Plank/WAW, thread 2

[Heimlich]

Well, I did it again. Should have vented here, but didn't.

We have a D mediation coming up on Thursday. Rightly or wrongly, in my mind, once we're there, there's no chance. I know other situations have turned around after that, but knowing my W, and I think I've said this before, it would take a miracle to change her mind at that point

Had a decent day today. W and girls went out and got steamed crabs. I worked outside while they picked at them -- like crabs, but not enough to get my hands that dirty. Plus, still hungry after 2 hours of work. Who needs that? Anyway, idle chit-chat with the girls and W. Couple laughs. Low key.

Once we got the girls to bed (plus one extra -- friend of my youngest), I asked her if I could tell her something. Went down to the basement.

Started off by telling her that I've been enjoying spending time with her the past 10 days or so. She mumbled assent. I then said that with the mediation coming up on Thursday, that once we go, it's really over. She said, "That's what it's for." I said, I know that, but it'll cement in your mind that there is no chance for us and I want to say this: I know that I've hurt you over the past few years and that trusting me again is scary, but I'd like a chance to show you the man that I feel like I'm becoming again. I know how you feel, but I am 100% convinced that we can have a great M and a great life together. I am in love with you more now than at any time in the past 3 or 4 years. I know that I'll be OK, but I want to be OK with you. If I didn't believe this, deep down in my heart, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. It'd be easier not to feel what I feel for you. It's be easier if I could just shut down my emotions for you or shut down my emotions like I used to. More than anything else in my life, I want to be your husband. I know that I wasn't a great husband for a while, but I can tell you know that I realize my role and want to be a true partner with you. I WANT to be your husband."

W: I don't want to be with you. In my mind it is over. I don't have anything against you, I'm just happier without you. I don't enjoy being around you. I don't like you.

M: I know, but why? You've never explained to me why. What don't you like about me?

W: The pushing for sex was huge. I have no sexual feelings for you. I also had to 'be the man' in the R. I've felt like I pulled all the weight in the R for years, when I told you I was tired, you would help, but then would return to not doing it [not totally true, but didn't argue with her]. I don't feel like myself when I'm with you.

M: You're right. However, both of those things are actions that I can change. That I want to change. Those are habits that I don't want to have anylonger. Who are you when you're not with me?

W: Stress free. Fun. Able to take on the world. When you're around, I feel like the weight of the world is on me. I get stressed. I don't believe you can change. You are who you are. It's over. I don't want to try. (What I don't understand is that there is no real indication of this. She is a little withdrawn sometimes, but not like she doesn't like being around me.)

M: I know you're like that. I want you to be like that with me. You are a good person. You are a good woman. I'm lucky to have had you in my life. I regret not being there for you like I should have been, but I believe and am convinced that if we are honest with each other, if you tell me what you like and what you don't like, which is something you never did --

W: You wouldn't have listened.

M: How do you know? You never told me.

W: (sort of got squishy) maybe

M: how long have you felt that way?

W: 2 or 3 years.

M: I just wish you would have told me. I am convinced that we can be a great couple.

W: I don't trust you to change. I don't think you can. You keep saying the same thing over and over. I'm done. I tried. I tried to put my mind there, but it didn't work. I have nothing left for you. You're pleading with me. Stop. It's not my fault you had an epiphany and expect me to welcome you back. I feel like you're manipulating me.

M: (I got a little heated here) I'm not pleading. I am asking you for a chance to show you that I am changing before we make the D process official because I'm scared that will be a point of no return for you. If you can't see the difference, then effe you. I don't feel like we've ever had a legitimate chance to fix our R. My head is out of my a$$. I am asking you to take a chance. To give us a little time to see if those feelings can come back on your part. We can't know where we would be if we had both been honest with each other. If we were telling each other how we felt and asking what we wanted. What do you want in a R? (This is something she's never been able to articulate to me.) For the first time in years, I'm speaking to you from my heart. I am not trying to manipulate you. THis is how I feel. I feel like I'm in a catch-22. I've only realized a lot of this about 8 weeks ago. We've only been together about 3 weeks since then. I just want a chance to show you before you ask me to leave. I don't want a promise. I don't expect things to be great initially, but take a chance. What do we have to lose? We are compatible in every way that's important. Plus, you're wrong. I can and will change. I'm not perfect, but I don't want to live like I was. I don't want to be like that anymore. I'm not going to. I feel like you've suffered through a lot of bad with me. I'd like you around to reap the benefits of me growing up. I know that I can't force you to love me (something she said at some point here) or that I can talk my way into a good relationship with you. I know I need to show you, but I can't show you if we're not together.

W: I don't want to try. It is over. I don't want to be with you.

M: How can you know for sure?

More of same. Few more desultory exchanges in the same vein. Basically, trying to get her to tell me what she is looking for in a R. Either she doesn't know, or she's not telling me. I did ask her if she was still in love with OM. She said no.

I was emotional, but never came close to tears. W had tears in her eyes for most of the conversation. None fell, though.

I asked her a few minutes later, and I said, I will plead on this, to think about this, but to think about what I said at face value. I just want a chance to show you that I can love you like you deserve to be loved. Told her once again that she is absolutely wrong. I will change.

I take a few things for this:
1. Nomo, Sunny, et al, I know shut up. I felt I had to take a chance though. To show her that I really want her and am willing to fight for her.
2. She just doesn't like me, but won't say it straight up. Ego prevents me from believing this one, but could be the truth.
3. She still has feeling for me, but doesn't believe I can change and is just too scared/hurt to open up to care any more.
4. She's just done.
5. My PMA is good. I feel that she is making a huge mistake and that if she won't try with us, then she is losing out.
6. I'm resigning myself to moving forward with the D process.
7. I don't think we'll start working on our R, if ever, until we are separated.
8. The longer we aren't intimate, the less attractive she becomes to me. This is weird, but it hit me today. I have always been very attracted to her, but it's the total package of personality and looks that did (do) it for me -- and I love the way she smells. Her scent. MMMMMMMMMM. However, if I were to just see her on the street, I'd think she was cute, but she's not my 'type'. Today was the first time in years I kind of critically looked at her physically and wasn't really impressed with what I saw. That normal?
9. Need to really sit down and spell out some personal goals.
10. W remains very conflict averse. Instead of telling me (from our conversation last week) that I've thought about what you said, but my feelings haven't changed. She's content to just not say anything.
11. In some ways, starting to think that my W is holding ME back. In some ways, I dumbed myself down for her so as to not intellectually intimidate her. Plus, she's not emotionally honest. She's not taken any responsibility for where we are. That extends back to after the A, when we were trying to fix things. She apologized for the A and was sincerely regretful, but never let me talk about how the A made me feel (that was throwing it in her face) or let me discuss how I felt with her -- depressed, unhappy -- and how some of her actions contributed to those feelings.
12. She has convinced herself that she cannot be happy with me.

That's it. I know, more pursuing behavior that if I read elsewhere would think "What a maroon." Part of me feels like that, part of me feels that this didn't make anything worse. I did get an emotional reaction from her (teary eyes). Of course, that could be mostly because the end of her M makes her sad too, not that she's worried about losing me.

Oh, well. Pretty bummed about the direction here. Like turning the Queen Mary without a rudder or power. Still, not giving up all hope. Keeping the ring on. I told her this somewhere in our conversation, and it's how I feel, "You still have my heart. I know that one day I'm going to wake up and not be in love with you. I don't want that, but I know it will happen if your feelings don't change."

This stinks, but I know my life is going to be better -- with our without her.

BD