It is finally out, he wants a D

[CMNM]

Hey, HSS.
Glad we can get a dialogue going!

I'm going to go thru your reply one point at a time.
First of all, regarding sex, you said, "I may disagree and tell him so..." That is what I meant by disregarding his feelings. I am wondering why you don't use this opportunity to talk? To show some backbone? To do a 180?
Instead of, "That's ridiculous!" How about, "Why do you feel that way?" You may not like the answer, but I think that sometimes the LBS is so afraid of hearing something he or she won't like that we purposely put ourselves in the position of keeping things a bit confusing. That way, we still have hope. Believe me, I did that too many times in the past to count.

You said later on that he has never really shared his feelings with you, so I am expecting you will say that he won't answer that question anyway. I am wondering if he doesn't share his feelings because he is afraid of being shut down by you. Honestly, was he ALWAYS this way? Or, has it been his way for a long time, so long that it feels as if it has been always? Really think about that. It is important for you to make the distinction between him ALWAYS being this way or him being this way for a long time. If it truly is ALWAYS, then we need to figure out just why it is you got into this relationship in the first place! Think back to the beginning. What was the attraction? What kinds of things bonded the two of you together?

Back to the sex thing for a sec... Let's suppose he tells you again that he feels bad/sad/whatever after he has sex with you, so he won't do it anymore. Suppose this time you ask, "why does it make you feel bad?" The key here is to really listen to the answer. Don't butt in, don't tell him the reasons he is wrong, just listen. Tell him he has brought up some very valid points. Give him a chance to respond to that. If he doesn't respond further, just happily tell him that you will respect his feelings, that the last thing you want to do is to make him feel bad. What a heck of a 180, eh?

I think that you are so caught up in trying to keep him that you don't realize that even though you are not begging and pleading in the normal way we think of those actions, you are still stuck in those kind of behaviors. It seems that you think that the sex will bring you closer, so you push (yes, it is a push, even though it isn't obvious) to make it happen. Patience, HSS, Patience!!! Sex with you isn't going to be some kind of magical thing that is going to make him wake up and say, "hey! I do love you!" He has said it makes him feel bad. I'm sorry, that must hurt. I know it does, because my H said the same to me. And, at first I did the same as you...I had sex with him anyway. But, after a while I really started to listen and really tried to empathise with him. I am sure you don't want to make your H sad. Though it makes no sense to you, sex makes him feel guilty. SO, let this one go. Don't project into the future...don't start telling yourself that you may never have sex with him again. Think positive! Tell yourself that you will make love with him again, when he is in a healthy place.

I don't like to mention the possibility, but let's just say that things do not work out between you two. Is it seriously going to matter to you if you had sex with him 2 weeks ago or 2 months ago? It won't. So just let this one be. Let him do what he needs to do. I know you said you don't pursue him or initiate. I do think there is a small amount of manipulation going on there though. I am not faulting you- hell, I did the same things! Again though, just remember that sex didn't create your problem, and sex is not going to fix it. The underlying problem is still there, and the best way to get at that one is by listening to him and building better trust.

Don't apologize for not speaking well of your H. (Well, I think that apology had a tad of sarcasm, but I get what you're saying.) I understand that we come here to vent. But HSS, you really do build a better case (through your posts) for you and your H to NOT be together than you do for reconciliation. I cannot help but wonder if you want the marriage for the sake of the marriage, or you really think the two of you can be compatible. I never have gotten the impression that you want anything more than the stability of a marriage. Don't get me wrong, I am sure you want more than that, so I guess I should say that the impression you give is that you would be happy and relieved if he would just say, "I am not leaving." That, HSS, is a recipe for disaster.

You do deserve more than the H that you tell us about. But, since day one you have seemed to be stuck on the one thing you shouldn't be--- changing HIM. You have no control over that. Since your first post you have been overly focused on him. It seems that you are stuck in that place still. Yes, I know that you have tried the whole GAL route, and that you go to weekly meetings. It isn't enough yet, is it, HSS? So, maybe it is time to go over some goals. I know this is hard and I know it sucks, but only you can bring you happiness. You have been waiting a long time for your H to bring it to you, and I hate for you to waste another minute stuck in that cycle.

I have to wonder...if you are getting nothing from this guy, why is it that you are treating him like "the king of the castle?" Is doing that making him want to stay? Nope. So why put yourself through it? Why build up all of that resentment? I am not suggesting that you treat him with anything other than respect and love, but I am saying that you don't need to cater to his every whim. Those things are not what he wants. If it were as simple as that, you would not be here.

I hope you understand that I am not faulting you in any way. I just am challenging you to get out of your comfort zone and really look to find happiness within yourself. You sound so miserable each time you post. This cannot be healthy for you, or your children.

You said your H is like a caged animal. HSS, the best thing you can do is to let him out. Without guilt, without conditions. Let him go. I know it is easier said than done, but you are not the one exception to the rule here. You said he does nothing around the house and has no responsibilities. SO, in other words, you CAN survive him leaving. I think you will tell me that you are not stopping him. Perhaps not in so many words, HSS. But if you really do love him like you say you do, the best thing you can do is listen, validate, and ACCEPT. You have got to find a way to accept that your marriage may be over.

It is funny that I just said that...
You see, my H told me (when we were in the middle of things) that he just needed me to accept that things might not work out. He even went as far as to say if I could just let go and let things happen that they would probably work out the way I wanted them to. He just needed to know at the time that I was listening to him and I wasn't disregarding his feelings. The more I came up with ways to "fix" us, the more I turned him off.

I think you are stuck there, HSS.
What do you think?

[HSSweetheart]

Well, 8/1 came and went. Guess I am safe from him leaving until 9/1 I figure. He is like 2 different people. The one I know and the stranger. At night in bed he is sweet and caring, the one I know. Too bad I can't stay in bed forever!

