Cat, ACJ...and others...I so relate to what you are saying...but keep heart...keep compassion
My H was very damaged emotionally as a child...I knew some of the horrors of the abuse but not all of it...he always assured me it was taken care of...that he was ok...well when the MLC hit...and he lost his job...felt like a failure because things didn't go his way...all hell broke loose in his life (and mine)...
I can say that even when he returned he was like a pacing caged animal...he couldn't handle the slightest disagreement even if it didn't involve him...after many many different problems coming up he did eventually get help for alcoholism, some help for past issues....and he is on AD meds...this was the biggest challenge...it took time and changing meds...not a smooth road to keep him on but now that we got the right meds for him he is doing GREAT!!!
For what it is worth I did call the OW...the first time she denied the PA and I stupidly believed her...when the proof fell in my lap I called her back (it was sometime later, not right away that I found out she lied)and I was not so nice when she didn't answer her phone...I left messages for her, her family, whoever got the messages...it wasn't pretty...but you know what???...H told me much later that my "involvement" made her feel guilty...and things started dying down (i.e. she began looking for OM and found one)...so don't feel bad about that one...it might work to your advantage...
I would really suggest to do what you can...to get H to "want" to go to the Dr and get treatment...for whatever...I know this is hard with men...but I can say that my H felt a 1000 times better when things started going right...I started by letting his doctor know what I did...his doctor took from their and talked about depression with him....H was still drinking and had a few episodes that forced me to call 9-1-1 to get him into the hospital to detox...again, the doctors talked to him...he got a lot of the crap out that he was holding in...eventually he did tell me some of the horrors that happened to him and his siblings...this is when I knew he was on the right road...one that he wouldn't have found had I given up...
So hang in there...I know it hurts...I know it is so hard...but if you "SAVE" your H...how much better in the end will you feel??
Lin, I hear what you are saying but when you are not in a position to influence your Hs behaviour what do you?
I know my H is depressed. He's never voiced it but I would lay my life on the fact that he is worrying about dying young like his father. He has a much younger OW, one that has no ties (not even any family in this country), she has so much to loose by not being with him. Because I am being a good mum to our 3 kids I am enabling his current lifestyle. If something happened to me tomorrow he would be forced to change (or give up the kids totally). That's not likely to happen and I feel I've tried everything DR suggests (except filing myself). Totally at my wits end with this M. I want it so much but it's not happening.
Me 43 XH 45 M 2.7.88 Divorce 7.10.09 Kids D20,S17 & D15
ACJ...I do know how you feel...my H moved away from me...we had 3 children also...he didn't call, send support, visit, or email but a handful of times over the 18 months he was gone...
I thought the same thing...how would he know of any changes I made...this was actually a motivating factor for me to make the changes that "I" wanted in myself...
But in the few interactions we had he did notice...I not only was a good mom but became even a better mom while he was gone...and I had written into our S/D agreement that if anything happened to me he DIDN'T get the kids...and HE SIGNED THIS!!!...he did give up everything...so don't think you are enabling his current lifestyle because you are being a good mom and doing what you need to do for you and your children...
Just keep it up...GAL...do things with your kids and friends...make changes that YOU WANT...this will empower your own feelings of self worth...because I know how low I got...it wasn't a pretty sight...
The thing I'm struggling with most is mentally letting go. I have made changes (hopefully for the better), I am doing GAL activities. The friends I had went with H and so I am making great strides in making new ones. I know I'm not letting them in though - that's always been a downfall of mine. I think I've become a better mum but my children would most likely disagree with that!
I don't know if H is noticing any of this. He only speaks to me when he really has to and quite obviously isn't comfortable in my company. I've stopped contacting him at his request and also b/c when I did his OW responded which really wound me up. Lack of self worth has been a lifetime problem for me so I guess that's why I'm struggling so much now (and I'm not a pretty sight either!)
Me 43 XH 45 M 2.7.88 Divorce 7.10.09 Kids D20,S17 & D15
You're getting so much terrific advice and support! Reading this thread has been extremely helpful to me, and I know that you must be feeling the good vibes coming your way.
It is so painful to be shot down twice, with this whole sad cycle of despair-hope-complacency-despair. My H and I are on our second separation. He has filed for D and that is where we are going, with me dragging my feet the whole way.
You don't have to have the same result. My DB'ing efforts were always undermined by my irritation (OK, fury) at being continually tricked and cheated on.
It's been interesting, though, and even educational, to observe the subtle back and forth pulling and pushing that's gone on all during our 10-month separation. When I didn't want him, he wanted me. And I was at my most insulting. When I wanted him, he didn't want me--and HE was at his most insulting. All of us mamas have seen the same strange phenomenon with two children and a toy. So it's good to know, for those of us who want to stay forever young, that we just might.
