Making the Move

[care]

Finally making the move to piecing. A little nervous just to be posting as if it will jinx the progress that has been made in the past few months between H and I. I remember talking to Jen and Rob on the phone during one of the DB outings several months ago, hoping to meet them here, but now that I am posting, I am hesitant, thinking to myself, is this where I should be?

a link to my old thread in Newcomers
Care's last thread (partial)

I haven't posted in a while. Had gone on vacation with the family including H. Big difference from last year where I went with the kids and left H at home as it was just after the bomb.

Quick update and a little background for those new to my sitch:

Married 13 years, known H for over 23 years. 3 kids. Typical busy life style with two working parents and active kids who play many after school sports but my M got away from me and H was put on the backburner as I didn't make time for him in our busy schedule.
So, last year I find out that H was having an EA with our realtor. H was done, wanted out, didn't want to be without the kids but didn't want to stay with me. I really didn't go into the begging/pleading stage. I simply cried a lot and because I was also laid off from my job at the time, just had too much time on my hands to think. H just stayed away from me as much as possible from last July to Jan or Feb of this year. Then he started to stick around more, he started going to MC with the intention of getting things settled for D. I found DB around Aug/Sept 06 and read all of the suggested books and started GAL.

Fast forward to today: new job, H has recommitted both verbally and in action. We still go to MC and IC as well.

My H has some idealistic views on R where he believes that he shouldn't have to tell me if he has an issue because then I will only change because it was brought up not because I wanted to. H tends to clam up when something is bothering him and processes things in his own head without talking to me about it. He has drawn his own conclusions before getting all of the info. Yes, these are big topics in MC.

The issue now is that I cannot seem to be able to get the OW out of my head. She lives in the same town that we do; her son plays sports with our kids so we see her all the time. yes, I know, don't let this OW have power over me, etc... Makes sense and all but easier said than done. I get all tense when I know I am going to see her, can't look at her, let alone talk to her (as my D6 is climbing on her). OW and I used to be friendly with each other. Not friends per se, but sports mom's hanging out talking while our kids played. My IC says I should nuetralize her by talking to her. Just can't do it.

H and I have talked about this. I told him how I feel and he gets it and does reassure me that it is me that he wants and that professing his undying love and commitment to her last year was a side effect of not feeling that from me and not something that he actually felt for her. So at this point, it is me according to H that is stopping the progress that we have made. Last MC session, he said that this puts us back.

I attempted to discuss with him a few nights ago as I recently met up with some other DB friends and their families (without H). I've told him about this support group that I joined and that I need help in getting past this. The talk went something like this:
me: IC asked why I can forgive you and move on but not forgive OW?
H: forgive me, why forgive me? I did nothing wrong.
me: falling in love with someone else when you're married is not right.
H: silence

He has said this before. H believes that because he never slept with her that he did nothing wrong.

So here we are now, H thinks that my inability to get over OW is hindering our ability to move forward. I think that his view of things (did nothing wrong) may be part of the problem that I cannot seem to let it go. I think to myself, if H admitted that it was wrong, would that help me let it go? I am not sure. I know that he has let her go.

Well, thanks for reading if you've gotten this far.

[Concerned_Listener]

Care,
Congratulations on keeping your M together. You've worked very hard to earn your way here. I too am new to the Piecing forum.

It sounds like talking to your H about your ruminations about the OW is not helpful to you or the M, so it's probably best to discontinue R talks on that topic for now. What's important is that you're able to be positive and present in the R in spite of those thoughts/feelings. You'll just have to tolerate them for now while you work thru them with your IC, and express them here with us.

CL

[NikB]

Care - good to see you posting here!! Looks like you're a bit further along than me in that your H is fully committed to you, but I can sure see some similarities to my sitch. My H feels the same way - because he hasn't slept with her, there's nothing wrong with it. I swear if I hear "just a friend" again my head might actually explode.

I'm in the same boat of giving her way too much power in my life right now too. It's easier to ignore her when your H isn't committed anyway. It's a whole lot harder when you're trying to fix your M! I actually think you and your H are both right. You need to let it go - but I don't think you can until he admits that it was wrong. Why? Because if it wasn't wrong, what's to prevent it from happening again??

Someone emailed me a good article about EA's the other day. I'll see if I can find it and maybe something in it will help. It might even be something to share with your H? I don't know, maybe ask the IC first. I know usually not to "push" them to agree with us, but maybe it would help him see your perspective better.

