I just don't understand the grow up part. Grow up to what?
Grow up to being a responsible MAN.
Does wanting a fulfilling sex life make me childlike?
NO. It's not what you want that makes you childlike. It's the WAY you want and your attitude with wanting that comes across as childlike IMO. You and everyone else are allowed to "want what you want." However what you are not "allowed" to do when you don't get what you want is to name call, get resentful, blame others, pity yourself, manipulate, throw tantrums, throw things, hit your brother Oops I was giving you the same speech Raven and I give his daughter when she doesn't get what she wants. That's what I mean by childlike reaction to not getting what you want.
It almost sounds like your saying that grown men don't need sex very often.
No she was not saying that at all.
If I need to grow up, what would indicate that I have grown up?
When you recognize that your wife actually needs empathy from you and needs a protector. When you decide to become responsible for how you react to not getting what you want. When you decide not to call your wife names (frigid or MOM mode), and recognize that she is a human being with faults and struggles like everyone else. When you own up to your faults within the marriage. ETC.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I think a lot of the messages here get lost in the frustration of the poster... frustration with your passive aggressive, victim thinking and refusal to accept your own power to change your sitch. When people start saying that you can make yourself happy, I can see how the other things they say get lost.
I agree with you that if you want lots of sex to make you happy, then that is fine. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing else will substitute and nothing else will really make you happy. I think people need to stop telling you what you like or don't like, need or don't need.
The frustration with you is that you focus on what you want/need without any ownership of what it takes to get there. It's almost like you can't differentiate between the journey and the destination. You seem to mix the two up. If you want to be happy and have lots of sex (the destination) then you will have to do certain things and make certain changes (the journey). Can you understand that?
You say that if someone has a way to create desire in your wife, you would do it in a heartbeat, but each time a suggestion is made, you just ignore it. I think you are actually quite content in your situation and just want to complain because if it was so uncomfortable and unbearable, the changes suggested would be easier for you than continuing to endure your low desire wife.
You've seen the history of Mojo's marraige and her ex. How is it you differ from him? And don't bring up the difference in desire between Mojo and your wife. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Mojo's ex would sit and complain about EVERYTHING and do nothing to bring about any changes. As we have seen, he is scared of just about everything, has no ability to assert himself at home or in the office, and blames everyone else for his unhappiness. He is the ultimate victim. How do you differ from this and why should we think there is any hope for you?
I think people need to stop telling you what you like or don't like, need or don't need.
Cobra, I don't think any of us have ever told Cemar to not WANT, LIKE or NEED sex. We have only tried to open his eyes to looking at what might actually GET him sex. He just does not like the fact that it might take him having to take on responsibility and work for getting sex. He would rather point the finger at his wife and call her names for not giving it to him NOW.
Otherwise great post. And you are spot on about the frustration many of us feel
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I have seen several posts by people telling him that he can make himself happy by accepting his sitch and learning to find what grains of happiness he can be GAL. That is not validating his needs, which is exactly the same message he gets from his wife. so he shuts down to your entire message.
I am learning that the value of this forum is not just the information posted, but the practice you can get on how to approach a person and explain you position, on how to validate another or not, on how to push and issue or not, on how to confront or not, etc. Not validating a person who wears industrial sized, super thick filters is counterproductive to getting your message across and counter productive to the lessons and practice you could otherwise gain here.
I agree with what you and everyone else is trying to do though.
You've seen the history of Mojo's marraige and her ex. How is it you differ from him? And don't bring up the difference in desire between Mojo and your wife. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Mojo's ex would sit and complain about EVERYTHING and do nothing to bring about any changes. As we have seen, he is scared of just about everything, has no ability to assert himself at home or in the office, and blames everyone else for his unhappiness. He is the ultimate victim. How do you differ from this and why should we think there is any hope for you?
Actually, I think Cemar could be the unfortunate child of my dysfunctional marriage since he has half of my bad traits and half of my 2bx's. Poor kid.
Cemar, It is good to be childlike and vulnerable in a relationship. It is bad to be childish and weak. Here's how you can tell the difference between these two states of being. When you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable you will feel fear that you will have to be brave enough to overcome yourself. When you are allowing yourself to be weak you will feel fear that you will feel your partner needs to help you overcome. You are vulnerable when you take off the training wheels. You will be weak until you do.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am not interested in getting sex. I am interested in making love. Huge difference. I can already get sex. I am not sure it is even possible to ML with a LD spouse.
I am not interested in getting sex. I am interested in making love. Huge difference. I can already get sex.
I apologize for not using the right words. What I meant to write was:
I don't think any of us have ever told Cemar to not WANT, LIKE or NEED Making love or getting desired. We have only tried to open his eyes to looking at what might actually GET him desired by his wife so they can Make love. He just does not like the fact that it might take him having to take on responsibility and work for getting desired by his wife. He would rather point the finger at his wife and call her names for not desiring him and making love to him NOW.
You should also carefully read Mojo's last paragraph in her post to you. She really captured the difference between vulnerability (which is "good" and attractive) and childishness/weakness (which is unhealthy and therefore not attractive).
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Cemar, Here's something I am curious about. Other than making love/desire, how does your wife react to you or treat you? Does she seem to like you or is she "mean" to you? Is she controlling? Does she do nice things for you? if you asked her for your favorite meal, how would she react? Does she do your laundry? Does she run errands for you?
Really I am just trying to get a sense of the rest of your life with her.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I am not interested in getting sex. I am interested in making love. Huge difference. I can already get sex. I am not sure it is even possible to ML with a LD spouse.
What's the difference between the sex you get and the making love you want?
What's the difference between the sex you get and the making love you want?
Martelo, I am going to hazard a guess to see if I do understand Cemar. I think the difference is that sex is his wife merely doing it for him and not because she wants to do it and especially not because she desires him. Making Love would be her initiating or at least wanting him to initiate. it would also include everything on his previous list that creates intimacy.
Which then I guess this is the question, does Cemar believe his wife loves him??? Does he love her??
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
