I'm sure it makes your heart pound to think of the minefield you have to walk thru between now and then but you can do it. Simply tell her that you need your time to yourself just as much as anyone does, regardless of the fact that you have kids from a previous marriage and are a recovering financial dunce. And leave it at that. Stuff like this just makes her nervous because it triggers all sorts of abandonment fears that her dad set off, so try to keep that in mind and retain your empathy.
Yeah, but I have to tell you, the energy required to shift into "empathy" instead of "defensive" or "rage" mode is huge. Especially when "empathy" doesn't necessarily come naturally or easy to me these days. But I'll do my best, of course.
Originally Posted By: honeypott
Btw, are you roasting today or what?
Yeah, the walk from my car to the building this morning at 6:15am gave me the sweats - it was already 85. The bank clock says 95 right now, and the heat index is 100. I am NOT looking forward to getting into my Chevy mini-oven in about 20 minutes.
Cobra, Of course he should take a firm stand and hold his ground. I'm not telling him to sneak out in the middle of the night.
Clearly if she decides to total the car or break her leg right before the trip, he will have to cancel even if the ticket is non-refundable.
But if she schedules something marginally important ("Oh was THAT the day you were going? I distinctly remember you telling me it was the week before/after."), like having the trees trimmed, or having a party for one of the kids, he can say, "Sorry, sweetheart, the tickets are non-refundable. You go ahead without me."
The nonrefundable ticket is just a little insurance.
Kett makes a very good point. If Mrs. HD's whole premise is that you are selfish, and she has not been able to deter you so far from taking the trip, then she has to up the stakes. She has to create a situation such that if-- in the face of whatever-it-is-- you still decide to go, you will prove that you are selfish.
The nonrefundable ticket will not change the fact that you are the most selfish s.o.b. on the face of the earth, but it might make her say, "Well, then go so you don't waste the money! But I won't forget this for a long, long time!" Anyway, at least you will get to go.
I DO NOT see her changing her mind and deciding it is okay for you to go with no adverse consequences. You WILL be punished.
If Mrs. HD's whole premise is that you are selfish, and she has not been able to deter you so far from taking the trip, then she has to up the stakes. She has to create a situation such that if-- in the face of whatever-it-is-- you still decide to go, you will prove that you are selfish.
MrsHD can accuse HD of anything she wants, and will probably do so. Whether he goes or not, or whether the tickets are non-refundable or not, will not change that. Furthermore, she can only up the stakes if he is willing to play that game. Just what is it that she is going to do? Cut him off from sex? Take away control of the finances? Come on, there is NOTHING she can do to him that she hasn't already done.
I agree that she will not change her mind, and that she will not want him to go. I think it is uncertain whether she will sabotage his trip, but I think she will accuse him, as you say. But I believe it is VERY IMPORTANT for her to make those accusations, for she will paint herself into a corner. HD needs to learn how to work her accusations against her, and the way to do that is by being direct and honest, about his feelings and hers, while maintaining steady and consistent boundaries.
That conversation Lou posted in italics on page 6 is a good example of how this should go. Notice how the wife tries to deflect the focus off her time and time again and turn it around on the H. He consistently brings it back to his desire for her, a fact she never refutes. She wants his desire because it comforts her, but she cannot bring herself to openly admit to that. She is on the hot seat and he does not let her off. This is a way to rattle her cage. It does not have to be confrontational or argumentative, but there needs to be a certain level of assertiveness to it. I suggest everyone study the flow of the conversation very carefully. I have used very similar methods on my wife and it is quite effective.
Hairdog, don't squander time thinking what might go wrong and cause your W to need you so much you can't go.
LOL, the couple hundred $$$, chump change.
Had another vet trip today. $228.00 because the bird wasn't eating his bird food, but was eating fruit. Last week $195.00 for a cyst removal on a dog. Two weeks before that ~$175.00 because another dog had split toe-nails. Two months ago, annual physical for 3 dogs, heart-worm test and preventive medication, and meds for a dog losing it's eye sight, another $325.00. Then there is the extra treats so 3 dogs take their medication, probably another $10 a week.
Add in doggie teeth cleaning treats at about $20.00 a month. OOps, I forgot dog food and breath mints. What is another$50.00/$75.00
The there are the 3 cats....................................?
So ~$200.00 even $300.00 is no big deal for a week-end trip..
I bet it isn't about the $$$ to Ms. HD if all of the layers were peeled away. Talking about the money is letting the smoke and mirrors are get in the way of the real issue.
