How do you know when it's time to give up

[robisonj]

My husband and I have been married for nearly 10 years, three kids: 6, 3, and 7 months. We have been separated for 6 months, but have been in real crisis for about a year and a half. There have been affairs on both our parts. I realized the error of my ways a year and a half ago. I have been trying everything since then to make things work (at least I thought so.) I finally read Michelle's books DB and DR two months ago when my husband told me again that this was not working and he did want a divorce.

So I've been DB for two months and trying to keep track of the small positive steps. I've done two phone coaching sessions too. I've given him his space, try not to call him or email him, and made sure to give him ample time with the children when I am not around. I talked to some of our friends and let them know that eventhough he wants a divorce, I'm fighting for our marriage. They look at me with such pity.

Two days ago he told me that there is someone else. Not an affair yet, but they talk and email a lot. There are other women, sex parties, etc. He told me this so that I would quit trying: it is never going to work. He doesn't love me in a romantic way anymore and he believes that we are just not meant together. I asked him how he could make such a decision without aid of counseling or without really trying. He told me that he had tried (which is hard to do when one is addicted to all the personal adds on craigslist...) and that he is at peace with God regarding his decision.

For the first time, I truly feel like I should throw in the towel. There is that one chapter in DR that talks about how some people really do mean it when they say it's over; there's nothing you can do to change their minds. I told him I still believed it could work and that I will continue to feel that way. I believe we should at least try because we have three children (yes, these are all statements my coach would not be completely happy with...)

He wants to file this week. I'm surprised he hasn't already. That is about the only positive still going. We are supposed to meet with a mediator next week: oddly enough he chose our very pro-marriage counselor we saw last year. Probably just because he is comfortable with him.

Any words of wisdom? I can keep the door open to this relationship, but I'm starting to feel that both my children and I deserve something better; someone who will treat us with love and respect.

He hasn't told me he loves me for just about a year, either - don't know if that makes a difference.

[EAA]

I don't know that this is the advice you're looking for, but....Are you CONVINCED it's over? Or, are you absolutely positive that he's convinced? If you are, on either front, then maybe it is time to throw in the towel. Somebody has to believe in it. At present, you know he does not. Do you? If you don't, then I suppose it's time to move on. But if you still believe in your M, go for it. Keep DBing until the last moment. It's really up to you. Every marriage has something worth saving. The question for you is, what do you want? Is there something there to make it worth the effort for you? Define what you're fighting for. Sit down and really figure it out. Write notes. If there's a hint of anything worth saving, I say keep DBing. If nothing else, when your kids are older, you can tell them that you tried as hard as any human could.

EAA

[PainX2]

Please try to hang in there at least until YOU feel it is over.

[kassie]

Hi, I'm new but I couldn't help but want to sent some thoughts to you. I think it is over when you decide it is over - I don't believe relationships ever really end just because of a divorce and when children are involved it is the same. Anyway, I believe that when marriages breakdown it is because the old patterns have run their course. As long as we are alive, it is natural to grow and growth requires changes. When we fight those natural changes things begin to breakdown. The breakdown is just a signal that things need to move in a different direction. Figuring that stuff out is the hard part for most of us which is why we are here talking it out with others on the same journey. We may all have different journey's and lessons to learn but sharing where we are and how we are doing almost always helps the next person out.
As relationships grow and change so do we and so does our partner. Sometimes the changes clash and sometimes we are on different routes but the goal/committment is to stay the course the best way we can. That means we will be redefining the meaning of our relationship many times over the course of a lifetime - ask someone who has longevity. Relationships require flexibility within the committment. Doing things differently or at least trying out new ways to react or interact will reveal what will work for this part of the journey and it will probably change again later on. So, one way of looking at changes is see them as temporary in a manner of speaking. Giving up often introduces a period of letting go of the things that are not working and encouraging a new way to imagine doing things. Hope these thoughts are helpful.
M

[kassie]

robisonj,
Hi checking in on you and what is happening? Thought I would get a response from you but that's ok. Just want to help. Any update? How are you? I don't know what it would feel like to get news like yours but can remind you that things can change in time and I think you all deserve that time. He is just exploring himself and I guess we forget that a committment to someone for a lifetime is going to have its problems. People grow in different ways and timing. It may not always feel good going through a difficult time period but when it is behind you it feels good.

