New and confused

[Puddle]

Thanks, Sue. I'm scared to death to go away---I feel dizzy just thinking about it. We've never been apart for that long since we've been married. It's more than a month away, though, and I'll have more information to work with by then.

I am so feeling the fact that I'm carrying the R right now. If I didn't say anything or make any plans to do things, we'd hardly be speaking and we certainly wouldn't be doing anything together. It's so hard to know whether I'm acting as if or pushing. He's cordial enough, but so quiet. I need to work hard on my PMA, very hard.

I read your situation, and I can't imagine going through this again! You must be very strong indeed. Having kids makes all of this so much more complex, and so much more important. I wish you well.

[Heimlich]

Puddle,

Have you checked out the "low sex marriage" area of these boards? You might be able to get more insight on the sex issue there. I hesitate to say anything one way or the other about pursuing your H sexually at this time.

I'd still go on your trip. Focus on having some fun for you. No one will say that it's easy, but you CAN do it. Also, don't beat yourself up when you do feel down. Those feelings are normal. I indulge myself in them now and again and then move on. As you move forward, your attitude will become increasingly positive.

You're going to have to carry the R for a while. If you're H is OK with doing things with you, keep it up.

It'll get better.

BD

[Puddle]

Thanks, Heimlich. I've read some on the other board, and I'll keep reading. I'm not going to initiate any sexual contact for the time being. It would shock the hell out of him, but not pleasantly, right now, is my sense.

I'm grateful that he's still here, still friendly, still willing to do things and even accept the perfunctorily good-night kiss sometimes. I realize I'm in a decent position right now, and I have the opportunity to make some good changes. (PMA, check.) It's hard to focus on the positive while realizing things may get much, much worse. I don't want any more blindsiding.

Thank you for the encouragement. I truly appreciate it.

[Puddle]

Oh ugh. Just had a "date" with DH (he agreed, but none too enthusiastically). Turned out because of his work we couldn't go anywhere, so we just had dinner alone together at home. It was a very, very long and quiet two hours: the only conversation was initiated by me (no R talk) and DH responded briefly.

After a long silence he said flippantly, "So how's this 'working on things' treating you?" (Last week when he expressed doubts about us I said there was nothing we couldn't work on.) I said, "I'm just working on me now, and it's treating me well." End of conversation.

I think he half expects me to bring up the R and half believes I think since we're spending time together that things are going fine. So again, I'm feeling like a dolt.

So one of our issues was not spending time together, but now that I'm doing that, it only seems to highlight the silence. One of his other complaints was that we don't talk about "anything important." Obviously the R is important, but neither one of us is bringing that up, so that leaves me either prattleing on (to myself, mostly) about lighthearted stuff or silence. That doesn't feel like the good stuff that spending time together is supposed to generate. If he doesn't want to hang out, I wish he'd just decline the invitations!

I'd love some advice. I'm at a loss here.

Thanks.

[Willing NJ H]

Puddle,

Sorry your here, but you've come to a great place. My R has always been very lacking in the sex dept. My W has issues with it that make her uncomfortable, and it has made us have sex less times in a year than most people have in a month. It made me upset, becuase I tried everything, and all attempts lead to a dead end. I tried supporting her with a counselor of her choice (her idea), letting her initiate, her telling me to start initiating again, talks, etc. Everything lead to rejection 95% of the time, and it lead to me being very upset. It seemed to compund the fact that she wouldn't communicate, and we are now separated.

One thing you need to do, is stop assuming. The damage to your R/M was caused by both of you. Continue identifying your errors, and change them (make the changes permanent). If he feels something is a problem, ask him how it could be better. Pretend you know nothing about him, and start learning. When he said "connection", you thought "sex". Did you ask him? Like it says in DB, ask him what he means by "connection". Don't accept an answer like "we get along better, we know each other, etc." Nicely ask him to specify what types of events/encounters would show him the connection that he is looking for. Is it when you rub your hand through his hair, touch his face, look into his eyes and tell him how important he is? It could be anything, and I think you'd be surprised that men need reassurance from their spouse just like women do (maybe in a slightly different way.) the best thing about this, is that you could both have your own definition of "connection", and your both correct. You need to do what feels right for the other person to feel loved, appreciated, connected, etc.

Sex is important, but as long as you make an effort to change (in time), he will follow. When that time comes, tell him your wants, likes, dislikes, etc. Guide him and tell him when you want to be in control and when you want him in control. It will help him get into things again, and help you be comfortable, because your calling the shots.

Acting as if is a huge part of DBing when your the spouse that was left behind. You are going to go through tremendous mood/emotional swings. One day you'll be ok and understand your working on you, the next you'll be emotional and wondering why your life is going down the drain. Acting as if and getting a life (GAL), will help you learn to adapt, make you more confident, and help H see that you are interesting and attractive. You changing will confuse him, and make him think twice about his decision that the M may be over. You pushing him and acting desperate in front of him, will push him farther away.

There are tons of methods for working on you and your M, and a lot of wonderful DBers who are willing to share and help. Read the boards, read DR and DB, and post on other peoples threads. The more people you talk to, the more people will talk to you. I personally like speaking with guys who are in my shoes, and women who are in my W's shoes. The guys can tell me what does/doesn't work for them, and the women can guide me to getting through my W's walls. But in all, everyone is helpful, and I enjoy hearing from everyone.

The best rule to follow right now, is follow the advice of the more experienced DBers. If you think you should say something to H, but they say it's a bad idea, listen to them. They can help you avoid the set-backs that they have experienced. Good luck, you can do this.

