In the perfect world it perhaps works like that but it doesn't necessarily always work like that with LD men or with a H like mine (suffering from attachment theory)
**sigh** sure wish it was that easy
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
... it's not even so much that I want to be chased (although that is cool too) as that I wanted to be hungrily growled at and devoured .....
... catching me is easy .... maybe too easy?
MJ, I am buying this book tomorrow (it's "He Comes Next", right?). You (well, and the author) are definitely on to something here. I have had two experiences in the past week that make me very open to the possibility. In both, I was being flirtatious in a situation (once in the car on the way somewhere, once via instant messaging) that could not immediately lead to sex. Interestingly, the kicker in each case was when I stopped verbally pursuing and responded saucily, "You'll have to catch me first!" Large red button, push here. Who knew it could be so easy? Mind you, it didn't actually *lead* anywhere in either case. But the vibe was definitely more playful and relaxed; I could almost see his "chase instinct" kick in a bit.
I'm not sure entirely what to do with this; I've never been a game player and actually am really put off by any kind of "testing", manipulative behavior; playing 'hard to get', etc., that whole (so-called "female") indirect communication thing. Be open, honest, and say what you want; that was my motto. While I still believe that .... maybe there needs to be some wiggle room in sexual matters ..... thinking hard right now.
On the other hand .... I have also done some ... well, several ... of those "public teases" the author refers to. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. On those occasions when your partner isn't paying much attention to sexual signals and is only waiting for those chemicals to build back up in their system (and believes that the *only* thing that will make them reWolf is that) ... nothing may be effective.
But even a partial success rate based on strategy/knowlege is probably a lot better than lucking into it and then still being a bit frustrated because you don't even know what you did *right* ....
... although I would still hate to feel like I was gaming him, pulling his strings ..... hmmmmmmmmm ....
... it's in a good cause, right???
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I think there's a difference between "being manipulative" sexually and "playing" sexually. I would say that the difference would be in intent. If your intent is to give or share pleasure or arousal then how can it be wrong unless one believes that the pursuit of pleasure itself is wrong due to prudish conformity to "adult" standards of proper behavior (everything from old-school feminism to fundamentalist religious beliefs to the Puritan/Corporate work ethic might apply.)
Also, I think that the core of the advice being offered here is simply that if a woman wishes to assertively initiate sex, she should put the focus on her own body and sexuality rather than the man's body or sexuality. The reason this can be difficult to do is that our culture doesn't exactly promote "feel great about your body and your sexuality" conditions for women. Of course, the greater the anxiety a man needs to overcome to be sexual, the more self-confident a woman needs to be. A perfect example of how this kind of thing can work or not work was that for a while the "trick" of fondling my own breasts in front of my 2bx worked to turn him on. When it stopped working what he said was "I can tell that you are doing it for me not for yourself." He could tell that I desired his reaction not the action itself so he felt pressured to react. Well, I guess sometimes you're peeling an apple and sometimes you're peeling an onion and sometimes you don't know which one until you're left with a handful of nothing.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Ah the chase! All good ideas Mojo. I have very occasionally been able to get H to chase me and it is good fun. But I have to say it is not a natural modus operandi for him. It is almost like he is the one that would rather be chased - as you said feminine top. Even when we do go into chase mode when he catches me he tends to revert back to his favoured languid sensuous style.
When I was first dating xBF I used to go out on the town with him all dressed up but with no knickers on. I would be continually giving him little reminders about it, like telling him how wet I was getting between the legs with no cotton there etc, or that I could feel a draught. It worked a treat!
When I was first dating H we had to do a lot of sneaking around a) because I hadn't quite ditched xBF (yes I was a very morally reprehensible person back then and not at all differentiated) and b) because we were close work colleagues and didn't want the others to know about it. There was a hell of a lot of pent up desire going on between us, I guess it was the equivalent of the tease, and the sparks certainly flew.
I get the feeling that the sneaking around that you and NG are doing at the moment is all adding fuel to the flames!
Nowadays though if I try to tease or get him to chase me he just seems to get resentful about it like I'm denying him his rights. Like 'why are you being so difficult about this?' In fact I haven't even bothered to try in a good while. He's the same if I say something about him wanting to have his wicked way with me, he gets all hung up on the word wicked and seems to think I'm implying his drive is bad or disgusting. Why is it so darn difficult to explain to him that I'd really like to be hunted down, caught, and for him have his wicked way? He is WAY too much of a nice guy.
