Plank/WAW, thread 2

[Heimlich]

Anything that happens on the positive side is a suprise and its all upside from that angle!

CVA, that's an excellent way to look at it. Thanks.

WAW and Steel, muchos gracias for the support.

BD

[Heimlich]

Posting the castle analogy for my own continued sanity. Thanks to Nomo for writing it down:

My DB Coach Chuck told me about this and I love it, and have shared it with a number of you, but thought I would post it for those of you who haven't heard it (mainly newbies).

Ok. Here's the idea. The WAS wants away from you, the LBS. They need time and space. They have put up these huge walls because the are so hurt by all the awful things you, the LBS, did. (Just accept that this is true. Defending yourself, and playing the blame game won't help you save your M. Remember, this is the WAS's perspective.) So, it's like they are in a castle. Huge walls; impenetrable. No matter how hard you try to tear down the castle walls or break in (this is us begging, pleading, crying, chasing, reasoning, arguing, etc.), you can't do it. In fact, it strengthens there resolve. There is no way they are going to open the door to let this sad, pathetic or threatneing person in. All you can do is focus on you, and GAL. You have to "let them go." Think of it as letting them go to the castle really, not necessarily away forever. Meanwhile, by focusing on you (what will make you happy, what changes you want to make in you) and GALing, and actually being as happy, positive, upbeat, etc. as you can (fake it until you make it), it is like you are setting up a picnic. A wonderful picnic! And because 99% of the time the WAS is actually noticing what you are doing (even if it doesn't seem like it, and despite their denials or acting to the contrary), it is like you set your glorious picnic up right outside the castle walls. Well, eventually (and much too long for most of us, so we have to be patient, patient, patient and keep at the picnic), the WAS is curious. They venture closer and closer, to check things out. They think, "that looks like fun" or "why is s/he so happy?" But they are VERY skittish. If we jump up and start moving toward them (or even if we act just too enthusiastic that they are peaking out of the castle), they get frightened and run back in. And slam the door! We just have to keep eating that cheese and sipping that wine. Or Fried Chicken and Watermelon. Take your pick. Eventually, if you have a chance (and I believe almost all of us do), the WAS will come even closer, and will finally sit down for a bit. And then, all of a sudden, for no good reason (because they are having fun and you are playing it cool and not chasing), the WAS still freaks out and runs back to the castle. It's like they remember they have walked away, and they wonder why they are even at the picnic! "What was I thinking? I thought I had decided to leave this person behind!" Now, if you chase them back to the castle (or, gasp, pound on the door), they will stay in the castle even longer. But if you just stay at your picnic, eventually the WAS will wander back out again. And each time, they will stay a little longer, and be gone for less time. And then, after a lot of halting progress (two steps forward, one step back), success!! They re-invest in the M. Make sense? That's the idea any way, and for most of us I believe it's the best shot.

Hope it helps,
Nomo

[Heimlich]

Posting the castle analogy for myself and continued sanity. Thanks to Nomo for writing it out.

My DB Coach Chuck told me about this and I love it, and have shared it with a number of you, but thought I would post it for those of you who haven't heard it (mainly newbies).

Ok. Here's the idea. The WAS wants away from you, the LBS. They need time and space. They have put up these huge walls because the are so hurt by all the awful things you, the LBS, did. (Just accept that this is true. Defending yourself, and playing the blame game won't help you save your M. Remember, this is the WAS's perspective.) So, it's like they are in a castle. Huge walls; impenetrable. No matter how hard you try to tear down the castle walls or break in (this is us begging, pleading, crying, chasing, reasoning, arguing, etc.), you can't do it. In fact, it strengthens there resolve. There is no way they are going to open the door to let this sad, pathetic or threatneing person in. All you can do is focus on you, and GAL. You have to "let them go." Think of it as letting them go to the castle really, not necessarily away forever. Meanwhile, by focusing on you (what will make you happy, what changes you want to make in you) and GALing, and actually being as happy, positive, upbeat, etc. as you can (fake it until you make it), it is like you are setting up a picnic. A wonderful picnic! And because 99% of the time the WAS is actually noticing what you are doing (even if it doesn't seem like it, and despite their denials or acting to the contrary), it is like you set your glorious picnic up right outside the castle walls. Well, eventually (and much too long for most of us, so we have to be patient, patient, patient and keep at the picnic), the WAS is curious. They venture closer and closer, to check things out. They think, "that looks like fun" or "why is s/he so happy?" But they are VERY skittish. If we jump up and start moving toward them (or even if we act just too enthusiastic that they are peaking out of the castle), they get frightened and run back in. And slam the door! We just have to keep eating that cheese and sipping that wine. Or Fried Chicken and Watermelon. Take your pick. Eventually, if you have a chance (and I believe almost all of us do), the WAS will come even closer, and will finally sit down for a bit. And then, all of a sudden, for no good reason (because they are having fun and you are playing it cool and not chasing), the WAS still freaks out and runs back to the castle. It's like they remember they have walked away, and they wonder why they are even at the picnic! "What was I thinking? I thought I had decided to leave this person behind!" Now, if you chase them back to the castle (or, gasp, pound on the door), they will stay in the castle even longer. But if you just stay at your picnic, eventually the WAS will wander back out again. And each time, they will stay a little longer, and be gone for less time. And then, after a lot of halting progress (two steps forward, one step back), success!! They re-invest in the M. Make sense? That's the idea any way, and for most of us I believe it's the best shot.