If you can truly let your husband figure out whatever in hell it is he needs to figure out--while leaving him room--while treating him kindly, but distantly--while taking your fabulous picnic out where he can glimpse it occasionally (thanks, Nomo, for that analogy!)...if you can manage all that, then I don't see why you can't have a good shot at succeeding.
I DO wish you luck, and I'm standing right behind you, girl. And I'll keep reading so I can learn, too.
Cadesmom is so right. It's time to be Cat and drop the rope with H. I too said:
"I have tried so hard to please him in every way" I haven't read your sitch in depth, but you are the responsible one in the R, right? If something needs to be done or fixed, he can count on you? Do you live a fair amount of your life doing things because they'll please H, or not doing things because they wont please him? If so, thing about this dynamic and please try to change it. If I'm off base, and that's not the case with you, ignore this and my projections here. I picked up responsibility for everything that H couldnt/wouldnt do. I wore myself into the ground trying to be loveable enough. It didn't work. No matter how perfect I thought I was, H was incapable of loving me as long as he felt a failure as a husband/father. His feelings of guilt and failure were his focus. Me? He could just take it for granted I'd take care of things, and he started to expect me to do that. I responded by doing and changing more. I lost myself. He looked at me and did not see a strong, happy woman. He saw a woman who believed she had to earn his love.. he started to believe that about me too.
"He was always too tired for me" - This sounds like depression and depression does not go away without treatment. People don't understand that the chemical changes involved change the way our brains work and the damage can be permanent. If you or your H thinks he's suffering with dep., it's very important that he see a Dr. It makes me SO sad at times to think of all the battles we've lost in our R just because depression was making it impossible for H to think clearly. There was no way he could have a R, communicate or find happiness without help.
"him and OW have been going at it like there is no tomorrow" - this really sounds like an addiction and that OW is his drug. Self medicating his ADHD and possible depression? It doesn't mean that she excites him more or has better chemistry. It just means that contact with her increases the "feel good" chemicals in his brain, just like a drug addict.
"I still treated him like a child" - Do everything you can to kill this dynamic in your R. If he thinks your mothering or treating him like a child, that's not good at all. I used to say "well, you need me to treat you like this because you're acting like such a child!" I was wrong. The first thing I had to do for H to be interested in me as his wife and lover was to not mother him. I still struggle with this and if I start taking care of him like a child, it immediately causes problems. Men don't want their wives to tell them what to do, control them, or mother them. Period. Even if they are way screwed up and irresponsible, they'll run from control/mothering.
"my search for affection was too much to deal with" - yup.. heard this too. This comes from him and his feelings... guilt, failure, lies, cheating. They don't want us to come too close when they're hiding or when they've cheated. Being close to us makes them feel bad and reminds them of what they've done. If they don't have to feel anything, it makes it easier to run from wwhat they're doing.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share what I've been through in case you can find something that will help in your sitch. Listen to CM and get back to the strong, wonderful woman that you are. Drop the rope and let him deal with the probs he's created. And, above all, encourage him to seek med help.
Shee-it, Cat. I don't have my own thread anymore, but I am here several times a week to read about those I care for.
It damn near took my breath away to read about your sitch. I so remember those moments when discovery was raw and my heart was racing, I couldn't breathe, there was a heavy fist squeezing my chest, and I wanted to dry heave all the time. OMGosh, friend, I am simultaneously brokenhearted and f*cking furious for you.
You have got some good folks on your thread, and AmyC and even Sheila came out of hiding to post really solid advice. You are in good hands here, but mostly you're in the best hands of your own growth this last year, and of the Lord.
I really have to agree with Amy's advice, and I see so much of what I personally need to hear from several people here. And of course, you wrote advice in the midst of your own thread that I sorely need to tattoo on my heart: be his friend and don't push for more before he's ready. I've been trying to go directly to Madly in Love, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. You know the drill. Thanks for the 2x4 you didn't even know you were wielding for me. You're good like that.
I will check in more sweet Cat. You have been such a friend to all of us here, and I want to sit on your curb and hold your hand for a bit.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
hijack away ACJ, i always get a kick of knowing others benefit from posters on my thread
======================== No matter how perfect I thought I was, H was incapable of loving me as long as he felt a failure as a husband/father... I responded by doing and changing more. I lost myself..He saw a woman who believed she had to earn his love.. ======================== OK sheila, that was just scary, you described my sitch to the dot, I tried soooo had to "earn" what should only be given freely and truly from the heart. He's always felt at odds with the kids, doesnt' help that they prefer me openly and strongly.
