Plank/WAW, thread 2

[Heimlich]

Thanks everyone. I know it was a long post, and I don't think I was clear enough on this point -- she asked me what I was really feeling. About 95% of the conversation was after that (and all the juicy bits). The window stuff was just a very small, very petty, but for me, very real illustration of how she's made me feel small over the years. I know I should have swallowed, but I didn't. Actually, thinking back over it, I'm kind of glad this happened.

1. I've said a lot of this to her before, but never when I felt, what's the word, strong in myself as I do now.
2. For the first time, I think she really HEARD what I said.
3. I did shut up before she tuned out. And this did last for a good 15/20 minutes or so. That's new for me.
4. This is the first time she's admitted out loud that she's afraid of trying partly because she thinks my changes aren't real.
5. First time she ever said that she didn't want to feel like she was leading me on. So it was the first time I've ever been able to tell her that if we were to give it an honest effort, together, working on the R at the same time, I wouldn't feel as if I were being led on.
6. I may have imagined it, but when I said that, who knows, I might find that you can't give me what I want, I think that surprised her at least a little.

One other element of the conversation went something like this:

"I don't know how to talk to you. If I don't share my feelings at all, then you might think I'm fine with the D. If I'm too happy and jokey, you're afraid to be the same back to me for fear of leading me on. I don't know how to be anyone but myself, but I don't know how to talk to you anymore. I've told you a lot of this before, and you said it was pushing you away. Tonight, you're actually listening and asked me how I felt. It's hard for me to understand what to say around you anymore."

Something to that effect anyway. Man, need to keep a recorder with me from now on.

Anyway, absolutely no intention of doing this again without her bringing it up first.

BD

[Heimlich]

Sara,

For lack of a better word, she's anti-intellectual. She's very smart, but she's always relied on herself for making decisions. She's always been like this. It's one of the more unattractive aspects of her personality. I find books to be a source of comfort and knowledge. She finds them intimidating. She's never been able to adequately explain why.

Actually, when she decides to give this a go, that's going to have to change. She's going to have to respect how I think things through more than she has so far in our R.

BD

[Not Much Left]

H
I am proud of you my man. You laid it out there, with the idea you did not want to regret anything 2 yrs from now. That is admirable in anyone's book. I know we all have wanted to do this, tonight was one of those times for me. We are all afraid of the exact reactions you got tonight.

Its almost like you did each and every one of us a favor. Why? Because we get to watch and see what happens in this convo of yours. We all hope it goes well. Yes, surely it violated all sorts of DB guidelines, but that is all they are, guidelines. Sometimes you do go with your gut. I would guess if you were in front of a very wise C, and were able to say what you said, she might have opened up more. But it sounds like she is like my W and has a really hard time saying to you what she FEELS. My W has said almost everything you quote in here, "I feel better when you are not around". Any you went where I want to go, WHY?, (WTF does that mean? - you did not say it but I am sure you were thinking that). We all want to say WHY????

So as not to reciprocate the War and Peace diatribe, I think you are going to be Ok from this and it was not as bad a result as you might think. You may not even think that? I think there will be positives that come out of it. A wake up call maybe?

Sleep well my friend.

[Heimlich]

Thanks, CVA. Kind of in that tired, but not sleepy yet state. Need to do mucho work tomorrow, so that ain't good.

Yes, my W has a hard time telling me how she feels. She's always had a hard time opening up to me, but she used to. I think as we got older I just got tired of having to pry it out of her all the time. Thinking about it, that might be one of the root causes for all of this. Actually, it is a major cause of our issues.

