I think fusion can look exactly like interdependence or "connection" except fusion includes a strong dependence for other-validation that damages the relationship. Supposedly interdependence is absent this negative while still preserving the positive aspect of "connection" because of more reliance on self-validation. This not not mean that the level of "connection" needs to be any less. Good in theory, hard in practice.
I suppose as intimacy increases the tendency for fusion increases. The trick is to stay as unfused as possible through self validation, boundaries, and awareness.
For me fusion is wanting to live the other's emotions or wanting them to live yours. Connection is empathising with the other's emotions while not actually living them.
H wants me to live his emotions and gets bummed when I don't - he accuses me of having no empathy. If I am not sad when he's sad then I am unfeeling and callous and all my expressions of care and sympathy are fake, the same goes for happy too although he is happy less than he is sad. If he is really up about something it is not good enough that I am pleased for him, I have to be just as upbeat as he is otherwise I get accused of raining on his parade. He wants us to feel the exact same emotions about everything. When this doesn't happen he makes moves to make it happen. When H ain't happy ain't nobody happy.
To me this is fusion. I think this is why any attempt on my part to cheer him up gets so quickly shot down in flames. It is because as far as he is concerned not only am I showing an utter disregard for his feelings but I am being dangerously unfused by having enough cheerfulness in me to even try.
I guess I am somewhat fused too, because I do feel miserable when he is miserable. My reaction to feeling miserable is to try and jolly myself out of it again.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
How can you unknot the idea "I only want to have sex with my husband because he is the father of my children" without breaking marriage vows or having a divorce?
I think this statement is extremely misleading. It infers that women arent attracted to OM, it denies the reality of a 25% or greater cuckold rate, and is directly counter to biology's immutable directive to diversify the species, which is just as strong in women as it is in men. Its just practically spread out to be one every 4 years instead of 4 a year/month/week/ whatever.
As far as breaking marriage vows or divorce, those are just words and POP not worth the ink used to write them with. I have a stock certificate from ENRON. It has the same value as my marriage license. The value is based on perception and subject to fluctuation.. I think we know they are really secondary concerns once you have lost or calculatingly wrecked the emotional aspect of the R.
I realized that I wanted to "borrow" some of his "semi-fame" in an artistic field and his extensive social network by being in a relationship with him. That's why I perceived him as being "cool." So, clearly I need to work more on my own creative expression and building a better social network. Really, any other thought about what you might "need" from a particular relationship for your own emotional well-being can be worked through in this manner.
This is VERY smart!
I knew this one guy who was very attractive, talented, confident, physically gorgeous, etc. (He was a gymnast and blew my mind one day by doing a handstand from a seated position.) I was so smitten with him (do people still say that?), and one day I had this brilliant insight: it wasn't that I wanted to be WITH him; I wanted to BE him.
By being with him, I somehow felt that I absorbed and then transmitted his looks, his physical grace, his confidence, etc. Very helpful insight.
Didn't I post this very recently in response to that question?
__________________
This is a list of the qualities of poorly differentiated and well differentiated people that a counselor gave me and my bf a couple of years ago. She was a therapist who followed the Schnarch philosophy. I suspect you’ll see yourself, your partner, former partners, or your parents here… maybe ALL of them.
Poorly differentiated people:
Pressure others (important others) to accommodate them regardless of that it costs. “If you love me, you will_______! I can’t survive if you don’t do what I want you to. I can’t survive if I do what YOU want.”
Give in (sell out) because of fear of rejection.
Have to leave relationships emotionally or physically in order to resist the pressure to conform (give up themselves).
Accuse others of trying to control them when others resist being controlled.
Monitor how much they disclose about themselves so as to please others or avoid conflict.
Have families where it’s true that “When Dad/Mom is unhappy, ain’t NOBODY happy!”
Have chronic anxiety that is easily stirred up and difficult to calm down.
Take things personally, are on the defensive much of the time. Are easily “hurt” by others, feel “guilty” for having their own needs, feelings, interests, or opinions that are not shared by their important other(S).
Feel responsible for others’ lives and happiness, and for solving their problems.
Feel rejected when important others disagree with them.
Need to control someone else’s behavior or feelings in order for them to manage themselves. In other words, they need someone to do X before they can do/feel Y.
Rely on external activities or substances that are often labeled “addictive” in order to manage their feelings.
The interesting thing about the qualities of good differentiation below is that you may very well react with surprise that it’s not only OKAY to be some of these ways, but it’s actually pretty healthy, for example not solving other people’s problems, or stay calm when a loved one is “losing it.”
Well differentiated people:
Value their self-respect above all else. This is another way of saying they have integrity or that they live by their values.
Manage their own feelings, calm themselves, and then choose how they respond to others rather than reacting out of anxiety.
Confront themselves instead of blaming others for their own circumstances or consequences of their own choices.
Recognize that "it's not about me" when someone near and dear "loses it" or becomes anxious. They don't personalize others' behavior.
Validate themselves rather than rely on others to do it for them all the time.
Refuse to sell themselves out of betray their values in order to maintain a relationship.
Refuse to project their own conflicts onto their partners, and refuse to allow others to project theirs onto them. They fight their own battles within themselves where the fight belongs.
