MC, I hope you don't see this as a Hijack since we started with your pondering how to be more attractive to your W!? If so, I can move it over to my thread.
Originally Posted By: Theoden
This is what Frank did. He looked at the situation and said, "We can't afford separate households right now. So let me help you get your business off the ground so you can move towards contributing 50% of household expenses. Then you'll be in a place where you can move out. This way we'll both avoid living in nasty cramped housing. If you really want your space, move into the spare bedroom and put a lock on your bedroom door." Or something like that. Then Frank proceeded to GAL in a serious way. This gave his wife a taste of his unavailabilty and his seriousness in moving on. He started doing fun things with the kids without his wife.
Yes, but every sitch is different. I am a long way down this path (W in separate bedroom, me doing fun stuff with the kids like taking them all over TX for the past 2 wks. only with W for 2 days, starting the long term planning for separate paths in life...) However, up to now, there has been little change in my W, as witnessed by the fact that she chose to spend most of this 2 wks in the same town as OM instead of going on vacation with her kids/me. At some point, we have to question what is in the kids best interest. Is it really to be 50% time with a person who has decided to make REALLY bad choices and who does not appear to be very stable (can't take any purposeful direction at all in their life)? I am not a lawyer, but I know that in some states (e.g. Louisiana) which still have Fault procedures in their divorce law, this is not only possible, but has happened - as it did in La. to a friend of our family, he kicked her out of the house and kept the kids and the family assets.
Me 41 W 41 Kids: S9 S7 Married 16 years Bomb dropped 2/2/07 Still living together! current thread
I know how painful this feels to think that your wife should get 50% of the kid's time, given her selfish choices. We all share those feelings sometimes. It's really not best for your kids to have them mom or you completely ripped out of their life.
Look -- sometimes I wonder about this, too. I picture my wife hooking up with a long string of boyfriends, exposing my kids to who knows what kind of craziness.
Realistically, even with a good lawyer, even in states that require cause and fault for a divorce, you might end up being a weekend dad, supporting her, the kids and, possibly, her new deadbeat boyfriend who will become the stepfather of your children.
I know this isn't what you want to hear. Be careful. Some lawyers will sell you a bill of goods just to build up a costly court case -- knowing full well you will probably get shared custody.
Yes, you want all the money and full custodyof the kids, but chances are, you won't get everything you want in a divorce. Probably not in FL. Don't know about TX law.
Moving forward with a divorce and separate paths is stong statement enough.
It was a combination of my H's OW getting way to manipulative and the fact that I made it CRYSTAL CLEAR to my H that we would be friendly but NO LONGER best friends if we were to D. I was looking for house and getting pre-approved for mortgages -even had the kids prepped for this direction (they are 13 and 10, not so happy with moving to a new house but they new I had been trying everything for 10 mos. at this point). I was truly moving on and my H realized it once the kids and I were gone to Hilton Head without him for a week - the first trip EVER without him. Not sure what finally turned the light on for him - he says it was a combination of it all.
Up to this point I had been killing him with kindness - once I started really acting like we were D then things got 'more real' to him I guess.
H ended it with OW the day after we got back from HH - we are now piecing and doing very well - but it took a year to get this far...and it ain't over yet by any means. Day by Day....Baby Steps!
HB
Me41 H44 * M16 yrs * D13 S10 8/06 H wants a D * 1/07 OW Truth 2/07 Searated * 7/07 H moved home First Thread Surviving Separation Now Piecing
Anyway. I called CW today to see if it was okay to take S6 to see Underdog this afternoon. (It is her day, but he was with my mom and sister etc at the Zoo so I was picking him up.) She was fine with it etc.
While talking to her, she brought up coming over to the house to clean for me. She had brought this up earlier in the week, but never mentioned it again. She came over and was cleaning some stuff. I was working in the yard when she got there. I asked if she had eaten, because S-15 was making corndogs for him and S6. She told me she had a salad and a couple beers for supper. Later, when I came through the house to get something, she asked me if she should give me a list of the information she needed for her attorney's information sheet.
How can she be so f'd up in the head? If I was dead set on D, I couldn't behave how she is. (yes Frank I realize that she is nuts). I would find it repulsive to go to her house and do things for her.