Kettricken:
You know if you're not that into something you're not likely to get all kitted out with the right equipment are you? I guess that's why I've never really thought about getting any toys. But I think I might buy myself a little birthday present
I was giving the whole thing a bit more thought, and realised that I DO sometimes O in my sleep and that is pure fantasy with nothing physical going on at all. Maybe things would work better for me if I just carried on fantasising without any touching at all, see if I can just give myself a mind-fcuk. Now there's a thought
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
If your intent is to give or share pleasure or arousal then how can it be wrong unless one believes that the pursuit of pleasure itself is wrong due to prudish conformity to "adult" standards of proper behavior (everything from old-school feminism to fundamentalist religious beliefs to the Puritan/Corporate work ethic might apply.)
I think you may have hit may H's nail on the head here.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
[quote=Kettricken)I'm not sure entirely what to do with this; I've never been a game player and actually am really put off by any kind of "testing", manipulative behavior; playing 'hard to get', etc., that whole (so-called "female") indirect communication thing. Be open, honest, and say what you want; that was my motto. While I still believe that .... maybe there needs to be some wiggle room in sexual matters ..... thinking hard right now.
[/quote]
I, too, have felt uncomfortable "using" sexuality in this way as I like to think of myself as a straightforward, honest person, but now I am beginning to see that health is in finding a balance. There is a way to be playful without being over the top manipulative, which can be just plain FUN for both partners. I agree with MJ that it is a question of intent. If you begin to get off solely from the power of it all, well that is just ego. But why not enjoy some of the power, sexiness, and creativity that play has to offer? ( Corri, you recently posted something about this to me and I get it)!
Hi Hap I was being gentle on him though and promised to leave him alone if he'd had enough of me. He denied it and said he was cool with it. So we kind of languidly lay there and did mildly suggestive things to each other, it didn't heat up and I didn't want to just jump his bones again. So I just said, "It's OK if you're tired and not really in the mood". He kind of mumbled something in agreement and backed off so we just lay there for a bit. I have to say I was being very easy on him because I really wasn't sure if I could handle not doing it.
The stuff I have marked in blue is a negative push. Its not honest, and its not attractive. There is no confidance in it. You are not owning your sexuality and desire, you are trying to manuever him into reading your mind. Since you feel like a wanton barwench right now, then why not try acting like a lubricious tart with him?
What would he do if you jumped on the bed, wiggled your ass at him and said 'Rodger me rotten baby.'?
Since your going thru a cycle right now, bring your energy to it. Stop worrying about your H's O, if he want/needs it he will get his. Personally I only O 1/2 to 1/3% of the times I have sex.
The other thread you had, you told your H to 'act like a alpha man, and do this that and the other', thereby taking away (for the majority) his ability to give you what you want. Its lose/lose for both of you. NJ had some good advice.
I understand you want the assertive throw down- take what he wants and use you like a trollop, from your H, so try honestly telling him what you want. Doing that will create vulnerability/intimacy and will more likely get you want you want then doing him the favor of trying to force him to top your top which is (mostly) really unattractive.
you should create situations of sexual excitement that will naturally pump up his chemicals enough to start the chase. The two components most of these scenarios have in common are exhibitionism or revelation of fantasy and delay of gratification. The most tame example he gave was telling your guy about a sexual "dream" you had while sleeping as you're both getting ready for work. The most extreme example he gave was MBing in public in front of a guy. Some other examples would be pointing out the other women you would most likely be willing to have a threesome with when you're out at a restaurant or writing the script for an erotic movie together.
Unless you really want to engage in a threesome, I think that saying that is a bad idea also. However, making a appreciative remarks about a good looking woman, comes off as confidant and honest, as opposed to a catty insecure disparagement, the controlling accusatory rebuke when he acts like a man and notices, or the fake 'Ill pretend I didnt see her, but watch him closely to see if he does' lol.
The 'games' like this -- "naturally pump up his chemicals enough to start the chase. The two components most of these scenarios have in common are exhibitionism or revelation of fantasy and delay of gratification"---did work when I was married, but its completely transparant when women do this to incite you or try to get a reaction. From what I see occur, when a women does it intentionally and it works, she loses respect for the guy she is 'testing' with it. However I see that Mojo qualified it in a later post. To be clear, Im not against the book she is recommending, but it has to be done for your own reasons, not to control your partner. like she said here,
Quote:
Also, I think that the core of the advice being offered here is simply that if a woman wishes to assertively initiate sex, she should put the focus on her own body and sexuality rather than the man's body or sexuality..... Of course, the greater the anxiety a man needs to overcome to be sexual, the more self-confident a woman needs to be. (easy to say rare to see) A perfect example of how this kind of thing can work or not work was that for a while the "trick" of fondling my own breasts in front of my 2bx worked to turn him on. When it stopped working what he said was "I can tell that you are doing it for me not for yourself." He could tell that I desired his reaction not the action itself so he felt pressured to react.
