I can see why I need QT as my LL. I said yesterday on hairdog's thread that it has to do with my mother. Are you suggesting I need to do something about it or that there's a problem with it? And why does cac need PT as his LL?
I’m only suggesting that some common ground needs to be found to meet both our your needs. If QT is uncomfortable for CAC, then asking him to deal with it so you can be comfortable may not seem fair to him. But he may be able to deal with some lesser amount, knowing that you are having to deal with provide him PT. Since you two are in a sort of power struggle, I think it important that you both feel like you are sacrificing equally.
I honestly believe that I've made the bulk of the LL accommodations over the last few months. And you're right--doing so can make one resentful. Why is it my task to find a way to accept another LL?
Do you want the marriage to work or not? I’m not saying to drop your favorite LL, but to take some of the pressure off him until he is more comfortable with QT. Give him the chance to show you he cares in his own way, but still trying to give you some QT.
What's wrong with some talk and some sex? Isn't that an equitable compromise? IMO, we've had more sex than talk over the last few months.
I think that sounds like a reasonable compromise. What does he think? Does he know you feel this way?
He isn't showing any desire now. It's been nearly 2 weeks since our last encounter, so now it will be up to me to break the fast and initiate. If I don't initiate now, he won't likely. This is usually the way it goes for us. If we have more frequent encounters he will show desire, but he still rarely initiates.
Chuck has some MAJOR denial and issues to work through. He is more like an automaton than a feeling human. He has completely shut down emotionally, instead using intellect to rationalize the world, all to protect himself from his emotions. He can’t see what he can’t see. Each baby step is scary and causes him to feel an emotion. I bet a lot of what he may be feeling is anger, not at you per se, but anger at having to feel those mushy emotions, anger at having to go through this whole ordeal instead of just leading a peaceful, unemotional life. But as I recall, it was he would came on this board complaining of that unemotional, sexless life. So know he is tuck and doesn’t know where to go. He has painted himself into a corner. He asked for sex, now he’s got it. He just didn’t count on all the other “stuff” that comes with it.
And I feel uncomfortable doing it, but I do it. I do feel differently about sex now. I think about it more often and desire it more often than I used to, in spite of not feeling particularly loved in my LL.
I think this is a huge step for you. It is a long way from where you were not long ago. Change is uncomfortable. Just stick with it. Once Chuck can give you some validation, it suddenly won’t seem so uncomfortable anymore. So Chuck, are you listening?
When am I going to get there? I don't know. Because I feel like I'm doing most or all of the "work," I'm feeling a bit like the mother instead of the wife or partner. There has been very little partnership in fixing our marriage problems, as I see it.
I think that Chuck is well aware of your changes and your growth. Right now that growth is enough to make him uncomfortable, but not enough to panic him that you have grown to the point of not needing to depend on him. When you get to that stage, he might panic and then try to catch up to your growth. If he is as smart as he claims, he will move forward before it gets that far.
I believe that cac still thinks that most of the problems with our R are mine.
Makes sense. He has been locked into victim thinking for a long time.
If this board came with sounds, you'd be hearing that "wrong answer" buzzer right now. I believe I am vulnerable. I believe that I wear my vulnerability on my sleeve, at least with him. I have told cac my fears and my issues and my concerns ad nauseum. Ask him. He doesn't like to hear it. Anything but that. It makes him very uncomfortable.
OK, I hear you. Maybe that is not resonating with him because he has such a hard time empathizing, in turn because he can’t feel. I am sure it makes him uncomfortable. That’s what rattling the cage is supposed to do. Maybe with a little more discomfort he will get up and move to a new position. Who knows if it will be better or worse, but at least it will be change. A smart guy like him should figure out quickly which spots are not the ones to lie down on.
I've written about cac's smoking and how it bothers me.
IMO, he needs to quit smoking, period, but that’s your call.
I don't see this as an option, if he expects sex every time he comes to bed showered. This makes me feel pressured to perform. So he only showers when he thinks we will have sex, which really means missed opportunities for one thing leading to another.
I’m a little confused with what you’re saying. On one had you say you don’t want sex every night, so he apparently doesn’t see the need to shower every night, only those nights when he wants sex, meaning the nights he doesn’t shower gives you a break from sex, right? But then you really do want him to shower every night, but not always want sex, but to cuddle some times. I with you so far….. but then you say his not showering, which could be his way of taking the pressure off of you, is creating missed opportunities for sex. Do I have that right? So which is it, do you want him to always shower to leave open the possibility for sex? But I thought that would put too much pressure on you to perform.
Another confusing thing is how is he to know when you want sex and when you don’t? For him to expect sex every night pressures you too much. But you want him to shower each night anyway. If he does this, which nights is he to initiate and which nights is he to cuddle? If he doesn’t know, then should he just assume cuddling each night, to take the pressure off you, and leave it up to you to decide which nights are for sex? But wouldn’t that mean you have to initiate, and wouldn’t that take away the appearance of desire you want to see in him? Am I correct in getting the impression that you are not sure what you want? That indecision is poison for a victim. Maybe its no wonder he prefers to just go back into his cave.
Another issue is leaving sex for the last thing at night.
I think this is avoidance on his part. It is something he needs to work on and desensitize himself to the discomfort of initiating and being assertive. I think Chuck needs to see the inconsistency of his anger and sometimes aggressiveness when he is confronted with his issues and he feels the need to defend himself like a man, and the timidity he displays when he tries to avoid responsibility for initiating sex. The two actions are at odds with one another.
I think that not allowing yourself to be vulnerable could be trigger CAC's abandonment issues (just a guess).
Can you explain this?
One of the biggest tasks in recovery is identifying and understanding the dynamic you two are locked in. You push his buttons and he pushes yours. You compliment each other in this way. My comment was a guess on my part that as the victim, Chuck is quick to go into self pity mode and pull back into his shell. That is a defensive tactic to protect himself against something. I think victims generally want to be rescued, which means they feel abandoned.
To not feel this, they need some kind of connection. Chuck has blocked his emotions and so does not want to reach out (and even claims he does not know how, though I think he really does). Hearing your vulnerability, your pain, knowing you are chasing him, gives him this connection. It empowers him in a way he cannot or will not do himself. When you fail to do this, he feels abandoned again.
I think part of your frustration is in always chasing. That is in part a boundary issue and a FOO issue for you. Perhaps a little less chase might help? At one time he seemed to be the on doing the chasing.
Chuck, what you need to understand is that if you want your wife to chase you, then you are a fool to run away when she does. And when you want someone to rescue you, you need to have enough self esteem and confidence to accept the hand of someone reaching out to do so, rather than despise the person because of the implication that you are weak and need to be rescued in the first place. But it is you that created this catch 22, not the person trying to help you. This is where I think you need to grow up and ask yourself if you really know what it is that you want?
