I suppose I'm wondering why do we have to wait until she is physically here to start exploring if she is willing to make a committment to trying.
Thoughts?
I think she has already answered that question for you.
Originally Posted By: Jet
She doesn't want to disappoint me or our son by moving too fast. She says her goal is to find a job and a place to live in my town and go from there. Move slowly and see where it leads. She doesn't want any closeness or to give any affection. She just wants to hang out. She said it is with me and our son that she feels safe and secure.
She is scared and uncertain. She does not want to return to the same R with you that she just left. You need to prove to her, through your actions, that things will be different and not like before. Let her move at her own pace. Patience is your biggest ally right now. She is trying to come back to you, but just needs time and NO PRESSURE!
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Jet, I posted a little to hastily above. I did not bother to read you entire thread only you past couple of post.
Man, I applaud you for your patience with your wife. It seems that you have been more then accommodating and with her and that you have given her ample time, space, patience and proven to her that you have changed and that you are not the same man she was married to.
Here is my blunt opinion (and you know what opinions are like). Seems like she is just stringing you along. She has talked about reconciling several times over a long period of time, but she has not really done anything more then talk. You have given her every opportunity to come back into your arms. My logic says she needs to sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes. But, I also know that if I were in your shoes I would not be able to tell my wife that. I would most likely continue to let her string me along.
I have to say you have done/are doing everything right for your sit. She just needs to pull the trigger and do her part now and get on the path back to you. But,she seems to lack the ability or maybe even the 100% desire to do so. She seems to want to, though her words. But then she tells you that she does not want to through her lack of actions.
I hope she will come around and take action. You may need to start to close the door of opportunity for her to return. You have given here plenty of time and she has had plenty of chances. You sound like a good man and you deserve someone in your life who wants to share your love and happiness and to take pictures with where you are both smiling in them. Maybe you need to reconfirm to her that you want her back and remind her of the terms you have already set forth if she does return, but you also need to tell her that this is not a opened ended offer and that you can not sit idly by indefinitely while she strings you and the OM along.
Best wishes to you. You are a good man and you have given me hope for my own sit. I know you will be ok, because you already are. You have already started a new life for you and your son. But, you are just patiently waiting for your wife to take action. But, even if she does not, like your wife says, you will make your next wife very happy with the new you. Your X knows that.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
There has been so many little things over the 5 days I can't remember them all at once so I will post them as I can recall them.
During the conversation that I instinctively kissed her...a couple of things preceding that moment were: She said she felt enormous guilt for breaking up the family and also felt guilt that I could still love her and want her back. I hugged her and told her I loved her and she responded I love you too. Then the kiss and the crying and any prospects of further closeness ended there. She did say that even though she wasn't ready to receive affection in the form of kisses, holding hands, etc....that she didn't mind when I touched her....like putting my hand on her leg when we sit together....that she liked that.
So....it's like I have a genie lamp. I can rub all over it and then sit it on the mantle and imagine what it might feel like if it had hands. :-)
Under those circumstances, the kiss was very appropriate and seems like quite a defining moment.
Quote:
Do I continue to exercise patience and allow her to make the move and see what happens?
Yeah man. That's the plan.
You have been incredibly patient up until now. Now you need to find more patience.
It sounds like she's wanting to make a fresh start by moving closer. Let her do it on her own time line.
All that talk about not wanting any intimacy, affection, closeness etc....believe it but don't be put off by it. It's all part of the close stages of the role play.
Suit
"It's better to have no spouse than have a bad spouse"
I'm also confused how to feel about OM. On one hand I feel happy that I may be putting a bug in his soup. On the other, it bothers me that she is here with me talking reconcilliation and then goes back home to him. It makes me feel like giving the ultimatum but somehow I don't think that is a good idea. I feel pretty certain she is stuck in the mud on this affection thing because she can't give it to both of us.
Update on other developments today.
The ex has spent much of the day re-decorating our son's room....with existing things and things she bought on a shopping trip this afternoon.
We also went to our son's open house at his school. It is a Christian school and my ex asked what she should wear. I told her to stay conservative. She looked very nice but a little too low cut I thought for the occasion. I answered honestly when she asked and she got a little upset. She responded: I guess you can't accept me for who I am. Anyways, foot in mouth disease on that one.
On the other, it bothers me that she is here with me talking reconcilliation and then goes back home to him. It makes me feel like giving the ultimatum but somehow I don't think that is a good idea. I feel pretty certain she is stuck in the mud on this affection thing because she can't give it to both of us.
That is the biggest quandary I have about your wife also. How can she reconcile, while she is still actively seeing OM. Perplexing to say the least. That is where she needs to prove to you that she is serious about reconciling. You need to tell her that is that first step she needs to take. Until that happens all her talk about reconciling, is just that, talk. And to me her acts of affection and saying I love you are lies and not sincere. If they were, there would not still be OM.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
What I meant was is that there seems to several different scripts as in play scripts that WA's are following. There's a script for those that never come back, there's a script for those that are stuck with OP and in your case, there's a script for the WA's that start out angry, get a taste of what real living is like and decide to make their way back. Your WAW is in the closing stages of the working to the script.