Sending positive thoughts of hope.

[pauld2100]

If there is anyone out there that was in a similar situation and found a way to do the 180 or help her do the 180 and it worked please let me know. what did you do diffrent I know I have to do things to but with the current conditions there is not much opportunity for her to see any changes. if she can say she loves me and I do also then she is simply forcing herself to take these actions. there has to be a way to give a wake up call in some way before things get any worse. I know she is tring to take care of the house on her own so my help would be a great thing for her but she won't accept my help, so anyone that has lived this and found a way I need your help....

[kassie]

What is going on and what help do you want? I read that you want some suggestions on 180 work but it is easier to help when you can be specific. Time is on everyone's side so don't worry. Change occurs over time and can't be rushed. Time allows for change. Staying together under the same roof can be rough because it doesn't allow for distance and quietude. To do 180 work you have to be able to know what behavior starts the negative stuff and change that behavior. How about starting a conversation with, we are both having a rough time - we need to make changes but we also may need time to figure out what changes to make. Can we agree to take the time to id the changes needed and come up with suggestions that we can live with at least for the temporary time. Then when things calm down some, we can agree to work more closely on one thing at a time until we need to.
I would also like to ask you to make a list defining your thoughts and your emotions. Then ask yourself if they line up and make sense to you. If not, then ask yourself what could you do act in a way that is reflective of both your thoughts and feelings.
Let me know if this helps or not.

[pauld2100]

well we arent't living toghter anymore and she has started dating other people and added that I should to. I'm in no position to ask for anything. I pushed her to far and she shows no intention of trying at all... I'm at a stage that I never had to deal with before. I don't call her or anything she has sent a few massages and called a few times but it's only for little nothings. I did send her an email a while ago and told her I loved her still and she sent back that would probaly love me for the rest of her life but she can't try again and is moving on.. and she has. I think I got on here to late and have done to many things wrong that would take time to turn around. it's so far out of my hands... I have just been doing NC for over a month now. any attempt to communicate at all is quikly delt with or no responce at all.. so I stopped that. Its seems she is looking for another commitment and has had trouble with it also but has stayed steady on no seeing me so... anyway thats where I am now...

[kassie]

Dear Paul,
It's never too late - keep working on yourself and do the things you read in DB or DR book. If you haven't read -get a copy it will be specific for you. Try listing the things that you think need to change - one list for you and another for yourself -whether or not it works out. Then focus on the latter. NC should help and it sounds like you are doing well with it. Sounds like she needs it and that can be a good sign. Time allows healing and thinking and re evaluating. If you love her - keep that feeling and ask yourself each time you interact with her if you are doing the loving thing in the situation - ie giving her space for healing. Talk but do labor. I can't talk much more will respond later.
Hang in there, we will help and support you.

[pauld2100]

Thanks for being supportive!
I like to think it's not to late myself, I love her more then she knows. Maybe loving her too much is the problem. I am making changes but she even when she if she can see changes she doesn’t pay much attention to them, also not being around she wouldn’t notice anyway. Since we have been through this before she thinks its temporary and or that I am doing it so I can just get back with her. So the focus is always on my changing and she sets aside herself. She admits she has fault also and a few days after I left she said she would work on them and that was a good day. My eagerness to get back home pushed her in another direction. So it's like I'm backing off at the wrong time and now with OM in the mix... I can't believe it's too late, I am watching her force herself to believe it is. Not sure what to do she has all the cards.... I do have DB but not DR books. I have to say the way she talks when I do hear from her is creepy its like she is someone else that I never knew... people here have been saying I don’t look attractive and need to show her that I am the better alternative to the OM and I understand this they are right but with NC and her distance makes me wonder how I could be that plus the OM, she focusing more on that then anything else. From what I hear it’s not all that great but she still puts her attention there. Guess I have to see if she will wake up, but as open about her dating this guy and the way she talks is amazing. One person here Puppy is right about how things are I have hit with many 2x4’s and know my mistakes. Just wish there way a way to get her attention back…