I was going to post something along the same lines in another thread. A action that is stimulating, or attractive ceases to be when its overplayed or done to cause a reaction. For example being humourous and macho when done with the intent of getting a reaction as opposed to done to make yourself laugh or because thats how YOU FEEL about the situation. In a LTR, attempts to manipulate are insulting. If you think your spouse has neither discernment, or self respect, then by all means--give it a whirl. Honesty on the other hand is scary but unreproachable. There is a way to be playful without being over the top manipulative, which can be just plain FUN for both partners. I agree with MJ that it is a question of intent. If you begin to get off solely from the power of it all, well that is just ego. But why not enjoy some of the power, sexiness, and creativity that play has to offer?
Nicely said NJ. Good choice with the nuerobiology. The brain is the best sex organ. the rest is just connectors.
Stop worrying about your H's O, if he want/needs it he will get his. I sort of agree. His O's are mostly his job/responsibility.
Personally I only O 1/2 to 1/3% of the times I have sex. Well, that is different BF. Is that because you want it that way? Have that much control?
I can hear some woman right now thinking, "if he doesn't O, he doesn't love very much or she isn't exciting enough for him!
BF, I would think you not O’ing would cause a woman some problems? I hear women saying they get a great deal of satisfaction making, helping, or being part of the process in the guy cumming. It’s the, she gets hot because he is hot factor.
From what I see occur, when a women does it intentionally and it works, she loses respect for the guy she is 'testing' with it. However I see that Mojo qualified it in a later post. To be clear, Im not against the book she is recommending, but it has to be done for your own reasons, not to control your partner. like she said here,
I actually think you would really enjoy the book. The author combines the concepts of adding excitement (as I described above), emotional intimacy (a la Schnarch) with a lot of very interesting (to a woman) information about male sexual physiology. So he tries to encourage the female reader to take actions that will help link their partner's penis to his whole body, his heart and his mind through each stage of arousal.
I don't agree that women lose respect for men who respond when they intentionally tease unless they are just doing it in order to get validation and not to aid or express their own arousal. I just sent NG an email in which I described my little black dress in a rather teasing manner. The reason I did this is because I think I look hot in my little black dress and I wanted to share that vibe with him. Maybe what you are trying to convey is that women lose respect for men who offer validation in response to such behavior instead of recognizing it as a sign of arousal or desire. It's more validating if a man conveys "Seeing you in that dress really turns me on." but it's more sexy if a man comprehends "Wearing that dress must really turn you on.". Of course, the communication must go both ways.
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Of course, the greater the anxiety a man needs to overcome to be sexual, the more self-confident a woman needs to be. (easy to say rare to see)
True enough. It's much easier to be confident with a confident man. Not so much because he lends you confidence but rather because he gives you a space in which you can display whatever confidence you own. I don't need a man to spin me as long as he can offer a frame in which I can spin. The book I am recommending is actually sort of a manual which would allow a woman to help her partner build the frame. Definitely a confidence builder. I'm sure the companion book for men "She Comes First" would be excellent too.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I can hear some woman right now thinking, "if he doesn't O, he doesn't love very much or she isn't exciting enough for him!
Sounds like a very 'fused' woman to me.
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Personally I only O 1/2 to 1/3% of the times I have sex.
Well, that is different BF. Is that because you want it that way? Have that much control?
I don't mean to speak for blackfoot, or even 'stand up' for him, but I am curious to know if I'm in the ballpark in my thinking here... as I continue to try and understand men... so any man, including blackfoot, who might read this, please comment:
This, for me, answers Lou's question about control. It's from the book Mojo recommended. The author quoted another expert:
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By R. Louis Schultz in “Out in the Open: The Complete Male Pelvis:
To live in society, we all require a degree of control. Too much control, however, and we can become automatons. Control is always being right. Control is not letting your feelings influence your life. Control is not letting the joy of life be a goal. Control is mot expressing your feelings. Control is being neutral or neuter. Control is not being sensual. Control is lessening the enjoyment of sex. Control is not being aware or responsive to the feelings of others, since you are not aware of your own feelings. Control is always being on an even emotional plane.
A lot of woman’s complaints from women about men:
“He’s disconnected from his feelings,” , “He won’t let go, he keeps everything inside,” , “We have sex, but we don’t make love,” , “He won’t talk about sex; he walks away the minute I bring up the conversation.”
My guess is, as a single male, blackfoot just isn't in love with someone. Why would he relax his control on such a level of intimacy?
Were he to claim to be 'in love,' and his gf/wife were to say the things as quoted above, then Lou, I think you might have a valid point about a possible 'control' issue.
I think most guys, if not all, who are not in love, operate in this manner... (if I understand correctly, and yeah, I'm wondering if I do...)
