship, is that what you want to teach your kids about marriage and love? I know it will damage the kids - it has mine that we are S. But don't let your anger about that cloud what is happening and what may need to happen. The potential effect on them is tragic, but so is the effect on you having to hear that he doesn't love you, etc. He likely feels very guilty about it. Now, move past your anger about it and focus on what you can do for you (and, consequently, to save your M).

I'm not sure what to do except to experiment and observe.

Yep, a little stuff at first as far as between you and H. Mainly, focus on you.

The thing he seems to be lacking, "connection," is something he doesn't seem to want from me right now.

Right - give him time, space and independence. He wants it. He needs it. And focus on you. And GAL.

He did say he'd noticed my behavior changing but that it had utterly failed to touch him.

Utter BS. Keep it up. It will "touch him." That's classic alien spew. Ignore it completely and keep making changes for YOU. Those changes will also give you the best shot to save your M.

The other thing my friend mentioned was making sure that the kids and I are provided for financially. I don't think DH has thought that far ahead (I know I haven't!), says he'd be sure we were fine, but I don't think he's considered the possibility that he may be responsible for two households (his and ours), and if he meets someone else and wants to begin a family, his promise to take care of us might not seem so attractive (especially to another partner).

Is there some reason you need to bring this up now? Don't force things. Be patient. Your friend sounds like s/he is trying to scare or shock H into comong around. It won't work, and might her. And if it did work, would you feel secure in your M? No. You want him back for the right reasons, and when he is sure, and when he has worked through all his issues.

Hi Puddle. I am going to try to respond to your first and last posts. If there is something in between you want me to focus on, please let me know.

DH and I have been married 10 years (we're in our late 30s) and have two kids, 7 and 4.

Us too! I'm 39. W will be next month. We have a S7 and a D4.

DH told me last week that he's having doubts about our relationship.

Well there's a positive already. You found this site pretty early after the bomb. Good for you. Took me almost two years, and I regret it.

He cried, I cried, we hugged a lot. Ours is a marriage based primarily on a caring friendship---a good thing

He still cares for you in a way - hugs, crying. He i snot indifferent, so it could be worse. And the caring friendship is also very good. Wouldn't you want that (for your kids if nothing else) even if this ends in a D? And friendship has been the basis of many success stories around here.

since our sex life has been all but nonexistent for years (my drive's much lower, never really made much of an effort to change it, he pretty much gave up).

If you haven't, you need to focus on how this led to the two of you growing apart. Intimacy is important in most (if not all) Rs. So if you pulled away sexuallt, you need to think about an address those issues. My W did too. Physical touch (including sex) is my PLL, how I feel loved. (Have you read 5LL?) That may be true for your H too. If you reconcile, the two of you will need to address this, but you can work on the issue now for you and your next R (whether that is with H or not).

But now he has a crush on someone else, and he says he wonders if there isn't someone out there with whom he'd "click" more naturally, like the same music, etc.

As and OPs are very hard to deal with. It has been especially hard for me. My advice is to try not to focus on your H's OP (if there is one) too much, except to see what he is getting from or looking for in someone else, to see if that is part of the person you were and/or want to be (again).

He's wondering if he's staying with me because he "should," and is afraid he's missing out on something and will regret it later. He says he's trying to figure out what he really wants. Though he said, "I'm not going anywhere" and "I have no desire to reinvent my life," I pushed (gently and calmly, but yes, I pushed) with, "So are you saying you're not thinking of leaving?" to which he responded, "I don't know." He said he used to think we were so reasonable, having decided to be together not based on romantic ideas but because we love and respect each other, but now he's not so sure anymore.

You have to give him some time, space and independence to figure things out. It will feel like he is leaving you, but really he is deciding what he wants to do for himself. It could lead to a D but it might not. You have to trust him to work these issues out in a way that is best for him, while you spend that same time focusing on you. Hopefully, you meet back in the middle. You can, but you will need to manage emotions and be patient.

I will also say that he, like my W was/is, seems to think there are two choices: stay and be unhappy or leave and be happy. He is missing a third choice - work on things to try to become happy together. It might not work, but it could. Here's the catch - you cannot convince him of this. Telling him is very unlikely to work, and may push him further away. He has to sort it out. Don't initiate R talks. If he brings it up and presents that dual choice, you can tell him that you see a third option and that is what you prefer to do (for the kids, to be sure, whatever), but you understand he may not choose to do that. This is going to put pressure on him, and that is not ideal. You will be tempted to force this point/opportunity. Don't, but if it does "come to you," you can make that statement but be calm, try to be matter of fact, not arguing, pleading or reasoning about it. (You should read Michele's article (linked on the home page) For the Sake of the kids.)