1.She doesn't want you to have fun. If you wouldn’t have screwed up your first M, she wouldn’t have to bail you out of some poor financial decisions you made in the past. 2.She doesn't have much fun so you shouldn't. 3.She thinks you should have your nose to the grind stone to pay more for “your” kids. 4.It wasn't her idea so it is a bad idea. (BB) 5.something else.
I don't know if the tickets will be non-refundable or not, but, given that they'll probably be the cheapest ones I can find, it's likely they will be. I'm definitely trying to think of this in Corri/Martelo terms: don't make a big deal about it, and, if anything happens, I can handle it. The "what's she gonna do, cut me off?" self-talk has helped me through many situations before, usually with a chuckle, so I'm not that worried.
Originally Posted By: Kettricken
I think empathy gets a bit easier when you commit yourself to a course of empathy *without* surrender.
I think that's what I'm doing, by talking with her about her feelings, but doing so with a stated purpose of trying to make this trip "okay" for both of us. Even if she is not "okay" with it, and I end up going, at least I tried to talk with her about it. Is this the "empathy without surrender" you're talking about? If not, some examples would be helpful to me.
Cobra: the dialog that Lou posted between the recovering NG and the wife had some familiar rings to it. I've used the "your loss" technique, and, while it might help soothe me, it does not change the outcome. The rest of the conversation seemed kind of stilted and artificial. Maybe the "bringing it back to his desire for her" is something I could work at a little better in the situation of "pillow talk", but generally, Ms.Hdog seems to ignore this kind of talk. She either doesn't respond or changes the subject.
I'm actually considering the Nice Guy Breaking Free Exercise #39:
Quote:
Consider going on a sexual moratorium. COnsciously refrain from sex for a predetermined period of time. No matter what your sexual situation is, it can be a powerful learning experience. Most guys initially resist the idea, but once they make the decision to do it, they find it to be a very positive experience. A sexual moratorium can have many benefits: -Helps break dysfunction cycles -Eliminate pursuing and distancing -Allows the Nice Guy to see that he can live without sex. -Releases resentment -Helps the NG realize that no one else but him holds the key to his sexual experience. -Helps the NG see how he settles for bad sex -Eliminates fear that the NG's partner can withhold sex or approval. -Helps the NG pay attention to the meaning of sexual impulses: whenever the NG feels the impulse to be sexual, he can automatically ask himself, "Why am I feeling sexual?" -Helps break addictive patterns by eliminating compulsive masturbation, pornography, and other addictive behaviors -Helps the NG begin to address feelings he has been avoiding with sex. Before beginning a sexual moratorium, discuss it with your partner. It helps to set a specific time. I suggest three to six months. It can be done. Decide on the parameters of the moratorium. Once you have begun, pay attention to slips and sabotaging behaviors, from both you and your partner. Remember, it is a learning experience. You don't have to do it perfectly.
So many of the benefits Glover lists could apply to me. Funny thing: I was thinking about this and thought, "oh, wait. I don't want to do this until after my birthday." And then I thought, "okay, Einstein...when was the last time that you had sex on or near your birthday?" Frankly, the biggest hurdle I see in this has to do with giving up MB, which has always been a physical and emotional release for me. The biggest benefit I see is breaking the dysfunction cycle, which is tied closely to the pursuing and distancing I do with my W.
I've used the "your loss" technique, and, while it might help soothe me, it does not change the outcome. The rest of the conversation seemed kind of stilted and artificial. Maybe the "bringing it back to his desire for her" is something I could work at a little better in the situation of "pillow talk", but generally, Ms.Hdog seems to ignore this kind of talk. She either doesn't respond or changes the subject.
The “your loss” technique does not work with my wife either. A person needs to feel s/he deserves something before s/he feels the loss of it. That is one of my wife’s problems. She complains of not getting enough validation, but when she does get it she sabotages it.
The part of the conversation I like was how the H stayed on target and did not allow the W to deflect, and she tried to do so many times. Think back to how often your W is able to deflect you in your talks. Just the other day you got upset with her on the phone, right? That was a successful deflection by her. She goaded you and you turned into the “bad” guy which justified her throwing up her walls and reinforcing her resentment toward you. This is the same strategy that Lil warned about, that your W might try to create some “emergency” to sabotage your trip. When you hold your ground and go anyway, you will be the “bad” guy for abandoning her in her time of need and she will be able to hold that over you for a long time. Prepare for this but do not change your plans.
your W might try to create some “emergency” to sabotage your trip. When you hold your ground and go anyway, you will be the “bad” guy for abandoning her in her time of need
It depends on how big an emergency she creates... small, medium, large, or life-threatening...