Smiling and waving
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
I am incredibly lonely without my boys here. I still miss CW, but without the boys here, it is too quiet and I am lonely. I stew about the fact that I am alone and that this could be the norm. I have travelled for work over the years, being gone for up to 2 weeks. I never missed them because I always knew it was temporary.
CW brought up the D again yesterday, asking if she should give me a list of information that she needs.
What is crazy about the whole thing, CW came over to my place again today and finished cleaning. If she is so dead set on a D, why doesn't she just leave me alone.......I don't have the strength to resist her some days.....
I am feeling sorry for myself and don't know what to do. I am going out with some friends later, but I have such a whole in my heart that it is just a temporary fix. The friends I will be with are so supportive to me. I don't know what I would do without them and all of you.
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
first, you need to stop her from 'helping' you by cleaning or whatever. She needs to 'feel' your rejection of her. With my W it was important (as per my counselor) to make her aware of the concept of:
"We will NOT be friends. We will be FRIENDLY, but not FRIENDS".
Why say that? Well, in a separation you can be 'friends' because the marriage isn't ended. And like COG, yourself and others, it's the best way to do what you can to prevent the marriage from ending. You have been doing just that and I admire your strength.
In a DIVORCE the whole dynamic changes. It's unrealistic for the WAS to believe that you'll 'just be friends' after a divorce because of the following reasons:
1) They have violated your trust. Does a friend do that?
2) How would a person you start a new relationship with feel if you were 'great friends' with your EX? Is that fair to them? After a divorce you WILL be moving on with your life. Your WAS needs to understand that. Right now they are in the fantasy world where they can have their cake and eat it too. My W once said to me
"We fulfilled our purpose together and now it's time to move on. We'll always have a loving connection and be great friends!"
Uh, no. We made a commitment and you are bailing out. After we reconnected she told me that the most important lesson for her was to learn that she could NOT jut 'bail out' when things got difficult. But it was how she dealt with her life when she was younger and I had kept it 'together' for all these years until I couldn't, so when she felt unsafe she did what was familiar to her. She bailed out and found someone else who she thought would save her.
3) If you have kids, how does that make the kids feel? They will ALWAYS want you to get back together. If you are 'good friends' they will be very confused. Again, this is what you tell the WAS will be the case, and is the reason you will be FRIENDLY but not friends.
4) For yourself, how does being 'friends' with a DIVORCED WAS who has committed adultery affect your feelings about your OWN integrity? If you are willing to be a 'friend' to someone who has violated your own ethics and divorced you, will you be able to live with that?
Remember, I'm not talking about what you say or do while you are still in 'fix it' mode. I'm talking about how you present the REALITY of a divorce to the WAS.
You have got to let them 'feel' what the divorce will 'feel like' NOW. They are still in the fantasy world where everything will be 'peachy neato keen' and we'll all be 'such good friends'.
Don't be mean. Be honest and 'real'. You're the only one who IS 'real'.
You may be surprised at their response. Stay the course and do not let anything they say knock you off the course. They will try ANYTHING to get you to sustain their fantasy world of 'everyone will be so happy after this is over'. Well, everyone won't. and it sucks.
But more important, you aren't doing this to 'make them come back because if they don't their life will suck.' That is a misconception. What you ARE doing is breaking the bubble of their fantasy life. There WILL be pain. There WILL be difficulties. They WILL lose you as the 'safety net'.
Then, they have to decide if their 'fantasy life' is worth losing their 'real' life.
Some will choose the fantasy life. Some will wake up and see what they are giving up.
Thanks for weighing in. What do you mean when you say "Remember, I'm not talking about what you say or do while you are still in 'fix it' mode. I'm talking about how you present the REALITY of a divorce to the WAS."?
Do you mean that I am in "fix it" mode now? I feel more like I am in unfixable mode. I really really really want to invite her to go out this weekend. I am trying not to do that. To that end, I have made myself busy tonight and tomorrow night.
Am I correct in that I should end all non-essential talk with her? I am too confused. I am too weak. There are times when I am feeling down that I just need to hear her voice. I am pitiful. God this is hard. Why am I going through this.............