You need to get over this OM business if you want her back which you appear to do. Personally, I wouldn't but it's your life and because that's what you want, I want to encourage you.
However, if you are going to get back together then you need to within yourself, deal with the bitterness of this betrayal. Otherwise, she's going to move to town, get affectionate like she's promised and you're going to get your shorts all twisted up because of OM. That's not good Jet and it may mean the failure of your reconciliation.
Deal with it while she has given you the gift of time.
Suit
"It's better to have no spouse than have a bad spouse"
Jet, I agree with Suit. If you really want her back, and that is something you need to decide one way or the other, then you need to do it unconditionally and that means accepting her for who she is and what she did.
But also realize that you fall under a common theme here - that as long as the OM is in the picture there will be no real progress. She is trying to deal with her past and her demons yet OM represents her life line. Until she gives that up the situation will remain stagnent.
If you think it is best to try again then patience is the path. That sucks, but that is the price. If OM remains then it is time to look back into the mirror and ask if you really do want her or if she is no longer right for you. She cannot have it both ways unless you are willing to be hurt.
Thanks to all of you for the support. We had another conversation last night and it will be the last one. I told her what was mentioned above about not progressing as long as someone else was in the picture. I mentioned that she will feel uncomfortable sharing affection with me as long as it continues to be shared with OM. She said she was not sharing herself physically with anyone and hasn't for sometime.
Lets look at the facts as I have hit myself with a 2x4 at this point. Disappointment is not created by the actions of someone else. It is created when their actions do not meet your expectations. I created in my mind the things I wanted to happen this week and they didn't. As a result, I opened up and shared my thoughts and feelings questioning the back forth attitude she has had. With these conversations, I have generated pressure which we all know typically results in a defensive posture and a tendency to run.
Last night's talk did not have any positive effects that can be seen. It is amazing how different things feel now compared to the talk she and I had earlier this week when we kissed. The foot in the mouth comment has had longer lasting effects than I anticiapted too. She brought that up again. She acknowledges the changes but also views that commment as an indicator that I'm not willing to truly accept her.
You want an example of what pressure does. We went from "I wouldn't be comfortable moving into your house" to "I don't need anyone to help support me. This isn't my home. I don't want it to be my home." Out of frustration, I eventually told her that the next time she told me that I wasn't what she wanted that I would close the door and never look back. I couldn't stand by and accept the indecision. The next time she felt like this was the end, I would chime in and make it a joint decision. I asked if this was the time. She said I guess so.
As she stood up to leave the room. She said I know you feel like your life is on hold and it shouldn't be. Do what you want and if we are meant to be, it will happen.
Months of solid work have been harmed with these talks. I felt we had progressed enough to engage in R talk and it be safe but not true. The first talk was more compassionate and she made it clear where she was and requested more time. I pushed it, letting my emotions overcome the patience that I have committed myself to. So guys....give me the kick in the butt I deserve for wanting too much too fast.
Sorry to hear that you're not feeling real good about the talk so I thought I'd stop by to cheer you up.
Actually, you did really good. It could have been way worse but the way that I read it, your sitch is getting better and better.
You must at this stage be thinking that this Suit guy is crazy. Well, I not crazy because even though you took a long backslide, the lesson that you have learnt is very important.
The lesson that you will take with you for the rest of your life is -
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ENGAGE IN AN "OUR RELATIONSHIP" TALK.
That's right NEVER. Repeat after me, NEVER ENGAGE IN AN R TALK....EVER.
Jet, tell me where is that we got the idea that R talks are important and necessary to build a good, loving relationshp?
I'll tell you where. It's a figment of people's imagination, it's a fishermans' tale. It's a myth that's been passed down from really dumb generations onto even dumber ones.
There is no reason for this belief. It's like when people thought the earth was flat. It's the same deal with R talks. I'm the guy that's now telling you the earth is round.
I bet you are surprised by this stage. Because it's completely true. R talks ALWAYS do more harm than good. You are living proof of this.
So, tell me. What's the dumb guy do? You know, the one whose life is one big cheeseless tunnel. That's right, he waits till things cool down a little to initiate another R talk.......
What an R talk is about is you telling someone that you don't like something about them and you want them to change. Right?
Or, it's pressure like....."c'mon tell me, where is this going?" or it's control like "unless you stop seeing OM1, OM2 & OM3 then I'm done with you".
Jet, I hope by now I've delivered my case why we should NEVER do R talk. Even when things are good, we shouldn't do R talk let alone, when things are bad. The worse the sitch, the worse the outcome of an R talk is.
So Jet, if I were you, I'd get a big bunch of flowers delivered and say "sorry that I was such an a$$ the other night. I do love you and accept you for who you are, Jet". P.S. If I promise to behave myself in future, can we get naked please?
God Bless
Suit
"It's better to have no spouse than have a bad spouse"
