Since I got the "I love you but am not in love with you" bomb last month, I've been lurking here and picked up a lot of advice and support. Also read Divorce Remedy, been working the 180/GAL, and trying my best to eat and sleep and breathe. My first post, so here's the short story...
I've noticed his MLC for almost a year now but let him be. Last 6 months, his behavior has been bad and we've been fighting and I've been sad and suspicious. Since the bomb, he's started to open up and thinks he's in MLC (no, I didn't suggest it). In our many recent talks, he assured me a few times that he's been faithful; the worst thing he says he's done is dance.
As I suspected, he's been lying to me. I snooped today and discovered his notes on "things I know" and "things I don't know". Among these is "I cheated and lied about it" followed by "haven't been able to (or wanted to?) stop myself."
I spotted him writing these notes within the last month. On the other hand, we recently agreed to work on us, have been communicating better than ever, and our first counseling appt. is next week. But now what do I do? Should I admit that I snooped (which I know was WRONG) and confront him? Of course, I want to know everything including whether or not I can forgive him and whether or not this is behind him. Before jumping into reaction, I thought I should quit lurking and get some advice.
So what do ya'll think I should do now? _____ Me 39, H 35 M 5, T 15 No kids Bomb: 6-30-07
You could wait until counseling to see if it comes out. Did he write these things before agreing to to work on m? I personaly would confront him and tell him you're sorry for invading his privacy. I don't think secrets are good. If you dont tell him you will probably keep doing it(btdt).
Me 37 W 37 D21 D17 D12 S8 grandparents 7/07 boy Married 16 yrs last June 07 Bomb dropped 4/07
"Do what you feel in your heart to be right-for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't", Eleanor Roosevelt
Thanks LS. I think he wrote that after agreeing to work on M but I really don't know that for sure. Just realized that H is out of town now and again for part of next week. So unless I squeeze it in on Mon nite, it would have to wait for the Thu app anyway, so I'm apt to just wait and hope that it comes out. Or maybe I bring it up there. Not a good way to start counseling, though, I think. Don't know, never been. Don't really know what to do. Afraid that if I do bring it up, R talks this month will be lost and he'll be angry that I snooped and skip the app altogether.
Exactly where were these notes???...Could it be that maybe his guilt "wants" him to get caught???...any indication if this is someone you know or is it a one night stand...or even out of town???
I can caution you on one thing...don't ask for ANY details...I had a counselor caution me about this...while my imagination went wild I think this was good for US initially...eventually...like about a year after he was home I did ask some questions...H said he didn't really want to talk about it but if I needed it for closure he would ablige...somethings I imagined much worse...some things not...but I am sure had I known these things earlier it would have hindered my ability to forgive...
I would just wait until you see how the counseling goes...see what H wants to talk about...maybe inbetween times you can see the counselor on your own and ask how best to handle this...maybe C could bring it up...maybe offer an "amnesty" night...H can say anything he wants and you promise not to lose your temper or get angry...also, you promise to work on forgiveness if it is needed...or wanted!
I did the amnesty thing with my H in the past when we were having problems and I knew things were going on online...EA...it worked for healing then...and I think at the time I would have been prepared to handle it if there had been a PA...when the PA actually happened I was totally caught off guard!
Lin - Thanks for the advice. Amnesty nite sounds like a great idea. I think I will wait because I really hope he confesses on his own and will talk to the C about it too.
Whether he left them for me to find is 50/50. The 2 pages were buried in the middle of a spiral notebook he kept in his desk drawer. Not exactly out in the open. But it's unlike him to leave anything in the house; he's been so secretive and protective... phone, carkeys, secret email accounts, etc, plus he just asked me 2 weeks ago whether or not I go in his room. If he does want me to discover it, I'm afraid it's because he expects/wants me to leave him.
No indication as to who, how often, still going on, etc. He does have ~monthly business trips, different places. Jan-Jun, he went "out for drinks" nearly every weeknight, sometimes pretty late.
But things have been going pretty well this last month. He's behaving, staying in touch, somewhat affectionate with an ILY every other day or so, initiating R talks.
Snooping can be a killer...but then sometimes it is a an answer you have been praying for...I would have NEVER known about OW had I not snooped...it was important for me to know...I think it was even more important for H that it was exposed...due to childhood issues he got too good at suppressing feelings...and these would come back to haunt him later...I am afraid that he would have seared his conscience so bad that he might have never recovered if he had kept this secret...but it seems anytime he did anything that was really "bad"...he always left a clue...got sloppy...or complacent...and I always was led to "look" at something that normally I wouldn't have done...
The ONLY reason I found out about OW was that I went to visit him at his office...or at least see if he was there...he was...I looked in his car and saw his cell phone....no wonder he didn't answer...I had keys to his car...opened it and took the cell phone out to clear all my calls to him...but noticed there were many many VM's and missed calls...so I started listening...at first I thought the voice I was hearing was my own...I thought I had left the message as it was worded and spoken like me...but "she" used a profanity...and I don't...so I listened more...and more...you see she left about 8 messages for him that night...and he said I called him too much, ha!...a little more investigation and found out he had been calling her and vice versa for months before he left...I never ever suspected an OW...