He says since he doesn't know what he wants and can't point to anything "wrong" that we could work on, he's not ready to discuss it with me.

He'll let you know when he is ready. It may be a while, but time is on your side if you can take off the pressure, guilt, etc. so his defensive emotions can subside some and he can start to think clearly again.

I said some other things I realize since reading DB stuff that I wasn't supposed to say: I'm totally committed to our relationship and we need to work together, I'd stop anyone from hurting our children and never dreamed that person might be you, etc. He reassured me he'd take care of us financially and I hit the roof.

Yeah, don't do these things. Especially the thing about the kids. How in the world could you stop him anyway of that is what he decides? You can't. You can only control you.

Since the initial revelation, he's been varyingly friendly but distant or just distant---no more kisses goodbye, nicknames, etc. We had been switching off evenings, one out working and one with the kids, but since last week we've both been home. Tonight he told me he wanted to go out for a beer, asked if it was okay. I said sure, told him to have a good time.

It will be distant for a while, and may get more distant (or even a S) before it gets better. And he probably doesn't want to have to ask to go get a beer. Just an FYI. That's the independence thing.

I talked to a DB phone counselor who told me to reel myself right back to the here and now and stop catastrophizing, work on me, act as if. I'm totally down with the first two, but the latter is making me feel like a bit of a dip. I'm always fairly cheerful, so acting as if makes me feel like I look like I'm in denial or I don't care.

You got great advice - who is your coach? You have to be as if - so you can be attractive to H. Sad, depressed, pathetic and dependent is not attractive. Also, fake it until you make it. You will start to feel better slowly but surely. You are still early into all of this. Hang in there. Remember, time is on your side. (FWIW, you sound very good to be for being such a newbie.)

Am I seriously not supposed to be thinking about the possibility of him leaving? or just not talking about it with him?

It is the latter, at least initially. Eventually you will think of it less and that is often when they really start to come back around (so I have heard, and believe).

I spent a good long while today asking myself what I'm really afraid of, what do *I* want from life

These are excellent questions and they will help you become stronger and healthier.

could I ever stay with someone who would leave his children, which would cause me to lose all respect for him?

I don't care for this question so much (though I am sure I asked myself that question before). Look - put yourself in his shoes. He is likely very very very unhappy, hurt, angry or whatever. And he probably has serious doubts about fixing things (even he isn't convinced they can't be fixed). Now is he right - probably not, but you have to understand he most likely truly feels this way and has for some time. If you honestly felt that way, you would probably be asking yourself the same question Should he really have to be like that for the kids? And it you two really don't have a loving relationship, but just a platonic friendship, is that what you want to teach your kids about marriage and love? I know it will damage the kids - it has mine that we are S. But don't let your anger about that cloud what is happening and what may need to happen. The potential effect on them is tragic, but so is the effect on you having to hear that he doesn't love you, etc. He likely feels very guilty about it. Now, move past your anger about it and focus on what you can do for you (and, consequently, to save your M).

I'm not sure what to do except to experiment and observe.

Yep, a little stuff at first as far as between you and H. Mainly, focus on you.

The thing he seems to be lacking, "connection," is something he doesn't seem to want from me right now.

Right - give him time, space and independence. He wants it. He needs it. And focus on you. And GAL.

He did say he'd noticed my behavior changing but that it had utterly failed to touch him.

Utter BS. Keep it up. It will "touch him." That's classic alien spew. Ignore it completely and keep making changes for YOU. Those changes will also give you the best shot to save your M.

What have others (especially non-bread winners) done about this?

It would not be crazy at all to consult a lawyer (or internet websites) to learn your rights in the event of a D. You should be prepared. But you should do this on your own, for your own info, and not bring it up with H until you have to or he does, and even then you pretty much listen to him rather than sharing info with him and trying to influence/scare/control him.

Hope it helps Puddle. Hang in there, ok?
Nomo

PS - and keep posting and reading and learning. You're doing fine, and you will be fine. No, you'll be great (believe it or not).