Walking in a minefield

[Heimlich]

I know I've made quite a show of convincing everyone (including myself) that I'm done with her.

Well? Are you?

If not, and it might not be proper DBing, but it sounds like she sniffed around like she wanted to come home but you slapped her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. I'm guessing she doesn't know what the hell she wants at the moment.

You're W needs to make some changes. But there's a lot of he said/she said with W, MIL, SFIL, and you. If you're not done, and I can't tell if you are or aren't, honestly, reaching out a hand to her right now might be worth it. You'll be nowhere close to being fixed, but maybe if you two have an honest discussion with each other, you may start the process.

Of course, if you're doing that, you're accepting the risk that she is just manipulating you because she's going to have to start paying 'rent' or whatever (nice folks, your in-laws) or is just confused.

No clue what the right answer is, but hope that helps, at least a little.

BD

[walkingcliche]

Well? Are you?

I'm here, aren't I?

If not, and it might not be proper DBing, but it sounds like she sniffed around like she wanted to come home but you slapped her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. I'm guessing she doesn't know what the hell she wants at the moment.

Perhaps I did, but I really tried not to. I know she doesn't know what she wants, but the highly defensive presentation she made really sounded like she expects to live here, continue not giving a crap about anyone, treating me and my son like dirt, continuing her affair(s), and spending like a poet on payday. How could I possibly resist such a wonderful offer? Anyway, I did not say no, I just said I would think about it.

You're W needs to make some changes. But there's a lot of he said/she said with W, MIL, SFIL, and you. If you're not done, and I can't tell if you are or aren't, honestly, reaching out a hand to her right now might be worth it. You'll be nowhere close to being fixed, but maybe if you two have an honest discussion with each other, you may start the process.

Honest discussions are what brought me here. When she was pregnant with S, we were car pooling together every morning. Indisputably, I was very concerned that we were not close enough, that she would not open up to me, and that this would cause us problems after our child was born. I was concerned about money, extramarital affairs, teamwork in child rearing. And, of course, I was right (not that anyone really cares). What I didn't know, and really couldn't know, was that she hated me every moment, went to work, took a luch break, and cried for an hour. Never once told me her side. Maybe I never let her, I don't know, but honest discussions have a very poor track record for us, IMO.

Of course, if you're doing that, you're accepting the risk that she is just manipulating you because she's going to have to start paying 'rent' or whatever (nice folks, your in-laws) or is just confused.

No clue what the right answer is, but hope that helps, at least a little.

BD

A little, yes. Thank you.

I've just hatched a couple of plans, mostly from desperation. Plan 1: Claim that "something came up" for Friday, and aske her to bring S over on Saturday. This would screw up her Friday departure, but would not keep her from going (I honestly beleive she is pathetic enough to spend as little as 10 hours in OM's city, just to make sure I would find out and be hurt by it, even though I think I've been kind of convinving in the "I don't care" department).
Plan 2: Casually offer that she can come back during whatever contact we have tomorrow. No strings, no discussion, just the welcome mat. Unfortunately, this causes some really problems for me: Weekend before last, she decided she would rather be with OM than my son and I. She has been gone for several months, and we weren't getting along for a very long time before that. Also, she is just plain out of her tiny little mind.

Back to the drawing board, I guess.

[walkingcliche]

Interesting tidbit, found in the appendix of How Can I Forgive You by Dr. Janis Abrahms Spring. The appendix covers the five core emotional needs, and the kinds of dysfunctional actions and attitudes that can be expected from individuals that were denied those needs during their formative years.
(Note: Dr. Spring uses the convention of naming the interpersonal offender "He", which bugs the crap out of me in my sitch, so I have changed it to "She" in this exerpt. WC)

Core Emotional Need #3: The Freedom To Express Valid Needs and Emotions

We tend to flourish in an environment in which we're free to express our legitimate needs and emotions. The offender who was reared by authoritarian or needy parents may learn at an early age to stifle self-expression and be overly responsible.
People who surrender to or avoid these familiar patterns are unlikely to do anything that requires your forgiveness - in fact, their modus operandi is to behave in ways that increase the chances that you'll appreciate them or at least get along with them. Never knowing what they really think or feel - they themselves may not know either - you are more likely to find them annoying or boring than troublesome. You may detect a basic inauthenticity in your relationship and may find it hard either to like or dislike them. You may not realize that although they project an air of selflessness and sacrifice, deep inside they resent you for making them feel as marginalized, as subjugated, as they experienced themselves as children - a response you never intended.
The third way in which an offender may cope with childhood patterns is to overcompensate. If she was muffled as a child - coerced into being someone other than herself, someone her parents needed her to be - she may as an adult fight back in maladaptive ways, with you as the victim. To extricate herself from the role of the good, compliant child, she may do something totally out of character, totally selfish and reckless, such as having an affair or trashing you.

By far the best possible 3 paragraph summary of W's role in our relationship to date. Now, I just wish she had given some idea of how to help a person with this kind of dysfunctional attitude. I've got this great kid, you know, and he loves his mother very much. I know I should just cut her out of my life as much as possible, for my own sake, but how do I do that to him?

[walkingcliche]

Not sure what just happened: Either I just made a lot of progress, or sank the ship completely.

