For me to 'fish for a compliment' from him would be my own attempt to 'fuse' with him. Anything he might deliver after my 'fishing' will not feel genuine, to both he and I, because I am prompting him to give it. He now cannot give freely, and with feeling, for in my 'fishing,' I have robbed him of the opportunity. Replace "compliment" with "desire" or "sex" and you have what HD people have to deal with. As soon as us HD's ASK for desire, we have in effect made it impossible for the LD person to be successful.
I don't think there's anything wrong with fishing for a compliment. It comes under the heading of asking for what you want and refraining from expecting the other person to read your mind.
If something is important to you and you want it, how is the other person going to know unless you speak up?
So where would you draw the line Lil from needy compliment fishing of the "does my bum look big in this?" variety to a straightforward asking for what you want?
Personally I don't think compliments are compliments if they are fished for. That said I do sometimes do it myself if I am feeling somewhat compliment starved.
The way I fish is by saying things like "well that was good though I say it myself" or "I must say I'm looking pretty damn hot in these jeans" and then usually H will chip in with a "oh sorry, yes it was/you look great". But it's not the same as him saying it with no prompting.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I don't think you can "draw a line"... it's a flow thing, a case-by-case thing.
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Personally I don't think compliments are compliments if they are fished for.
I think this is too categorical a statement. Yeah, as I said, spontaneous compliments are nice, but it's unrealistic to think that your partner will always know/notice when a compliment is particularly important to you.
I'm just saying that if you're wearing something special, or cooked something special, or performed at work/choir/sports particularly well, and for some reason, it didn't show up on your spouse's radar, there's nothing wrong with asking.
What if he went out fishing and caught the biggest fish of his life and you don't care about fishing... and he had to prompt you that this was something important... would it mean less if you said, "Now that I know how important this is to you, of course! Congratulations on the biggest [name fish] you ever caught!" (This is exactly the situation between me and my late H, who caught the biggest redfish of his life about four months before he died. I have the picture of him and the fish framed on the living room wall.)
Or are you only talking about compliments on appearance?
I remember how excited I was the first time I got published. I still remember the feeling, and it is one I cannot describe. The very first person I wanted to tell was my xH.
I ran over to his office, and I could barely contain my excitement. His response was..."congratulations... I think that's great... I have to get back to work."
Talk about going from immense high to immense low in 2.3 seconds. He sh!t all over me... and you know what? It wasn't his fault... it was mine. I was seeking validation from him. I wanted him to be excited for me, and since I wanted that... and his response didn't come close to what I expected... I let it hurt me.
An argument could be made that his response was lacking... but it was my accomplishment, my excitement, and had I been more self-validating at the time, the mere fact that I had gotten published would have been my reward... and my xH's lack of enthusiastic response would not have mattered to me. Instead, I sought his approval, and put his response 'value' above my own. I gave him power he neither wanted nor asked for... I set him up (unconsciously, but I still did it), and because he didn't respond as I thought he should, he failed.
This is what I am talking about, and HDs do this to their partners all the time. It is not a criticism, it is an observation... and it is what "No More Mr. Nice Guy" focuses on, in a very big way.
I think female HDs do this to their partners in a slightly different way than the guys... but... I think they still do it.
It is extremely unattractive, and it kills energy flow between partners.
Fishing for compliments is a long term habit of mine. I'm trying to reprogram in this brave new Schnarchian world of differentiation.
There are so many nuances to this, though. There's the needy, fused, "How do I look?", which can mean anything from "I think I look good but my opinion means nothing unless confirmed by yours" to "I think I look lousy but maybe if you tell me I look good I'll feel better" to "I'm so damn fused I don't even know anymore".
On the other hand, "How do I look?" could also mean "I think I look smokin' hot but would welcome a man's perspective" or "Are these the best possible earrings for this outfit?" Which is not particularly fused. In which case, though, it's probably better to phrase it those more specific ways ....
I think the affirmative self-compliment can be just as fishy-fused as straight out asking ... *IF* you expect your partner to verbally concur. If you can get to the point where you can *honestly* say "Look out, world, I look FANTASTIC!!!" and have that mean something to you with or without your partner's response .... super. In which case it's probably better to do it in the mirror, by yourself.... speaking for myself anyhow, it's tough for me not to question my motives if I do it the hearing of S.
I don't know how well fishing works as "asking for what you want", either, Lillie ... I do see your logic, but like Corri, if I have to ask for it, will I ever quite believe it? Perhaps he was just unobservant and does think I look great, cooked the perfect meal, whatever ... but on the other hand, if I ask or fish, maybe I'm just putting words in his mouth, or worse, pressuring him to say something positive he doesn't really mean. Either way, it can feel kind of empty .....
Read some more of what everyone said, and you make a good point, Lillie. If it's something abstruse in your area of specialization, it can't hurt to explain WHY it's such a big deal to you. Seems like that would come naturally anyhow. But like Corri said, at that point whether or not their enthusiasm is forthcoming shouldn't (does too often, but shouldn't) lessen your joy.
Can you tell I'm just at the beginning of all this differentiating stuff and overthinking it just a tad? grin ....
However, I think asking or fishing for *sex* can be totally different. It depends on the relationship. Unless one partner hates sex and never ever wants is, *both* partners are potentially going to get something out of it. In which case saying "Do you want to get horizontal?" is much more like saying "Do you want to go get ice cream?" than "Do I look good in this?" Even if the person doesn't always want ice cream when you do, they do *sometimes*, so it's not one-sided/needy/validation-seeking of you to ask.
Asking for "mercy sex" however, is a completely different kettle of ... fish.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I see your point that actively fishing for compliments and NEEDING a positive response that matches or exceeds your own internal response can be destructive to a relationship. In an LTR, a different sort of problem can arise. Even though one person may be good at self-validating, if the other person never acknowledges/praises/validates, then the hole can be damaging to the R. I can see how one could be crushed by their SO not acknowledging some big accomplishment, but you can get over it. But if there is a pattern of never validating, it can lead to resentment, distance, and most troublesome of all, validation from OP.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I can see how one could be crushed by their SO not acknowledging some big accomplishment, but you can get over it. But if there is a pattern of never validating, it can lead to resentment, distance, and most troublesome of all, validation from OP.
Shrug. It can. And if you cannot accept, validate and assume responsibility for your own needs, you probably will become manipulative and covert in getting those needs met. In so doing, it is still going to feel empty to you.
That is where most people describe their M as a Catch 22.
However. There is no paradox IF one has the courage to be honest, with themselves and others, accept responsibility for their life, and BE, with honest action and intent, Who They Are.
It's not manipulative and covert to ask for something that's important to you.
"Needy" is such a dirty word. I agree that most of the stuff we think we need is stuff that we want that we could in fact live without. But acknowledging to our partner that we want certain things and that certain things are important are ways of making ourselves vulnerable. So when our partner is cold and indifferent to our requests, let's just call it that instead of faulting ourselves for being "needy."
I remember a couple I knew (I was close friends with the W, but knew both people pretty well), and the W was pulling away emotionally. She said she didn't like to ask her H for things because that strengthened the connection between them and she was trying to loosen it. Asking for something is a very defenseless, vulnerable, open thing to do.