I think once you KNOW what is going on...you don't need to snoop for more...then it adds to the pain...
impatient...I do hope things go well for you...I hope counseling will help...I know that it didn't do much for H and I in the beginning and when he was ready to come home I had found this place and it helped me handle things correctly...
IMOP I would say to tell him what you found but do not argue or get into a big R talk.
But before you do this you need to decide what you will and won't be able to handle.(create boundries for you). Let him know that you know do not argue, just state the facts. H needs to decide to want to end the A uninfluanced by you but within the boundries that you set.
This holds him accounatable for what he is doing, But by you not arguing you are doing the best DBing and he'll see that.
DO you understand what im'e trying to say?
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Thanks for the advice. I'm still hesitating though. The dbing seems to be working. Things have been going so well, and when he came home tonight from his weekend trip to his brother's, we had a great night. Lots of love. We have been sleeping together, not fighting, R talks every few days, mostly at his suggestion because I try not to initiate.
Not that it's okay, but maybe it was a one-time thing, long ago. I know he's been behaving for about the last month now as I did set some boundaries before/during/after the bomb, and pretty much know where he is all the time.
I'm not sure yet what I want to do or what I can handle. He's off again on a business trip until our first C appt so I'll see how it goes. I know I'll have to deal with this eventually. I may be impatient, but I'm also a big procrastinator!
Things are going good today. It's so nice to have someone to talk to; I haven't told anyone about any of this. So thanks for asking JAK. Sorry in advance for the long story, but we had a big night...
H had a last-minute change and didn't leave town until this morning. At his request, if it was okay with me, we talked for hours last night. I swear he's secretly on this board too. He told me a few things, such as, he's noticed my "180" (yes, that's what he called it). Said he was angry and mixed feeling at first, probably because he was sure I would never change and had been living/planning on that. Still has some mixed feelings but is glad that I'm doing things differently.
H also noticed that I'm always pleasant and it's him who has to bring up our R and wanted me to know that he has "no boundaries" for me. He wants me to bring up R if I want and if he doesn't want to talk, he'll say so. Also asked that we both agree to speak up about feelings and give each other the permission to take things back or modify them later.
I told him that I regret my "autopilot" life and sad/grumpy attitude over the last year or so and was sorry that it hurt him. He interrupted: you're taking too much blame, being a martyr, that's not the case, this crisis is not your fault. I said: Not at all, I'm just recognizing my contributions to our problems.
I thanked him for being nice to me this last month and staying home. Also told him that because of his bad behavior and lies these last 6 months, that I don't trust him or believe a lot of the things he says to me and that I'm pretty sure he's cheating on me. (Obviously I didn't fess up to my snooping discovery.) H: am sorry for how I acted and sorry he made me feel that way and can understand why I feel that way. He knew he lost his credibility with me and that's why he emails me his work travel itineraries and has been good about staying home mostly or letting me know his whereabouts and calling frequently these last 4-6 weeks, right? (I said yes, mostly) Didn't confirm/deny anything.
He said knows he's been bad and unfair to me, and since the bomb, been withdrawn. Says he can fix it anytime by throwing back on his emotional armor but thinks it's important that he doesn't do that and keeps pushing through it. So he expects to be distant and withdrawn sometimes but is ready to to include me more and start "dating" and inviting me to join him with his friends.
He talked about different things that have occurred over the last 15 years. Problems he's had with our sex life (me and him) and not feeling like a man because I'm always ahead of him on the master plan (house buying, savings, etc). And everything has always been 50/50 with us -- money, chores, private spaces in the house -- which has been fair and great but now is making him feel different about it, less of a man and like we both live with each other but like single people. Not sure I understood all of it, or that he does either.
Says he's rethinking everything about his life, including whether or not we have kids. In his mind, there's no point bringing it up because he knows that I'm not interested. (We lived together for 10yrs before getting married mainly because he's younger than me and I told him I wanted him to be old enough to know what he wanted and in particular not wanting kids because I didn't want them.) I told him that I may have misled him and myself and admitted thinking about having kids too, though not as things are right now! He was surprised; I have been too. I told him that we both have changed and are changing all the time, that we haven't really talked to each other for a few years, and that both of us have to throw away all of our assumptions about the other and get talking.
I won't see him again until our first MC appt on Thursday; he flies in during the day and will meet me there. Says he's not sure we need it because we're on a good track now of discovery in ourselves and each other. But he'll be there and try to keep an open mind about it. (He had a bad experience with C as a teenager.)
We cuddled to sleep, he woke me at 5am to say goodbye, and left me a voicemail when he landed. Got an "ILY very much" at least 3 times in a 12-hour period!
So I'm feeling pretty good today. I know there will be ups and downs, so I'm not fooling myself, just enjoying what I got. Also know that I have to get it together to tell him that I snooped and know that he cheated. For now, I just want to believe it was a one-time thing, long ago. I'm thinking about instituting an amnesty night, like Lin said, and make him come clean. I know I have to do this soon, especially if it's still going on or worse than I think or ??? He's not ready to tell me on his own, and I'm not ready to confront on it.
So... JAK, Lin, anybody... what do you think? Am I doing this right/wrong?
