RCR, I didn't mean anything bad toward you or anyone else with my posting about popular advice. RCR, I really think you are a great person, and you surely do know and understand this process! I just love the way you put things! Sometimes, I don;t agree with you, but I do respect you and your thoughts on things! Your above post, I do agree with! I do think the more you take, the worse it gets, I think you just finally reach a point where you just say "to hell with them" I reached that point awhile back, I did file for D first, I got it, even after that I tried to talk to her when she needed to talk to me, but it just got to the point where I couldn't talk to her anymore, she just pushed me to the point of no return with the things she said, even after the D, she accepted responsibility for nothing and still blamed me for everything coming and going. In our last conversation, I told her I WAS TO BLAME for everything, it was all my fault, she was totally justified in everything she did, incluing leaving me to raise the children, that she had been screwed over by everyone her entire life! LOL I then told her that since "I confessed" there was no reason for us to ever talk again. I know that kinda sounds like smart A way of talking, but I was just tired of taking it. You are right RCR, the way to not put up with it is to establish boundaries and stick with them. My boundary is not ever talking to her again.