Me: 44 S: 17 and 7 Final-6-13-08 I once went to a psychic who told me I would soon feel cheated......
first, you need to stop her from 'helping' you by cleaning or whatever. She needs to 'feel' your rejection of her. With my W it was important (as per my counselor) to make her aware of the concept of:
"We will NOT be friends. We will be FRIENDLY, but not FRIENDS".
Why say that? Well, in a separation you can be 'friends' because the marriage isn't ended. And like COG, yourself and others, it's the best way to do what you can to prevent the marriage from ending. You have been doing just that and I admire your strength.
In a DIVORCE the whole dynamic changes. It's unrealistic for the WAS to believe that you'll 'just be friends' after a divorce because of the following reasons:
1) They have violated your trust. Does a friend do that?
2) How would a person you start a new relationship with feel if you were 'great friends' with your EX? Is that fair to them? After a divorce you WILL be moving on with your life. Your WAS needs to understand that. Right now they are in the fantasy world where they can have their cake and eat it too. My W once said to me
"We fulfilled our purpose together and now it's time to move on. We'll always have a loving connection and be great friends!"
Uh, no. We made a commitment and you are bailing out. After we reconnected she told me that the most important lesson for her was to learn that she could NOT jut 'bail out' when things got difficult. But it was how she dealt with her life when she was younger and I had kept it 'together' for all these years until I couldn't, so when she felt unsafe she did what was familiar to her. She bailed out and found someone else who she thought would save her.
3) If you have kids, how does that make the kids feel? They will ALWAYS want you to get back together. If you are 'good friends' they will be very confused. Again, this is what you tell the WAS will be the case, and is the reason you will be FRIENDLY but not friends.
4) For yourself, how does being 'friends' with a DIVORCED WAS who has committed adultery affect your feelings about your OWN integrity? If you are willing to be a 'friend' to someone who has violated your own ethics and divorced you, will you be able to live with that?
Remember, I'm not talking about what you say or do while you are still in 'fix it' mode. I'm talking about how you present the REALITY of a divorce to the WAS.
You have got to let them 'feel' what the divorce will 'feel like' NOW. They are still in the fantasy world where everything will be 'peachy neato keen' and we'll all be 'such good friends'.
Don't be mean. Be honest and 'real'. You're the only one who IS 'real'.
You may be surprised at their response. Stay the course and do not let anything they say knock you off the course. They will try ANYTHING to get you to sustain their fantasy world of 'everyone will be so happy after this is over'. Well, everyone won't. and it sucks.
But more important, you aren't doing this to 'make them come back because if they don't their life will suck.' That is a misconception. What you ARE doing is breaking the bubble of their fantasy life. There WILL be pain. There WILL be difficulties. They WILL lose you as the 'safety net'.
Then, they have to decide if their 'fantasy life' is worth losing their 'real' life.
Some will choose the fantasy life. Some will wake up and see what they are giving up.
This is basically the approach I have taken with my STBXW.
Has it effected her path? Not to my knowledge.
What it has done has put me back in the driver seat of my life and destiny. I can only control me, so that is what I'm doing. My course is set.
As frank_d mentioned, you might be surprised at their response, for better or worse. In my situation, it's been bizarre. STBXW has unleashed so much venom my direction it's unbelievable, unlike anything I would have ever thought possible from her. Being Silent and The Rock has never been more difficult. Expressing my emotions without defending them? Tough, tougher than I thought.
Yet the feeling of purpose, direction and intent is incredible. I have stepped off the roller coaster.
I went through, and at times still do go through the emotions of just wanting to be able to hold her or just hang out with her. Yet like anything, this is just a process of grieving loss. That is gone. You'll get through it. Stay strong, stay the course. As she is now, you don't want her. You are grieving/missing the image you have created of her.
Do what I did, step back, critically think your way through this.
You might find the will to take her off the pedestal, smash that thing to bits and see how well she walks on feet of clay.
I did, it's tough, it's liberating, it's a process with an unknown expiration date, but people do move on and do so in a healthy manner.
Thanks for weighing in. What do you mean when you say "Remember, I'm not talking about what you say or do while you are still in 'fix it' mode. I'm talking about how you present the REALITY of a divorce to the WAS."?
Fix It mode is where we are up to the point that the WAS starts pushing the divorce. Then it's eventually time to give them a dose of reality.
You're ending 'fix it' mode now and it's time to do like Tyler has said. Stand like a rock.
