Plank/WAW, thread 2

[Heimlich]

Damn bad vertigo episode today.

CVA, no offense taken. I know what you meant and was trying to be a little funny. No worries.

And, I'm off to lie down again. Thought I was well enough to read and type for a bit, but getting dizzy again.

BD

[delia]

W: It's like you're a huge weight holding me back. I dread coming home. When you're not around, I like to do things -- with or without the girls. I'm tired. I feel like I've been driving the relationship [in the context of making decisions about vacation, etc.] and I'm tired of it.

Heimlich--

I'm just curious, wondering whether this "you drain the life out of me" sort of statement is common to WAW's in general; or whether your wife, in particular, is easily overwhelmed, someone who needs quiet and down-time in order to unwind and feel truly herself. She may be blaming you for stresses that may actually stem partly from her own temperment.

As for her being intuitive, and awkward about explaining her feelings---I think you probably know by now that her feelings are no less powerful for being poorly expressed. Intuition is usually based on fairly detailed observations. Your wife doesn't seem to miss much that you do, or fail to speculate about why you're doing it. You probably were right about her slight reaction of surprise.

She's attending to you so carefully that you should have plenty of opportunities to surprise her. For instance, if you find her fumbling intuitiveness unattractive, there is no doubt that she's picked up on it. Why not just accord her style the same respect you hope that she'll eventually show to you? It's actually possible to validate when you don't quite know what someone's talking about, and even when they have no reasons they care to offer for any of their conclusions. You're probably more likely to get a full, coherent statement if you encourage your wife to speak her thoughts without fear of having to defend them.

[NDDT]

"I'm just curious, wondering whether this "you drain the life out of me" sort of statement is common to WAW's in general; or whether your wife, in particular,"


I vote for in general as I heard that one too.

[Atlas]

heimlich,

i got a lot of this from my w, it sounds like your w is really burned out. i would suggest that since she is in this state, don't bring up any r talks when she comes around. she isn't in a state to deal with it and she probably thinks everything in her life is not going well, so a negative attitude on her behalf is going to perceive everything as negative.

let her gain some pma, wait until you start to see that and then she will begin initiate the r talks and just validate. i think for highly emotional people the whole sitch can be very difficult to face, and dust settling period has to happen prior to any real decisions being and work being done.

just my 2 cents.

[Heimlich]

Finally starting to feel a little more like a human being again.

Been laid low with the vertigo, still can't walk all that well, but can sit up for a few minutes without having the room spin.

Thanks for the food for thought and support.

SD,

After you DB your M, maybe you can come down to FL and act as our MC!

With Pleasure!

Matt, I think showing her detachment is about the only thing that's going to change this situation. That and keeping up the changes in myself I've been making. And, yes, going to have to check out the MLC info. The more I think about it, the more I realize there may be a little bit of that in our situation.

Amy, whatsyourpoint, and everyone,
I actually asked her if she felt pressured by all that I had said, she did say no. Again, she asked me what my gut/instinct was telling me. So I told her. Not sure if that required courage or not. Well, I guess a certain level of courage, because it sure as hell hurts to get semi-rejected after putting your heart out there like that, but, again, she did ask. I know at one point I told her that "In the Lifetime movie version of our life, now is when you would leap into my arms and promise that everything would be ok?" We both just smiled and I said I also use humor to alleviate my emotions, she said she knew.

Delia,

your wife, in particular, is easily overwhelmed, someone who needs quiet and down-time in order to unwind and feel truly herself. She may be blaming you for stresses that may actually stem partly from her own temperment.

YES! Thanks, this is so obvious that I've never really articulated it to myself. I think that there is a lot of this going on. It's funny, I've tried over the years to do things to lessen the stress in her life (one of the main reasons I've stayed at my job, can work at home -- easier to get kids and things like that). During that time, she did become less anxious, but I lost part of myself. She sees me as THE primary form of stress in her life (obviously, not something I consider entirely fair), but there it is.

You're probably more likely to get a full, coherent statement if you encourage your wife to speak her thoughts without fear of having to defend them.

I admit to having gotten impatient over the years with having to drag everything out of her. I never cared how she got it out, jsut that she did. I realized a few weeks ago that I wasn't respecting how she communicates and was expecting her to communicte just like me. Not fair to her.

I really hope that she really is attending to me carefully and I'll be able to surprise her. All hopes rely on that.

Atlas,

Yes, she's burned out on the R, or has convinced herself that she is. I can't tell if she's just totally done or locking her emotions away so that she can be totally done, if you know what I mean. She does seem like she's happy though, that's what bothers/scares me. Also, she just doesn't bring up her emotions to me, and hasn't for years. Hopefully, as I remain calm and lovingly detached from her over the next few weeks and months, she'll see that the differences/changes in me are real and will want to start knocking ont he castle door.

Actually, now that I think about it, she did initiate the R portion of this talk. I was about to shut up, so maybe her asking me to tell her what I really feel was a good sign. Of course, the continued "I'm done" statements hurt like hell.

As all of you are my witnesses, all positive, all the time. And no more R talks. Promise (unless she asks, right? I can talk then?)