Hope it helps,
Nomo

[Heimlich]

Just had a quick call with my wife. Our bank statements came in today and she had take 3/4 of our savings account out and placed it in a new savings account. I had a feeling why she did this, and I was right, but I was still a little steamed. So I called.

I noticed that you took XX dollars and opened a new savings account. That was tremendously disrespectul and I'd like to hear why you did it. She was very cold and curt.

W: I'll tell you when I get home from work.
Me: Fine. But I'd like you to know that's pretty hurtful.

A few more moments of innefectual back and forth and I said, "Fine" and hung up on her. She called back about 20 seconds later.

W: I'm not trying to take the money.
Me: I know that you're not out to screw me over with money. I don't care about that. I've been poor before. I could give a [censored] about the money. What hurts is that you would take our money and do something with it without asking me.
W: I did it because I start thinking about all of the negatives and I didn't know how you'd react when you were home by yourself. I just keep thinking things through to the worst possible conclusion. Would you be bitter? Would you take all of the money or go on a spending spree? Would you pick me up from the airport? Would you have the house cleaned out when I got back? That's just the way I think and I was protecting myself and the girls.

Me: I know that's how you think. That's been a problem, you think about things, but don't let me know what's goign on in your head. In the last year, have I acted in any way other than showing you that I'm still in love with you and want to be married to you?

W: No

Me: It's tremendously hurtful that you would think that I would do those things to you. I want to protect our girls too. I would not and will not ever hurt you. I've only lost myself with you once and I'll regret that to the day that I die, but I want you to know that this isn't about the money, but about how hurtful it is that you would think that about me.

W: That's just the way I think. Trying to protect the girls and myself.

Me: Again, I'll never hurt you. I still love you, but I want you to be happy. It's just that this hurt me tremendously that you would think that. Put yourself in my shoes, how would you feel?

W: I know. I apologize, but I just didn't know how you'd react to being by yourself.

Then she said something about talking later and we told each other goodbye.

Need some advice:
If we talk later, I'd like to ask her if one of the reasons she's holding back is that she's spun out the worst case scenario in her mind that we'll try to get our M back together and I'll end up telling her no.

Good or bad to bring up?

BD

[PMA_Baby!]

Just see what kind of mood she's in. Remember to, like you've told me a bunch of times, validate what she's saying/feeling. "I understand that you felt that you were just protecting yourself and the girls, but you can see why it upset me right?"

Sounds like you handled it great. Keep up the good work.

BM07

[Heimlich]

BM07,

Thanks. I'll wait and see if she brings it up later this evening.

I sympathized, but didn't really validate -- same thing, maybe? I was/am very upset that she would think that about me. One thing I've noticed over the years is that she always respected my confidence. For this, I was not prepared to let it slide. It was hurtful and unfair, and she really needed to hear that. This is kind of a 180. I've been somewhat walking on eggshells around her and her feelings (and taking a lot of her darts over the past few years without too much response on my part) and I needed to show her a little of the old fire/self confidence.

I did raise my voice in the initial call, but was calm when she called back, stressing how much this had hurt me. Another thing that I did wrong in our R was always trying to be the strong one and not showing her when I hurt. This hurt and I let her know.

BD

[SunnySeason]

Hi H,

I sympathized, but didn't really validate -- same thing, maybe?

Yes, I think it serves the main purpose. You didn't argue, which is what most people who don't have access to DB skills do.

This is kind of a 180. I've been somewhat walking on eggshells around her and her feelings (and taking a lot of her darts over the past few years without too much response on my part) and I needed to show her a little of the old fire/self confidence.

Also good, they say the rules are guidelines to be used for your paticular sitch & you adapted it to yours.

Looks like you really did very well.

I would let her sit with it before bringing up anything else. That castle thing, ya know


Sunny

[Not Much Left]

H
With every interaction, just keep getting better, stronger and faster (could not think of anything witty). You know what I mean, no one, not even a crazed LBS trying to change REALLY changes overnight, it is a process which our WAS has to see over time to even consider a new R with us.

You did fine.
C

[Heimlich]

Thanks Sunny and CVA

I've changed my mental attitude and I am a lot happier, less tense, funnier -- more like my old self used to be. I can see her expecting me to be defensive about things that she says that would have gotten a negative response from me even 4 months ago and just want to kick myself in the buttocks for being a bit of an a$$. Working on my major bad habit -- procrastination (which this board DOES NOT help with )

just keep getting better, stronger and faster

Amen, CVA. What's that from the six million dollar man, "We can rebuild him."

Other thing I wanted to post was the Desiderata. Have a framed copy that I used to have on my wall and read everday. Dug it out of the closet and hung it up. These really are words of wisdom.

Max Ehrmann


Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.


Max Ehrmann, Desiderata, Copyright 1952

[dlt1]

Good for you! Stand up for your feelings. Don't regret that. Cool and confident is definitley a good thing. Let her sit with it.

Need some advice:
If we talk later, I'd like to ask her if one of the reasons she's holding back is that she's spun out the worst case scenario in her mind that we'll try to get our M back together and I'll end up telling her no.
H I like asking her, but try a little different approach. Assume thsi is the case and say something more like:
"I understand the huge risk you would be taking to work on our M with me. After the pain I have caused, this is no small favor I am asking for you to allow yourself to be vulnerable to that again. I am committed to you, and understand why you would be hesitant. I'm here for you."
You don't always have to ask a question to get an answer. I think thsi approach would be a way to validate her feelings. She'll tell you if you're wrong! Just my opinion here. Wish I coudl say that it is teh best approach.
Wishing you luck,