[NikB]

Here's that article. I can't give credit because it was a forward to me, and I don't know where it came from originally. Thought it was good though.

------------------
How to Recognize and Cope with an Emotional Affair

Did you know that an emotional affair can be just as dangerous to a marriage as a physical affair, and sometimes more so? And that spouses who never had any intention of cheating can unwittingly become enmeshed in an emotional affair?

Many spouses will shrug off questions about an emotional affair with the reply that “It’s harmless” or “We’re just friends.” They fail to see the damage that the emotional closeness with someone outside of the marriage is doing to the primary relationship.

Individuals who are the most vulnerable to becoming involved in an emotional affair are those in a marriage where emotional intimacy is lacking. Their marriage may be going through a period of hostility, emotional distance, and conflict. The “friends” are sucked into the emotional affair by the seductive lure and pull of an intense emotional connection to each other that feels easy, safe, and comforting.

Under the surface there’s a strong sexual chemistry that’s covered up by the “friendship.” And, of course, there’s the excitement that’s heightened by the secrecy that surrounds the new-found intimacy. Even though the “friendship” may begin innocently enough, as it progresses the bond between the two individuals deepens and drains energy away from the marital relationship.

The two individuals involved in the emotional affair may have been casual friends or co-workers to start with. Or they may have met online in a chat room. At some point, they started confiding feelings and personal details about themselves, their partners, and their relationships that their spouses would have seen as a violation of trust. And that was the first danger signal that indicated trouble ahead.

The second danger indicator was when they started sharing more with the “friend” than with their spouse and depending on the “friend” for their primary emotional support. At some point, they began to feel that the “friend” understood them better than their own spouse did and was easier to communicate with. They felt a sense of companionship with the “friend” that was lacking with their spouse.

The third red flag indicating danger ahead was when they began keeping their conversations and the frequency of contact secret from their spouses. This is a definite danger sign. Both individuals knew that their spouses would be upset if they knew the extent of the contact, the depth of the emotional connection, and the intimate subjects being routinely discussed.

Finding out that your spouse is involved in an emotional affair can feel like the ultimate betrayal, and many spouses view it that way. They view what has happened as deception and they feel betrayed.

The partner involved in the emotional affair usually attempts to downplay and minimize what has happened. She (or he) may rationalize that nothing physical has happened, so there’s nothing for the spouse to be upset about. She may accuse the spouse of being jealous and controlling to get him to back off.

But an emotional affair can hasten the demise of a marriage. It drains the attention and focus that could have been put into tackling problems in the marriage and improving the quality of the relationship. Instead, it siphons off the energy that’s needed to put new life into a tired, ailing marriage. The spouse ends up forming a close, intimate connection with a “friend” outside the marriage while the marriage suffers from emotional neglect and decreased commitment.

The sad thing is that if the “friends” end up divorcing their respective spouses and getting married, the same patterns that were present in their former marriages will show up once again down the road in the new marriage.

When challenging problems develop again, they will be inclined to repeat their pattern of escaping and avoiding them by bonding with another “friend” for support. Issues that haven’t been dealt with in one relationship always resurface again in subsequent relationships. It’s only a matter of time until they pop up again.

So what can you do if you or your spouse is involved in an emotional affair?

Tips for Handling an Emotional Affair

Here are some tips to follow if you are serious about wanting to keep your marriage:

1. Immediately, make your marriage your top priority. Direct your time, energy, focus, and attention on understanding what has happened and coming up with an action plan to improve the emotional intimacy in your marriage.

Cut back on elective activities and carve out time to spend with your spouse. Everything else is secondary if you truly want your marriage to make it.

[Nikki's note: I am not so sure about this one and would be curious to get thoughts - this seems like a slippery slope for those of us who "lost" ourselves in the M..]

2. Marriage counseling is a must in order to have a safe place to discuss the emotionally-charged issues surrounding an emotional affair. It helps considerably to have an objective professional who can help guide you and your spouse through the landmines.

You want to get the real issues and accompanying feelings out in the open where they can be addressed. If you try to cover things up and limp along without really looking closely at why the emotional betrayal happened, nothing has been remedied. That’s a set-up for having a repeat experience.

3. Both spouses need to make a commitment to ending any secrecy about who they are talking to, how often, what about, etc. There can’t be anything hidden if trust is going to be regained and the marital relationship healed.