Went to the store to pick up some stuff for S (picking him up after work tomorrow for what will be a great, if excessively hot, weekend). Had Prince on the stereo on the way, was snapping my fingers and doing little dance steps while I strolled the aisles, trying not to be too obvious about checking out the girl in her workout shorts. Anywho, got the goodnight call, talked to S (sounds excited about the weekend, not as much as me, though), talked to W as well. Turns out SIL lost the baby. That sucks. Period. Offered my condolences, we talked a bit about it, came to the conclusion that there just isn't anything that I can do for SIL, though I really wish I could. Moved on to other matters, I apologized for "spacing" and forgetting to bring the bills with me yesterday (they were actually in the truck, but I wasn't sure what I was heading into so I left them there). Asked if she wanted me to take care of them or drop them off with MIL, whatever. She said to drop them off, I asked if she would have time to look at them over the weekend (read: are you going to see OM, but I think I was kind of sly about it), she said she would. Casually mentioned that they were mostly overdue notices, she set off on her new "plan", which sounds suspiciously like the strategy I have been proposing for years now. Asked if she was making any progress on securing a loan, she responded with a flat "no". My guess is that S-MIL finally told her that she works at a bank, but doesn't own one, and even if she did wouldn't be interested in loaning W 70k+ after the way she has been acting. Just a guess, though. Anyway, i offered to help in any way that I could. Not sure if that was a good move or bad, but I think it's really just me being me.
Couldn't resist, so I brought up the coming home issue. Totally cool, just said that I was worried we may be stuck in another one of our famous misunderstandings, and I wasn't sure if she was waiting for a response from me, or if I was waiting for additional details from her, or if it was a dead issue, or what. She, rather meekly, said she thought she was waiting for an answer from me. I apologized (well), told her I thought I was waiting for her. Totally my fault, so sorry, etc...
I then told her that I didn't want to foist anything off on her or burden her with anything, but I really don't want to pressure her or anythng, so when she feels that she wants to discuss the issue to just let me know. Also had to throw in a line about me "alawys being here". Corny, I know.
She brought up S's schedule for the weekend, She seemed real concerned that he might be some sort of burden to me. Great opportunity to reassure her that "I've got my life, my interests and stuff, but all that pales when it comes to my boy. He's never a burden to me, so just don't ever worry about that". Best part is, it's true.

Wrapped up the call, finished shopping, got back to Prince and danced in the driver's seat all the way home.

'Night.

[Atlas]

wc,

i've been reading up on you lately, and i have noticed a lot of change in you. your attitude seems to be upbeat, there for your business partner and dancing your way through the grocery store. keep that up, she must be noticing.

good luck.

[walkingcliche]

Thanks, I'll probably need it.

I doubt she is noticing much right now, probably pretty dark in the hole she has dug, but I'll keep at it. I'm starting to think that it's not really for her, anyway.

[walkingcliche]

I've got S, were just taking it easy. Playing, having fun, watching cartoons. I need the rest.

W went to see Bourne last night, most likely by herself. She is in town, I heard her mom talking to her when she called this morning. W now has a sinus infection, does not sound very good. I kept my cool, but I mentioned that her creditors started calling at 8am, and had called 8 times by 10:30, and that I would greatly appreciate it if she would let them know that she is no longer reachable here. She responded by saying that she needs to know, as I had apologized for bringing it up. She then said she was going to call CCCS, an option we had been discussing pre-bomb. I pointed out that my name was still on some of her accounts, and that I was unsure that I wanted to enter into such a program with her. She did not seem upset, and said that she would have me removed from those accounts. I thanked her, and reminded her that, although she had added me to them, I had never actually made any use of those accounts. I then wished her a speedy recovery, and when she said that she may call back later to "check" on S, I told her she was welcome to anytime.

I have no illusions about her grasp on reality, but I think some uncomfortable truths are becoming harder and herder for her to deny. Cross your fingers.

[BeingMe]

I think I'll hold my thumbs instead! Hope your W's present demeanour is evidence of a possible move toward a recovery of your M, if that is what you want. There are a lot of small positives that would indicate a movement in the right direction, anyway.

[walkingcliche]

Big hugs, BeingMe. Not sure I understand the thumb thing, though.

Anyway: Sumpin's up. What it is is anyone's guess, but I'm pretty sure there has been yet another shift on W's part.

I took S to an attraction next state over today, bout a 4 hour round trip. He did really great, talking and playing and joking the whole way there and back, no complaining or anything. Had a great time at the attraction, too. I'm really proud of him, but there isn't anything new about that. W apparently went to her dad's today, but I'm not sure of the signifigance of that. Much earlier on in this whole mess, she was pretty close to throwing in the towel and trying to work things out (IMO), spent the day at her dad's getting filled up with this "it's so much better the second time around" crap, and closed up on me again. However, I've heard rumblings that, since the truth of what W has been up to has started to come out, her dad and step-mom may not be quite the divorce cheerleaders they once were. Anyway, when I took S over to MIL's house, MIL took him inside, leaving W and I outside. Together. With no one else around.

Nothing happened. We just talked about S's weekend, stuff like that. She was throwing off some weird vibes, like maybe she wanted to hug me or something, but I just don't have a clue what is going on in her head right now. Goodnight call was equally wierd, definitely got the sense that she wanted to say something but couldn't/wouldn't.

This is really hard for me, as I have always been the "mover" in our R. I fear that if I don't do something, nothing will ever get done, but I can't shake the feeling that she has to be the one to make a move this time around, or she will just end up blaming me again for anything that goes wrong.

Let's face it, though: She's probably going to blame me even if a meteor hits her car. Cynicism, anyone?

[walkingcliche]

P.S. In an earlier post, I mentioned that I thought one of the waitresses (is that word still okay to use?) at S's favorite restaurant may have been coming on to me. Well, we had dinner there again tonight, and there is really no question about it.

Showed me a picture of her daughter, made a point to tell me that she is not with her D's father, made a comment about cooking my S dinner sometime, etc...

She was very sweet about it, and I am kind of attracted to her, but... I dunno. Gonna have to think on that for a while, I guess.