[CMNM]

Well, looks like you get another month. I hope that you will use it to do something proactive instead of more of the same.

I can't lie- I am disappointed that I took all of that time to reply to you and this is what you come back with.

I wish you well in your endeavors to "keep" your H.

I just want you to know that the reason I popped onto your thread was because I can see so clearly what you cannot right now. I have been through so much of it. I wasn't here to antagonize you, to bother you, or to hurt you. I was sincerely trying to help.

Best of luck to you.

I will leave you with this. I hope you will think about it.

I never have gotten the impression that you want anything more than the stability of a marriage. Don't get me wrong, I am sure you want more than that, so I guess I should say that the impression you give is that you would be happy and relieved if he would just say, "I am not leaving." That, HSS, is a recipe for disaster.

[HSSweetheart]

First, sorry. I didn't realize you responded, my bad. My blog was not in response, it was just a general one.

Ok, to respond. Perhaps I don't always state everything that goes on. We have talked about the sex thing. The only valid answer I get is that it is wrong. He says because of the situation. So I did agree and now do whatever he wants. If he wants to fine, if not fine. Even if I disagree. So that is up to him at this point. And lately he hasn't been guilty. I knew from the beginning that alone won't change things.(Last night he initiated) I do not say no.

Yes, I will be ok when he leaves, after last time I know that about myself. But it doesn't mean I will like it. Stupid statement I guess, no one likes it. I guess treating him like a king will not make him stay, I am not that gullible. But what should I do act like a bitch? Sorta caught there. And that would be a 180 for me not to do the things I do, it is who I am. Maybe I exagerate in saying I get nothing. Obviously I get something. Some bit of happiness. We do have fun together-at least I do. I do try to listen, though some things are hard. But do I really have to listen to him tell me what kind of guy I should get next and stuff like that??? I hate that, it only brings me down. Why should we have to talk about this terrible thing every day? They'll be time enough for that. And I must say my efforts don't totally go unnoticed, he thanks me for his massages and at times says he doesn't deserve them from me. I don't even respond to that. I tell him I don't do it because I am looking for anything, including reciprocation, it is just because I want to. I do it to the kids at times as well.

And one thing I did tell my group. They asked if I would take him back after he leaves. I honestly don't know. But if I did there would be rules. He would have to agree to counselling, first and foremost. With his personality, as soon as I said it would be under rules he would say forget it. He is one of those rule haters. Hates being told what to do, has always done the opposite no matter what.

Pls help me if you would, I do appreciate your input.

[HSSweetheart]

He actually rubbed my feet last night, later asked if I liked it and said he owed me. Again reminded him that I massage him not to get anything in return.

Very sweet in bed this morning, rubbing my face and hair. How can someone who says they want to leave have good moments like this? I am just so confused.

[CMNM]

HSS,

You have been asking various forms of the same question for far too long now. ("How can someone who says they want to leave have good moments like this?")

You will most likely never get the answer you are looking for.

PLEASE stop focusing on him and what he is doing. I hate to see you get your hopes up just to come crashing down yet again.

Oh, and by the way, you should rethink that position of doing things for him (in this case, the massaging) with no thoughts of getting anything in return. Marriage is give and take. Do you REALLY want to go through your whole life just giving and never receiving anything in return? If you don't, then don't act like that just to "win" him back. It won't work.

HSS, how about posting about you instead of him. And about you means just that- YOU. Not your dealings with him, not your reactions (or lack of) to him.

I feel like I am on your back far too much, and for that reason I don't want to post to you anymore.

If all you want is for someone to write to you and say, "HSS, it sure sounds as though he doesn't want to leave you," then just keep posting in the same manner. If you want to get stronger and be prepared for the long haul, then you are going to have to dig in and start some serious self analysis.

I have asked you tons of questions that you just ignore. You just keep posting about what your H is doing.

Put yourself in the role of another DBer, and read your posts. What advice would you give to yourself?

And for the record, this board is full of people that had sex with their ex days or even hours before he or she (the ex) left for good. I know you want your H's actions to mean something, but they really just don't right now.

STOP FOCUSING ON HIM!!!!

~Pam

[HSSweetheart]

Guess I just don't understand where you are coming from. I have tried to answer all of your questions and thought I had. Apparently you are more demanding than my H. I give up.

Went to Lancaster overnight this weekend, was a good get away alone with work. That was just about ME, for me. Had a great time with friends in the business. Food was to die for!

[CMNM]

Wow. I woud think that you would welcome someone taking the time to demand more of you, since you have been stuck in the same cycle for years.

Earlier in this thread, you had 2 people say pretty much the same thing to you. You lost a couple of valuable resources. Those people have been thru this, and can see how stuck you are. People are not here to beat up on you or to make you feel bad. You are just a particularly hard case because you refuse to see that nothing is changing for you. You simply use this site as a blog, and nothing more.

I really do wish the best for you. I hope that someone else comes along and responds to your posts. This thread started off strong, with, as I said, valuable resources for you. But you just kept up with the same old complaints and weaknesses.

I don't know how else to say this without sounding mean, and I really don't want to beat up on you. I have been where you are, and that is why I (and others) recognize that you need some tough love. But, I see you are not wanting to accept it.

Please Please Please re-read this thread. Is this the person you want to be? If it is, so be it. If not, you need to do so much more than blog.

[HSSweetheart]

Sorry, this site has become unfriendly and depressing. I was looking for support. I am taking a break from it for a while.

[Dom R]

CMNM: stop 'demanding' things from her. you dont have any right to do so.
and if all she wants to do is blog.. then let her.


HSSweetheart: I'm sorry i didnt read your thread just a few minutes earlier. sigh.

i hope there are some bright spots in your life, as well as the dark ones.