Am I seperated? Looking for support/advice...

[whatsyourpoint]

Hi,

There are a number of positive things that I read in catching up on your sitch.

1. H did see C, told you about it, it kept him in the house and he made another appt.

2. read your GAL efforts. Bravo!

3. not initiating R talk

4. keeping your space - that is the hardest thing for me, to be patient, to keep my hands to myself, to hold back until my wife reaches for me. It's started to happen, and that makes it hard not to revert to old ways. I know our sitches are opposite in this way (who has the high vs. low interest in sex), but H is at least as confused as you are. It's going to take time for H to recognize all the work you've done and what he still probably feels.

As far as holding back the tears. I agree w/ CVA keep them in check when around H, they don't help his opinion of you.

I agree w/ Heimlich that you should probably make H wonder where you are.

Having any conversation with H is likely to be difficult for a while, but hang in there, and don't get too excited when even a trivial conversation does. This is a long process, and you have turned so many things around already.

Good luck. Be strong.

[Heimlich]

Saving,

It might be awkward, but staying in the same house is probably a good thing. Your H said something about small talk being awkward. In some ways, it is. Behind this idle chit-chat, there are these HUGE issues looming and you just want to let them out. I know that feeling all too well. But, couple of things:

1. How much of married conversation is really just idle chit-chat anyway? So, making small talk, while a little awkward at first, is pretty close to what most of us were doing anyway. Keep trying. If he seems pressured, even by weather comments , go read a book, do pilates, etc.

2. You're not going to break through with a BIG relationship talk. To bring your M together, it's going to take time and small, almost imperceptable steps. Plus, you can't do a R talk daily, it's just too emotionally exhausting. At least for me, and I know for my W.

I know what you mean, I'd love to jump my W's bones. Cold showers and exercise.

And, please. Eat well. If you can't eat well, eat. Eat some comfort food to at least get something in you.

Just curious, where did you go hiking? I'm thinking of taking my girls, and W if she wants to, around Camp David either this weekend or next.

It will get better,

BD

[savingus77]

Thanks all for you comments. I am feeling a little stronger today. Each day is different for me.

I will continue to "fake it till I make it!"

Just hearing your supportive comments helps a great deal.

I am definately being conscious of what, when & how much I eat. But I am pretty small framed to begin with and it is way too easy for me to drop weight. If I am feeling like I can't eat a meal I make sure to drink one of those gross "ensure" drinks - I just suck it down with a straw so I can't taste it. At least it gets the nutrients in.

About making him wonder where I am - I know that is probably good advice but I have issues with it for the following reasons:
1.) That is not the way I have ever been and I feel like it would be obvious why I was doing it. I also feel as though it would be "playing games" and I hate that stuff.
2.) If I were to start that, I know he would as well and as strong as I feel I am right at this moment - I know it would drive me absolutely nuts if he was not letting me know when/if he was going to be home etc.

I like what was said above about the small talk and how that is a big part of M's anyway and that no major change will come out of a big discussion. It just has to be small, steady and consistent. Like you all keep saying => patience! I am learning, slowly, but learning...

Heim - that sounds like a great idea to go hiking w/W and D's. When I went there were so many families doing that & many brought their dogs. I think it is a good opportunity for you 2 to have quality time to talk - but not so much pressure if there is silence since there is so much going on around you. Also just the scenary is so beautiful that how can it not put someone in a slightly better mood? For me, I live in NJ so there are some mtns by me that I went to.

Also, just this morning I saw a piece of paper from his IC on the counter. On it was a note of the 23rd - so I am thinking that is when his next appt. is. 2 weeks? C'mon? I was hoping that he was at least going to go 1-2 wk to figure out what he wants to do. But at least he's going there instead of a lawyers office right?

You all still think I should not reach out for any affection, even a hug? Like I said it has been weeks since I have stopped and he hasn't initiated... (Did I happen to mention that he is the most stubborn person I know? And all his friends/family would agree with that one!) Which makes me think, if I don't he NEVER will...

[whatsyourpoint]

You all still think I should not reach out for any affection, even a hug? Like I said it has been weeks since I have stopped and he hasn't initiated... (Did I happen to mention that he is the most stubborn person I know? And all his friends/family would agree with that one!) Which makes me think, if I don't he NEVER will...

If you are reaching out, whose needs does that seem to meet?

Some of the most important things to mellow my W's attitude have demonstrated how I have thought about what she might need (bringing her cell phone to work because she was going out after work, packing leftovers so she could take them for lunch, typing something for her blog so she could just post it, bringing her unexpected flowers to work). This way, she knows I am aware of what she needs and am not forcing my way into her thoughts.

In the past, I would have tried to turn any affection from her into an opportunity to escalate the level of intimacy. That was a major turnoff because it is selfish. Now, if my W reaches out for me in bed, I just take her hand, hold it and am happy to be connected.

If H is so stubborn, any pressure will just make him dig his heels in further. This might sound weird, but have you thought about asking for permission for a hug instead of just reaching out? Rejection sucks either way, but at least by asking, you are respecting his right (even as a dude) to say no.

[Not Much Left]

S

You all still think I should not reach out for any affection, even a hug? Like I said it has been weeks since I have stopped and he hasn't initiated... (Did I happen to mention that he is the most stubborn person I know? And all his friends/family would agree with that one!) Which makes me think, if I don't he NEVER will...

I feel ya on this, my W never initiates anything so I have said the exact same thing, if I dont, she never will!!! So, having connected w/ you there, here is my advice, give it time, then test the waters, time means a month at leat IMO.


