Madonna/Whore Complex (part 7)

[Heywyre]

Yes we are seeing one in the LM and he is VERY good but, no kidding, its ROUGH!!

I am hoping we can stick it out

[Greeneyedlass]

Heywyre,

Please try to remember when these blow-ups happen (because they will now that things are going to beome more intense in therapy) that it is going to get rougher right now before it gets better...remind yourself of that. He's going to resist that ST pushing to get at the real issues, he's going to resist, defelect, delay and camoflage as best as he can...but this ST isn't going to let him.

You two made it through this one, just KEEP TALKING.

[Heywyre]

Thanks GEL - your encouragement and support is greatly appreciated

Hey Martelo - where in the LM are you? I have some questions for you, if you don't mind ... did you find the EFT helped at all? How many sessions of it did you go to? Apparently EFT is VERY intense but the results are over a relatively short period of time (8-12 sessions). We have already gone through the initial "searching" period, so to speak, with our regular sessions so we cut to the chase yesterday, eliminating the usual first 3-4 sessions

The guy we are going to is in Langley but I know there is supposed to be a pretty good one in Vancouver

[Martelo]

For myself hearing and "getting" how much my wife loved and truly cared for me in such a deep way helped, understanding that even though we not always very sexual that she truly felt so deeply for me was profound. As far a sessions, we went for somewhere about 24 sessions with our ST, who is in Vancouver.

Unlike your guy we we're not told what aproach we were using it seem we moved fairly naturally through a bunch of eclectic approaches. Schnachian hugging till relaxed, voice therapy, EFT and other various approaches were all used but I think the talk therapy was most important for each of us to listen and understand what the other was saying. These things take on a bit of a different feeling when there is a third party there helping guide you along. Our ST was also very compassionate and understanding of both of our separate "stories".

For myself it was important not to consider my wife the patient and myself "along for the ride" I wanted to get to "my stuff" as well, I think it would have been unproductive to be thinking that she was the only one who needed to grow.

One of the things that I found surprising was that as we got "closer" and more intimate was how truly uncomfortable I became. I thought that was her problem that she didn't want to be close, but it was a two way street.

My level of tolerance of intimacy was enforced by a passive escaping and hers was through active avoidance. So we had a perfect little dance set up where we were only going to get so close. I could whine all I wanted about the lack of intimacy but the truth was I couldn't really tolerate very much at that point.

I can't say that there was any magic break though just that we slowly started to heal through the time that we went to therapy and we went from being my wife not being able to tolerate me touching her sexually in any way to having really good sex at least once a week in about 8 months. I think that's pretty amazing and am quite proud of what we both accomplished at times it seemed like we would just take two steps forward and fall back one but in the end it added up.

[Heywyre]

Thanks Martelo for your openness and the valuable information you have provided

Our ST is VERY intuned to both of us too, he can read subtle expressions on my H's face like no other, its incredible at times and he digs deep to the core, which makes H VERY vulnerable and uncomfortable

I too have come to realize that I am not perfect by any stretch, and there is much I have to deal with too. It is definitely NOT a one-way street

We have made a giant leap in that we have come to an agreement that my H needs to express his emotions more and I need to perhaps curtail my neediness a little and then we can meet in the middle somewhere (although he is understanding to the fact that might not happen overnight as the majority of my neediness right now stems from him having the A's as I was not at all needy before)

ST has given us something to think about this week - and to dig deep into our feelings. ST said to get to the point where we are experiencing each other "naturally" and spontaneously we will first have to go outside our comfort zones and be consciously aware of everything we do and this will probably not be very easy for either of us

[Lillieperl]

Heywyre wrote that her H said:

(1) I can't change my personality (not that I was asking him to)

(2) maybe we aren't compatible

(3) maybe we shouldn't be together

(4) maybe I can't give you what you need emotionally

(5) I can't fix what you were lacking in your childhood

(6) maybe you need to fix something inside of you but that has nothing to do with me

You want your H to hear what you are saying. I suggest you spend some time REALLY trying to hear what HE is saying with these statements. I'm not suggesting you share your thoughts with him right away... but go off by yourself, get your journal, and look at each one of these statements. Get out the list of feelings and see how you feel about each one. For a moment, as an experiment, adopt the premise (ONE AT A TIME- not all at once) that each one of them is true? How do you feel?