The same dynamics that are present in a physical affair will be present in an emotional affair, also. The spouse with the “friend” may not have overtly lied to the partner about the emotional dependency but rather just didn’t ever mention it, an act of omission. The impact on the relationship is the same.

4. Obviously, contact with the “friend” cannot continue in the same way. Seeing that person and having some interaction may be necessary if both parties work together, and there will certainly be a period of transition involved.

Anything involving a work situation can be awkward and delicate, and co-workers are bound to notice the change in interactions between the person ending the affair and the “friend.” There’s nothing easy about ending an emotional affair. The painful period just has to be endured. If the situation is unworkable, one or the other may need to change jobs.

5. Consider your counseling options. If your spouse is involved in an emotional affair and won’t acknowledge the seriousness of it, make any changes, or agree to go to counseling to discuss it, then you need to begin individual counseling sessions to help you deal with the situation and decide what to do.

Sometimes you have to tread lightly when a partner is caught up in an emotional affair and give things some time and space. In some cases, the current “friend” will eventually pull away and get closer to a new “friend” on the scene. If that happens, your spouse may be more likely to look back at the marriage with more interest.

If not, the moment will probably eventually come when you won’t be able to tolerate the situation any longer and may need to consider a separation. Sometimes, this serves as the catalyst to make a spouse reconsider what he or she is doing.

There are many options on the continuum of what to do next, and that’s where a counselor can be of valuable assistance.
--------------------

I think you're already through or working on a lot of these steps - but the first part describing what an EA is and how it happens might be useful?

[SDFoundGirl]

He has said this before. H believes that because he never slept with her that he did nothing wrong.

So here we are now, H thinks that my inability to get over OW is hindering our ability to move forward. I think that his view of things (did nothing wrong) may be part of the problem that I cannot seem to let it go. I think to myself, if H admitted that it was wrong, would that help me let it go? I am not sure. I know that he has let her go.

A question, sweetie: Do you want to be right or happy?

I can tell you from experience, only YOU can do what's necessary to let go of OW. Your H has already let her go as you said. How does him admitting he was wrong change things? He can say whatever, can even really mean it, and it doesn't guarantee he won't leave, develop another EA in the future, etc. You have no control over those things. Who DO you have control over? YOU.

I held on to my H's EA (she works with him) for a long time after he'd let her go. I kept thinking if he just got a different job, if he never talked to her again, etc. *I* brought her into our lives daily, not in word, but in spirit. LW (my acronymn for her) came to visit me everyday in my mind, and it kept ME from trusting H, letting go of the past summer, and building a strong R.

So I decided to work on letting her go. You have to figure out what the payoff is for holding on to this. For me, LW was an excuse to not get closer to H. She was my insurance that I wouldn't get hurt again, that if I was vigilant, he'd never hurt me like that again. When you start looking at those things, especially on paper, you see what kind of faulty logic it is. And then you can start to let things go.

You have to stay lovingly detached for the rest of your life which only means that YOU are the one you rely on, count on, etc. Your H is a CHOICE, not a NEED.

Your H can't do anything to help you here sweetie. This is your work to do. H has done his...and really, even if you guys moved halfway across the world and never saw OW again, it wouldn't change things. She'd still be in your mind and heart.

Let her go. Right or happy? I DO love to be right, but happy feels better. I choose happiness. Love yourself, trust yourself, and start working on letting her go. You can check out my thread in piecing to see how I worked on letting this go if you think it will help.

Lots more to write...your H sounds A LOT like my H...

SD

[SDFoundGirl]

Why? Because if it wasn't wrong, what's to prevent it from happening again??

Nikki, you know I love you darling, but even if he admits it's wrong, there's NOTHING TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN. You've seen the "wrong" things people do all the time on this board...again and again. They know it's wrong, but it feels better than where they were at.

There are no guarantees...but if you continue to focus your attention on those things you DON'T want, those are exactly the things you will attract into your life. You can't control what your H does; you can only control what you do. Let go of your fear. I'm not saying it's easy, but if you want to be happy, if you want to be open to working on your M with your H, it's what you have to do.

SD

[NikB]

SD - that's a really good point. I guess the difference is the "knowing it's wrong" vs. justifying that it's not wrong... in Care's case (like mine) they don't even seem to know it. But I guess deep down they probably do.

And you're right, we sure don't have any control over it anyway!