I know you think it is a "playing games" or totally unlike you to pull back a bit, but you dont have to be "like totally unavailable", it can be subtle. That is a 180, yes? At the end of the day, the goal is to be a bit more self aware and be a person who is not always at your Spouse's beckon call and so predictable. That is BORING anyway!

You mention 2 weeks being a long time and he should have figure this out in a week or 2, WRONG! In a WAS mind, Ill bet 2 weeks is pushing the bounds of even thinking about doing this, so I say this is a good thing!

CVA

[savingus77]

I would like to ask for a hug, which I had been doing in the past when I had been initiating - but I want to make sure that I don't come across as "needy".

CVA - I think I needed to rephrase what I wrote above. I didn't mean that I expected him to have a decision in 2wks - but that I would have thought he would have wanted to go to therapy 1-2 per week to help him make his decision (not going every 2 weeks).

People have been asking me how long I would stay in this limbo stage. Where he is saying he wants out, but not doing anything in either direction. And I don't know myself. I do know that everyday that goes by when we are like this, I find that our love diminishes more and more. Each day I find myself being more and more OK with the thought of not being with him anymore and that I am worried that it will get to the point where I get fed up. As much as I feel I have done so many things wrong in our marriage, which I am completely aware of now and remorseful for, I do know that there were so many things that I did positively for our relationship - unfortunately I don't think he sees any of that now. But I know that I have alot to offer even through my faults and I am wondering if I will get to a point where I feel I deserve more than this.

[Not Much Left]

Sorry I misread that.
On the Love side of things, yes those go away when no one is working at it which is why love is a verb, not a noun.

One thing I say over and over, if YOU change, the R HAS to change. Not saying it will work, but there is something to be said for "killing w/ kindness". Dont have to be falling all over someone, but as a friend would do. How can you be mad at someone for being super nice to you? A WAS can of course because it is unnatural behavior from the LBS, but eventually, if it goes on long enough, it HAS to have a positive reaction and if nothing else the R will change, period.

Make sense?

[not an ex yet]

Savingus:
I was just reading through your posts here and cannot believe how similar our situations are!! It is almost scary. The only major difference is that my H and I have two children, and unfortunately he did move out in June.
My H and I were short with each other at times and bickered quite a bit but I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined that he was that uhapppy. I too knew that there were things that bothered him but not to the point of ending our relationship. He has given me the "too little too late" speech and is sometimes very rude when I try to make small talk. I try to just ignore it and tell myself that he is only making himself miserable by acting like that b/c like you said, who gets annoyed by someone talking about the weather? It is silly. After he moved out he said that he didn't know if he could come back b/c he was afraid that after a few months I would just go back to the way things were and that all these changes I have made are just to get him back, so basically he said he wasn't buying it that I could change. My H also said that I cry too much and he gets tired of it and doesn't talk to me about things b/c he knows I will cry. I feel the same way as you...that is just the way I am, deal with it! My H was also unhappy that I didn't initiate sex...so unlike your situation, I started initiating it all the time. I still do when we are together. I think that is one thing that he has noticed (well, obviously) and has actually been a positive thing for us but every situation is different so I would say that is your call whether it will make things better or worse.
Sorry, I'm not trying to take over your thread, but I just couldn't believe how many similarities we have.
Good luck. Keep posting, it looks like you are hanging in there and getting some great advice here.

[savingus77]

CVA - yes that does totally make sense. That is one of my goals throughout this whole process is just to make sure that I be the best person I can be & to show him everyday how I hear everything that he has said and how I have changed the things that I could change. That is the only way I feel as though I will be able to look back at this situation and not have regrets as to how I have handled it. I also think whether or not he even realizes how well I am handling this right now - at some point in the future he will realize that I accepted the way he was feeling, that I agreed with my areas of weakness, that I did everything I could to try to change those things and fight for our marriage, and that I did not argue with him, say mean things back to him or get defensive with him.

Not an ex yet - No worries - hijack away - that is what is so great about these boards is sharing experiences. It is interesting how our stories are so similar - I will check for your threads. Where is your husband living? Do you go on dates with him? Is that when you are able to initiate? We are not even at a point where we are touching etc. so I could not imagine him being OK with me trying to initiate that right now - I think he would get angry. Maybe if I got him really drunk (have though about that) - but then it wouldn't work anyway

Whatsyourpoint - I see what you are saying about "whose needs are being met". I have learned that I am very good at focusing on my own!!! Too good! I need to learn better on focusing on his as well and learning exactly what they are.

I have my 2nd therapy appt tonight with the new therapist. Actually looking forward to it...

[not an ex yet]

H got an apartment not far from our house. He was able to work it out through a friend who works at the complex that he doesn't have to pay rent, he just helps with the maintenance and up keep at the complex. So as hard as it is, at least we don't have the extra financial pressure, he still gives me the same amount of his pay that he always did.
I tried to be there and be "helpful" on the day he moved out. At first I didn't handle it very well but once I calmed down and accepted that he was still going no matter what I did, I was glad I was there. I had moments of breaking down and crying, then I would pull it together and be fine. He said I was making him feel guilty and my only response was, "gee, I'm sorry! By all means let me make this as easy on YOU as possible!" He didn't say anything to that. He was very affectionate and believe it or not we had a nice time together that day. He even came home that night and spent the night with me. The hard part was the next day when he actually stayed there (at his apt).
Anyway, I am getting off track again. We have gone out together a few times when the kids where with grandparents, and he has either stayed at home or I have stayed with him at his apartment. Since we have kids though we sometimes spend time together as a family on weekends and when the kids go down for a nap we have some alone time where we have "napped" together.
My thread is under Need help...have I already blown it with H?
Good luck with the new therapist, let us know how it goes!