I do get the impression that a big chunk of this is about fixing him. Now don't YOU get defensive on me. It's one thing to say "well, I know I'm not perfect," and then to rush on to another topic. You know you're not perfect, but you feel you're "good enough," right?

Really look at your part in this. NOT to blame yourself or feel bad, but just because YOUR part is the only part you can change.

Have you gone to Byron Katie's site http://www.thework.com and listened to some of her dialogues with clients? They're real eyeopeners.

Your sitch may not be fixable, BUT you have a great therapist, a husband who (for now) is willing to work-- are you willing to delve as deeply into yourself as you're making him do?

How about the next time you go to the therapist, ask the therapist for this one session to focus totally on YOU, to take your H out of the spotlight, balance the scales a bit, and let him see you in the spotlight?

What would it mean for YOU to go WAAAAY outside your comfort zone? For the moment, stop thinking about HIM and how HE needs to go outside his... what about you?

[Heywyre]

but you feel you're "good enough," right?

Quite frankly, no I don't and that is a problem we are addressing

are you willing to delve as deeply into yourself as you're making him do?

Absolutely !! To expect anything less of myself is hardly fair in a relationship

As for focusing on me, our ST is extremely good at balancing the sessions pretty much equally between the two of us, constantly asking each other what they hear the other person saying etc.

What would it mean for YOU to go WAAAAY outside your comfort zone?

I have been going WAAAAY outside my comfort zone for the last couple of months now, putting my feelings and emotions completely on the table, which the ST is quite pleased with

All in all, I think I am doing a great job, and so does the ST. As much as I know it takes two to tango, if only one is willing to practice, there isn't much point now is there?

On the other hand, I don't know how far H is willing to dig into his emotions. But I do know one thing, I will not settle for the R I have right now (that in itself is going WAAAAY outside my comfort zone)

[OG_Lou]

Lil What would it mean for YOU to go WAAAAY outside your comfort zone? For the moment, stop thinking about HIM and how HE needs to go outside his... what about you?

HW, I see you post what your H isn't doing or what your H might think/feel. I think Lil would like you to post more of "your" feelings/thoughts on the SSM forum. How you feel/think if the world revolved around you, and served your needs and wants before anyone elses needs or wants.

You can do that on the SSM forum but don't have to do all of it in real life.

Heywyre wrote that her H said:

Quote:
(1) I can't change my personality (not that I was asking him to)

(2) maybe we aren't compatible

(3) maybe we shouldn't be together

(4) maybe I can't give you what you need emotionally

(5) I can't fix what you were lacking in your childhood

(6) maybe you need to fix something inside of you but that has nothing to do with me

You might want to start with a list of 6 things you want, maybe or maybe not related to Mr. HW's list. Another thought might be a list of what you want in a R after so many Emotionally Focused Therapy sessions.

Lou

[Lillieperl]

Hey, I apologize for sounding like I'm criticizing you or saying you aren't working hard enough. That's not my point at all. It's just that your H is really squirming and resisting. It might be illuminating to put yourself in a position to really squirm and resist, too... you've already put up with a lot more from him than most people would. Not faulting you... just suggesting you kick it to a new level... accelerate the work on you. Why? Because you "need" it? No, but because you're the only one you CAN work on.

[Heywyre]

Lil - I did not take offence and there is no need to apologize

And, trust me, I have been "squirming" the last couple of weeks. I have dug deeper than I ever have in my own life and admitted a lot of things, in therapy and to my H, regarding my own personal life. There have been some major changes in how I am handling things and maybe that is what is making him squirm and change too