She has been taking care of me for the last two days. Made me sandwiches and has asked if she could do anything for me. I know that she still loves me, but it's that damn spark. She took the girls to Savage Mill (antique mall south of Baltimore) this afternoon. Asked if i needed anything and gave me a kiss on the cheek before she left. I'd almost rather she didn't kiss me on one hand. On the other, it is a source of physical connection and, who knows, one day the kiss on the check might become something a little more.

Thanks again, everyone.

BD

[Not Much Left]

H
bump!

[Heimlich]

Feeling back to normal after not being able to remain upright for the last few days. Other than the Saints looking awful tonight, feeling pretty good. Of course, they stunk last preseason too, so I'll take an awful preseason and a trip to the Superbowl any day.

So, sortof went with my gut a little bit last night and earlier today. Since my wife is firmly on the D-train engineer's seat, figured I didn't have much to lose.

Last night, went upstairs to get something or other from the bathroom (I'm sleeping in our basement). Thanked her for taking care of me Friday and all of Saturday and mentioned that we need to start thinking of what we need to tell our oldest D, who is asking why I'm sleeping in the basement (We've been telling her it's because I snow and it keeps mama awake, actually, pretty legitimate, I'm loud.) Regardless, I think she kind of knows something is up. W said, "I know," but no firm ideas. Let that drop, mentioned that I still think we're not giving our relationship a real chance. Didn't say too much, but she was hitting her inhaler (a little asthma, also hits it sometimes when she gets anxious). She said I had made her a little anxious, so I asked if if you're so sure of your decision, why do you get so anxious when I say I think we're making a mistake? No real answer.

So, still a little off-kilter this morning. Couldn't focus well enough to read the paper, sat outside for a little while with her (after watching Harvey as I woke up -- GREAT movie, highly recommend it. Elwood Dowd is my new model for detachment and acting as if. If you've seen the movie, you know what I mean.) Had some laughs, little idle chit-chat. No big deal.

She ran errands during the afternoon. When she got back, as she was unpacking groceries, I just asked her if I could talk for a few minutes. She said sure. I said I was a little confused about how to approach her. A lot of what I've read and thought says not to talk to you. You've said the same. At the same time, my gut says to fight for you, which when you told me the other day to tell you what my gut said, I did (first post on this thread). So, I said, I'm going with my gut. I don't want you to think that, if I'm quiet, that I'm OK with where we're going or that I've given up. I still want you in my life. I said I feel like I'm becoming the person that she married, but better. Said I'd like her help. That I think we are quitting and giving up on our M too soon, that focusing on each other, I still think we can have a great M, that better can come after worse. That I'm losing my best friend and it makes me sad. I told her that I did shut her out, but partly because I was afraid of her reactions toward me (dismissive on occassion when I showed a softer side in the past). We can always get a D. I know that your mind is made up and that's what scares me. I've finally figured out and understand how I've hurt you and made you feel, without input from you, and you've decided without talkign to me that it's over. If we go to D mediation (August 16), that will cement in your mind that our M is over. I'd just like to ask you for a chance. A real chance. Because you didn't give us one, and I want to be a true partner with you. I know that there's no guarantee that we'll still work, but I'd like to see for sure.

She said, again, that she didn't think I would have listened to her. I said it's a shame that we'll never know that.

She seemed open at the beginning, but I talked a little too long. She mentioned that she's thought a lot about her decision. I said that I know you have, but that I finally get it. Two months ago, I didn't. Now I do. I'm finally really at a place where I can be a good husband to you and we're never going to know for sure what could have been. That scares me. Again, all I'm asking you for is a chance.

She also mentioned the pushing for sex thing again. I told her that I didn't want to have sex with her. I paused and she kind of looked at me, 'That's a lie'. I said yeah and then she said, but I know what you mean.

Once we were finished, told her that was it. Thank you for listening.

I did say that she was right back in oct when we tried after the A (well, I said back when we started trying to fix this) -- just spending time together, going on dates, no pressure, and talking is how I'd like to proceed. Told her I would read for my sanity, but didn't expect her to.

Also that I didn't want things to be weird between us and that I'd like to talk and hang out and do things together (going to watch some episodes of Monk tomorrow night).

Not much interaction other than that. Few laughs here and there, but nothing major.

I know, I know. Don't do this. Really, this is it. I know that there's a chance to keep DBing after D mediation, but I know her and once she's there it's going to take a minor miracle to change things around. Plus, kind of felt like the right thing to do.

Anyway, feeling pretty good about where things are. Got my cards on the table. Think she finally really heard what I was saying without trying to interpret or filter it.

Fingers crossed,

BD

[waw1978]

Good work H!

Like you said your cards are on the table.

Now give your W the space she needs and DB like a champ! Remember it will take time and lots of patience.

[Steel_Box]

I agree Good work H.

Now the ball is entirely in her court. You have to wait and see. Really wait, don't bring it back up unless she does. It may be awhile, so stay strong and remind yourself of your goal.

[Not Much Left]

H
You did it. Feel empowered by it for you well being. You did a good job. We all talk too much in these scenarios but sounds like you got your points across.

You may be suprised now. Think of it that way. Anything that happens on the positive side is a suprise and its all upside from that angle!

Hope you have good day.