[RedHeadWife]

I have to totally agree w/ your IC. Think about how much power you would take back FOR YOU if you looked her in the eye and talked to her about the kids, the weather, whatever and knew that she knew what she had done w/ your H and how wrong that was, but you are strong enough and self-assured enough to face her. You now have H back and that's what matters. You need to show that you are the bigger person here.

I can't really give you any other advice on how I finally quit "dwelling" on the OW. It did take awhile, however, I guess it has a lot to do w/ the trust we re-build for our H. The fact that I knew I would be strong enough that if it did happen again, he would get a HUGE BOOT and I'm pretty sure he knew it couldn't happen again either. It does take time though. It's a grieving process we go through when our H has an A, whether EA or PA.

I think your sitch that led up to the EA, etc. sounds a lot like mine and millions of others. Our H's just don't realize, and I guess we didn't realize back then, how often this happens. We end up putting our H and our M on the backburner while dealing w/ everything else when we need to be making sure we are putting in the effort it takes to keep our M alive. I didn't realize how much I was missing by not making sure the intimacy, closeness, etc. was still there for my H and I. Glad we got a 2nd chance to make it right.

[care]

Thank you all for the welcome posts.

Attempting to use S_O_T_S method of quoting...

Nikki, thanks for that article. I wish that H would read this because from my perspective, it does outline the how and the why of what happened to an extent. My H does not admit that it was an EA. Our MC is trying to get him to understand that the level of intimacy that he was giving to OW was taking away from that in our M. My H is a smart man, I know he gets this. Admitting it, when it identifies a shortcoming on his part, is something else...
I plan on forwarding this to our MC to see what he thinks about sharing it with H.

[Nikki's note: I am not so sure about this one [Immediately, make your marriage your top priority. Direct your time, energy, focus, and attention on understanding what has happened and coming up with an action plan to improve the emotional intimacy in your marriage. ] and would be curious to get thoughts - this seems like a slippery slope for those of us who "lost" ourselves in the M..]
I totally agree. When the EA was first brought up, the last thing on H's mind was to make our M a top priority. And I learned that GAL was more important for me at that time too.

To answer SD:
A question, sweetie: Do you want to be right or happy?

I want to be happy. But I need a way to get over the OW. The thought that perhaps H's view point that he did nothing wrong is what is keeping me from letting it go, just came to me during our conversation the other night. I am trying to figure out a way to let it go. I try the stop sign approach. Nada. I try redirecting my thoughts. Nope. It doesn't help that my kids talk to OW.
I know that OW must feel awkward as well.

You have to figure out what the payoff is for holding on to this.

I have thought about this. I wonder if it is because if I let her go then I won't have a reminder to not become complacent again in my M. If I let her go, am I minimizing all that occurred the past year like my H when he refers to the things that happened as 'bumps in the road'.

To respond to Cadesmom:
Think about how much power you would take back FOR YOU if you looked her in the eye and talked to her.
My H thinks I should do the same thing. He has talked to OW about the kids during some sport. It is different though since he is the coach of the team. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that H got her out of his system. I know this took a while as he often said last year that he had to understand what his attraction to OW meant. I cannot seem to get over this hump though. I get all worked up about it. Sweaty palms, sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, the intense feeling of dread. Sometimes it is just the anticipation of seeing OW that gets me like this. Stupid as that might sound...

And yes, I am glad that I have a second chance to make it right. H and I are more open with each other than we've been in years. H still processes things on his own but I can break in to his inner circle and he'll share with me. The break in may not have been invited but he is receptive to it.

[SDFoundGirl]

Hon...

I know the answers seem like they should be outside of us, but everything you need is already inside of you. The equipment to deal with it is inside of you. H can't do a thing...our brains are trained to look outside of ourselves to blame so we don't have to take on the hard thinking, but we have to be conscious and understand that until we deal with our thoughts inside of us, there will be no change.

I'm getting ready to take off for the day, but sometime between today and tomorrow I'll try to post some of the journaling strategies I used to help deal with the OW in my case. It was hard, but when I finally said ENOUGH and focused my attention on taking control of my life and my thoughts again instead of giving up my power to that whore (yeah, still don't like her...more work to do there *grin*), it happened.

Be gentle with yourself. Get physically active doing something--walking, shopping, talking on the phone to a friend, reading, etc.--when OW pops into your head.

I'll send you some strategies later tonight/early tomorrow....

SD