I'd like to say I was thinking rationally when I kept asking her why, but, in all honesty, I was just so frustrated and had just bared my soul to her that I thought she damn well owed me an answer to how she really felt. Even then, she can't give me a reason for WHYshe feels that way. She's funny that way. She operates by how she feels, but I don't think really understands how her feelings work. I mean, I've not always been a great husband and my greatest sin is sloth, but she keeps saying that she doesn't feel like she can DO anything when I'm around, that I suck the life out of her. I wish I had thought of it to say, but, really, I don't want that much responsibility for her happiness. Plus, we do a lot of stuff together as a family, and I bring up a lot. That reminds me, one of the things she said way back when the shiite hit the fan last Oct was that she wishes I were more outdoorsy. I want to LOL. I bought a pair of hiking boots two years ago and use them somewhat frequently. I love to hike in the woods/mountains, but nearly every time I've tried to plan a trip, she's always shot it down. Ditto for camping. In fact, I was looking into camping gear before we had our second child (stopped because couldn't afford it after). Would love to do more outdoorsy stuff with her, she just doesn't. Aaaaaggghhh, I married a crazy lady. It's almost like she's had to push be away so that she could be independent, even though I've never held or close or prevented her from doing a damn thing that she likes to do.

Grrrrrr. Ok, I'm stopping now. God help me, I'm still in love with this woman.

Looking back at the conversation, really, what harm could it have possibly done. We're going for our first D mediation on the 16th of this month. I made sure not to blame her for anything and kept the focus on me and how I felt. When she told me her feelings, I accepted and validated them (after all, she was about 85% right in her assessment).

Anyways, maybe it is time for some sleep.

BD

[Heimlich]

And, CVA, let me know what else I can be a Guinea Pig for regarding R talks with a WAW

[SuperDad]

Heimlich,
I think we must have married sisters! The frustrating thing is that this combination of analytical and emotional can be a powerful yin/yang combination if you understand how to make it work.

After you DB your M, maybe you can come down to FL and act as our MC!

SD

[Matt-14]

BD,

I think you will be fine. I think it was good to get that out in the open. Just don't do it every week!

It's almost like she's had to push be away so that she could be independent, even though I've never held or close or prevented her from doing a damn thing that she likes to do.

I think this is just a symtom of an MLC. I could be wrong. I know they want to blame us for everthing. I know my W tried to push me away before all of this went down. (I think she was hoping I would be so miserable and want to leave) She told me this! I asked her the other day how she thought I would feel when she told me she wanted out. She told me that she thought I would be happy. I guess I showed her. I believe that your W still loves you but is afraid or unsure. I don't think they want to lead us on or give us false hope. Or maybe they are just done....I don't know....It is so hard to rationalize their thinking!

I have accepted what will probably be. I think when you do, you really detach. I think she will really notice then. I am just taking it one day at a time. If her feelings change, then maybe we can see what feelings I have left. I don't know what the future holds. Sometimes I think and they may think also, that it would just be easier to let go then try to bring back feelings that they don't feel. It is too much like work and I guess like they have said they shouldn't have to work to have feelings.

I think when you accept and don't try and reason the why or what's you two will become more comfortable around each other. More like friends and then see what happens from there.

All right I have rambled enough. I'll check in when I get back from the beach.

Matt

[Amy]

This sounds like a million conversations I have had with my H. In fact I could have almost written that. I can not even begin to tell you what you should do because if you look at any of my sitch you will see that I am lost. I can tell you though to hang in there. Many things get said in these situations that are not meant. Stay strong. Your heart is in the write place. Take a deep breath and be good to yourself.

[Not Much Left]

H
Sorry, I think I wrote that not really thinking, AGAIN! What I am trying to say, is that it is fortunate for us that you had the nerve to say what you did and we chicken s*%ts get to benefit from how it goes. I TRULY did not mean anything by it.

CVA

[whatsyourpoint]

Wow. It is so hard not to give in to the temptation to express yourself completely, especially when there is even a perceived slight, intended or otherwise. I know that I still occasionally can't hold my tongue and make W feel squeezed. For me, after being very uncommunicative and unable to express feelings, to have restraint can feel like a retreat into my cave.

I haven't caught up on all of the previous thread, but plan on doing so.