Know the difference between themselves and others: what is me and what is not me.
Take responsibility for themselves. They do not take responsibility for others’ choices or consequences.
Have their feelings rather than their feelings having them.
Have deeply connected relationships, since they can tolerate closeness without undue anxiety about fusing or distancing.
Support the emotional growth of others toward greater differentiation by their refusal to participate in fused behaviors.
Didn't I post this very recently in response to that question?
Yes you did post this before and I think you could probably post it every two weeks just to remind people about the terms.
I was in the airport and didn't have much time to write a more indepth question at the time. I guess part of my question was to try to get people to define what they actually mean by fusion versus connection. People seem to tell me that I am either not being honest OR just don't realize it when I say that I don't believe I have fused myself in relationships and that I think that has been a positive for me AND the relationships. Reading the list Lillie gave I think "validates" my belief that I am a well-differentiated person. I am able to have very deeply connected relationships because of the fact that I don't fuse or distance.
I've also written this before but I will write again to clarify. If I have a day where I don't feel my best and Raven tells me I am beautiful, I don't automatically feel beautiful. I appreciate him and I am smart enough not to argue with him but his words don't "make" me feel beautiful. AND if I have a day where I feel great about myself and he doesn't compliment me, I STILL feel great. Same thing with work. I don't think I did a great job on my last project BUT the client and my boss did and I received a 20% salary increase. I still know that I did NOT do a great job. And at a past job, my boss criticized me and did not comment on my good performance. I still KNEW that I had done a good job. The balancing thing with work is that I am smart enough to always listen to critiques and I even ask for them if I don't get them. Then I have to weigh those critiques and consider if they are accurate. I believe I always have to look at improving.
Now I think my XH did have a tendency toward fusing but the way he handled it when he felt too fused to me was to distance himself which really is just the flip side of fusing, right? He didn't really figure out what the issue was for him.
Ironically I was probably a very good partner to him because of my ability for intimacy without fusion. I was able to be close and empathize with him and be supportive while at the same time I didn't baby him or just give in to him all the time either.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Fusion is a very unattractive behavior, in both men and women.
I also think that when we say 'validate' ourselves, it's more along the lines of Hairdog's self-validation: "No matter what happens, I know I can handle it." I like it when my bf tells me I'm pretty or that he loves me... it is part of the process of creating emotional connection and vulnerability. Men like to hear it too... they often describe it as 'admiration.' I don't put his opinions above my own, however. To do so would create a power play, and fusion.
For me to 'fish for a compliment' from him would be my own attempt to 'fuse' with him. Anything he might deliver after my 'fishing' will not feel genuine, to both he and I, because I am prompting him to give it. He now cannot give freely, and with feeling, for in my 'fishing,' I have robbed him of the opportunity.
I might do that every now and then, and get away with it, but if I constantly seek his approval, all it will do is repel him. I have a little sister who does this very thing... and I swear, she is so emotionally needy, I can hardly stand to be around her. She is flippin' exhausting. I don't spend much time with her.
It is the exact same thing with sex, and, I would suspect, the reason CeMar feels so dissatisfied... why many HD people feel so dissatisfied with sex.
Sounds nice in theory, and maybe it will work for a while for someone who is single, but I don’t see this a reality for the majority of society, especially those who are married. The problem as I see is in your term “as long as you don't limit your dependency to a particular person.” If you stick to this rule, then you will never achieve a close, intimate relationship. You will only have friend or acquaintances, even though they may be sex friends. But in so doing, haven’t you just thrown up another variant of a defensive wall?
Well, I'm a bit confused about the whole issue at the moment. For instance, I was thinking today that I'm going to go back to thinking of NG as being my lover rather than my boyfriend because the word "lover" makes me feel less fused than the word "boyfriend". It's like I'm going to ruin the hot sex just by thinking the word. If he's my lover, I laugh when he throws the half-folded laundry off the bed. If he's my boyfriend, I start thinking about helping him fold the laundry afterwards. A lover exists purely for my pleasure (including the pleasure I get from giving him pleasure). A boyfriend might require some effort/emotional investment and I am still quite weary. However, my point would be that I can have just as close and intimate of a relationship with a lover as I can have with a boyfriend or a husband. I think there is vast evidence on this BB that the level of commitment to a relationship has little to do with the level of intimacy. As Schnarch makes clear, it is actually frequently much easier to reveal your deepest fantasies and dreams to the stranger in the elevator you will never see again then to the person you know you'll have to face across the dinner table each evening.
Last edited by MJontheMend; 08/11/0701:59 AM.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
but his words don't "make" me feel beautiful. AND if I have a day where I feel great about myself and he doesn't compliment me, I STILL feel great. Same thing with work. I don't think I did a great job on my last project BUT the client and my boss did and I received a 20% salary increase. I still know that I did NOT do a great job. And at a past job, my boss criticized me and did not comment on my good performance. I still KNEW that I had done a good job. The balancing thing with work is that I am smart enough to always listen to critiques and I even ask for them if I don't get them. Then I have to weigh those critiques and consider if they are accurate. I believe I always have to look at improving.