[Puddle]

Thanks, Will.

If I thought I was at a loss before, I'm learning a new definition now. I'm going to vent now, so please bear with me.

DH was finally ready to talk, told me he's lacking something with me that he believes is either there or it's not---no work to do. He said he loves me dearly, is grateful to me, needs my help figuring out what to do. I asked specifically what he'd like me to do, and he said he honestly hadn't thought about it, had expected me to ask him to leave the house or sleep in the kids' room, tell me I never want to see his face again, or something. I said I wouldn't do those things, that I'm glad he's here.

He said he feels strong friendship for me, and that this new development shouldn't affect that. Whether I should have or not, I told him that for me, our friendship was based on trust, and that's been shaken. (What I was thinking was I've lost a huge amount of respect for you, you *#&(*#$#%@, and I'll never trust you again.) He said he's happy to stay in the house and be friends and coparents, but he needs to know that I'll let him out of the obligation to be my husband. I reflected back what he said and said, "I know I'll be fine whatever happens, and you're going to do what you need to to be happy, but it's not what I want." He wants to stop feeling "awkward" (read: guilty), and he's glad to know that I'm okay. He said he's noticed the changes I've been making and he's happy to see that I'm the strong woman he married.

He asked if I can see a time in the future when I'll be able to look back on this and say it's what I needed (he wants me to be happy, can't give me what I need, hopes someone else can). Maybe another no-no, but I said I may very well be happy someday, stronger, etc etc, but that I'll never thank him for it. He stood there offering to hug me but I couldn't.

I didn't cry and I stayed calm, but I'm utterly losing it. I'm hardly keeping it together. I feel like being strong is just letting him off the hook. I know the alternative isn't good, either, but this is just not okay. He gets to stay in the house, keep the option of meeting someone else open, know that I'm fine, and keep this friendship he values so highly? Where, pray tell, is the justice in that? I know there isn't any, but man alive. I just feel like he's throwing me in front of the train to save himself.

The worst part is, right now I feel like if he changed his mind I'd tell him to #$*& off. I wish I could trade places with him for five minutes. If he was able to keep this up after that, I'd be done.

I know lots of you have been through this and worse, but our calmness about the whole thing makes it feel so very final. As he was talking I was thinking, oh my god, this is really happening.

I don't know what to do with this anger, which is only protecting me from the hurt. This just has to get better. Oh help.

[Puddle]

Oh, and he said he needs to know that I'm not harboring any secret hopes that this can change. He said, "Of course you could always lie," and I said, "Yes, I could."

The last thing I said was that I believe happiness is a decision and I'm going to choose to be happy, that I won't be bitter, but that as big a heart as I have, I'm not sure I'll ever forgive him.

And despite all that, I am, indeed, feeling bitter and hurt. I know I'll feel better, but holy cow, it's hard to believe this can get any worse. And he's not even seeing anyone. Yet.

[Heimlich]

Puddle,

I'm a little tired, so can't think of any advice to offer you. However, I can sympathize with you. My W keeps saying she doesn't feel that "spark" for me. It's either there or not, so the M is over. I KNOW in my heart that we could rebuild that love. Like you and your H, we still remain friends. However, that whole circular logic of I don't feel it so I can't feel it so I won't try to see if I can feel it again so I don't feel it is MADDENING! You're not alone.

Regarding staying at home, you feeling like he's taking advantage of you. Don't do anything rash, think things through.

You WILL be OK.

I hope to be able to offer you something more constuctive later. Until then, hang in there.

BD

[Willing NJ H]

Puddle, Sorry your feeling so bad, I know that pain very well. I don't know if it's right, but I had my own way of handeling htat type of sitch. I told my W that i'd love to be friends if we don't make it, but that I know I couldn't and would probably harbor ill feelings toward her if we ended like this. I said if we end like this, when I never knew there were things that bothered her and that she just decided to tell me its over, I couldn't promise that i'd be ok with her. I said the only way that I could do that, is to know that the two of us kept outsiders out of our life, and we exhausted every option to ensure that ending our M was the only answer (especially since our D is involved.) I told her that if we exhausted all resources (both having open minds that it could go either way), and we ended up divorcing, I would be ok with that.

[Puddle]

Heimlich, thank you for your words of encouragement. It's nice to hear someone besides me tell me that I will be okay.

Will, I've been thinking a lot about what (if anything) to ask DH for right now. I just had a jarring talk with a friend who suggested I ask him to agree to hold off seeing anyone for one year to "give me a chance for this to sink in." I think if I asked him for a year to see if his feelings change---which is what I really mean---he wouldn't agree to that, and, in fact, I know that he doesn't want to miss an opportunity to "connect" with someone if he finds that person. I haven't asked for anything yet, I've been leaving it all up to him, but this talk freaked me out a little.

We're in a friendly spot right now: DH is feeling relieved since he's come clean and I've got ahold of myself. I'm not ready to ask for anything, haven't thought about it enough. What have others done?

The other thing my friend mentioned was making sure that the kids and I are provided for financially. I don't think DH has thought that far ahead (I know I haven't!), says he'd be sure we were fine, but I don't think he's considered the possibility that he may be responsible for two households (his and ours), and if he meets someone else and wants to begin a family, his promise to take care of us might not seem so attractive (especially to another partner).

God knows I don't have much trust in what he says right now, and the idea that we could end up in some kind of financial battle sickens me. What have others (especially non-bread winners) done about this?