Lin, I have put my peace on the table, he knows its there, he knows I love him and that would be there for him, I was the one who found the ADHD councelor and made the C session for tomorrow, so that's my part, the rest I leave it to the Lord, and i swear to you, the moment I told God "here, take this burden from me, guide my H and give me peace" my uneasiness was gone, I don't feel sick nor aprehensive anymore, God is great, who else would give me such peace SO quick?
Thanks for your support Delia, you are a sweety (and on my prayers as right now =========================================== My DB'ing efforts were always undermined by my irritation (OK, fury) at being continually tricked and cheated on. ==================================================== I don't blame you hon. One thing I want to share that i learned is that my H told me how I reminded him and kept OW's memory fresh with my digging into the past /found something that *I* thought was ow related, that that didnt' help at ALL.
========================================= When I didn't want him, he wanted me. And I was at my most insulting. When I wanted him, he didn't want me-- ============================== THere have been many changes to my H's demeanor since the sh*t hit the fan. After talking to a good friend, who reinforced what i read here, i sent him a txt msg saying that I recogniced I was always trying to fix him, us, and that i should'nt have done that, that I was to stop forcing my decisions on him, and you know what? he actually told me that he was tired of being alone (all 2 days of sleeping elsewhere away from kids and me) that he screwed up, and today he asked if I could meet him to talk (we ended up talking on the phone). He did agree that coming back for that reason alone--sort of like when he first came back, wasn't a good reason, that we'd talk during C.
So we went from him not even being sure we could imagen getting back, to talking as if we were already on the way there. I am being very, but VERY cautious --painfully I envisioned my life as a single mother, and eventually I made my peace with it and decided that no matter what, God would lead me and keep me safe. And it set me free, again... I am not jumping for joy now, no, not until i see him well on his way to finding himself will I totally believe we have a chance.
I m still debating about the living arraignments, if we could afford it he'd be elsewhere now (he brought it up). After what I've learned I do not want him in my bed anytime soon, i dont' want him to touch me until true affection comes from a healed soul. No more waiting for crumbs to fall off the table. To be totally honest, i didnt' like myself that much, since he wasn't so attracted to me and our sex life was poor, I kept comparing myself to others, wishing I had more here less there. Heck, no more of that either, I am what I am, I'm no supermodel but I'm no quasimodo either, I look good and heck, I will feel good, this is my body and is whole and healthy and i'm thankful for it.
I told him he could decide whatever he wanted about the trips, that i wasn't going to fight it. He went from defending the reasons, that his overtime would pay for it (had a hard time having understand that overtime doesn't mean it is mad money) to actually telling he'll cancel the 4day trip to NJ (the one with his friends which I believed was a job trip) I'm pleasantly surprised, though i will believe it when I see it, he does that sometimes, change his mind. He didn't understand why was it so bad to go to the beach and NY right after this mess.
He is coming around on his own, I'm not going to beat sense into him, he will find it on his own, and last I heard from him he admited he's messed up, that's step 1.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
You sound awesome. I'm so glad that you are in a better place right now. I read, read, read my Bible during my D sitch. Pray for the strength you need and know it will come.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
My quaterly lesson is about marriages this month, and I just had to put these nuggets of wisdom here (and some from a book about the home from a very respected writer in my church) I'm actually going to give a copy of this pgs to my H, since he actually confessed to me he didn't know why he still had feelings for op:
"Pure and holy affection is not a feeling, but a principle, those who area actuated by true love are neither unreasonalbe nor blind...But the passion of the natural heart is another thing altogether...passion will be headstrong, rash, defiant of all restraint. "That love which has no better foundation than mere sensual gratification will be headstrong, blind, and uncontrollable. Honor, truth, and every noble, elevated power of the mind are brought under the slavery of passions. The person who is bound in the chains of this infatuation is too often deaf to the voice of reason and conscience; neither argument nor entreaty can lead him to see the folly of his course. "True love is not a strong, fiery, impetuous passion. On the contrary, it is calm and deep in its nature. It looks beyond mere externals, and is attracted by qualities alone. "
On Samson and Delilah: "the narrative creates an impression of almost incredible stupidity on the part of Samson. At any time he could have put an end to Delilah's questioning by leaving her and returning to his home. But Samson's chief fault was no so much stupidity as sensual infatuation. In the ruin and shame that this sensual weakness brought upon him, and the way in which, step by step, it lead him to forfeit God's miraculous gift of supernatural strenth, lies the chief moral of the story" "...At the very outset of life he was surrounded with favorable conditions for physical strenght, intellentual vigor and moral purity, but under the influence of wicked associates he let go that hold upon God which is man's only safequard, and he was swept away by the tide of evil. Those who in the way of dury are brought into trial may be sure that God will preserve them; but if men willfully place themselves under the power of temptation, they will fall, sooner or later"
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
