It's going to be a bumpy ride

[Trixi]

I didnt quite follow what you said. so I'll say something else in reply to that

Dating you is not him "working on the relationship". Dont say that, dont even think it.

I think you are a very, very long way from him wanting to work on the relationship. I think you are back to a similar state of "dating" him. you are in the position of convincing someone you've never dated before, that he might want to date you long-term. Sad as that may sound.
I think you're in the situation of re-proving to him, that dating you can be fun and enjoyable, and stimulating at the emotional level.
he needs to see you as more than just a physical release and housekeeper
but its something you have to attract him with, not force him or rationalize him into.

So, are you suggesting that I DO become part of the harem? Is that all I am worth as his wife?

Part of me agrees- that we need to start from scratch.

The other part says "F that! He IS married to me. I AM his wife. I am NOT going to 'compete' with God knows who, so that he can be a cake eater.

disclaimer: all these suggestions are just based on stuff I've read about other people, in my year of separation now :-/


It's interesting that he hasnt started packing.
it's pathetic that, he doesnt have "mommy" (YOU) to help him pack, so he gets real-life DADDY to help him pack.
What is he, 60? going on 70? sheesh. selfish.

Yeah. mid-60s for age, but he's in good shape. I think that my H should have used all of his great new friends to help him. Not mommy and daddy.

If he still drags his feet for some reason about actually moving, and still stays at your home.. you might play the role of slightly pushy but still appealing wife, and tell him that you want him to take you out somewhere fun (instead of him bumming around by himself "to all hours". But dont say that to HIM. this parenthesis is just for YOU.)

Right now he is at his apartment unloading furniture. The office is missing his desk, etc. It's too late for that. Besides, he would tell me 'no' anyway.

cant remember if you have kids, i think you do.. if so, make sure you have childcare so that you can stay out together AS LONG AS HE WANTS.. all night if the mood takes him.

Kids grown and out.

After reading Love Must be Tough, I think I am supposed to put my foot down and say "if you want that lifestyle I can't stop you; but i'm your wife and I will not be treated like just 'one of the many'."

[Dom R]

So, are you suggesting that I DO become part of the harem? Is that all I am worth as his wife?

no no NO!

more like the "start from scratch" viewpoint. or at least a "restart".

I'm saying:
Lets say you were "on your own". "dating". looking for a new relationship.
First, you would potentialy identify someone you might be interested in dating. learn a bit about him. then start officially on the first few "dates".

I think most women would not wish to continue "dating" a man, who was at the same time dating other women in the same way.

So, I'm suggesting starting from the "dating" level of expectations for each other. Try to get to know each other with "fresh eyes" (I think that's in DB book?).

At the same time, don't drop your standards.
Just like you would dump a guy you were "dating", if he were also dating someone else... make it clear those are, and always have been(?) your dating standards, and if he wants to "date" other women at the same time... you're not interested in dating him.

This is good for multiple reasons:

1. you dont demean hyourself by being "part of a harem"
2. it shows you have backbone to him
3. it shows HIM, you are not a pushover, and you will NOT just be there at his beck and call. If he disrespects you by being with other women, you will not be available to him any more. Because those are your standards, and you're sticking to em.

The trouble will be if he wants to play the "serial monogamy" game: "date" you, until he finds someone... date them for a bit.. STOP dating them come back to you.. find someone else...

you may have to decide how to handle that sort of thing.
With a bit of luck.. if he doesnt have his eye on someone already.. he will just agree to "date" you, for his 2 months of celebacy, and if you stay strong but not clingy/pressuring as far as "your relationship" goes.. he may wish to continue exclusively with you.

Once a week, just aint going to cut it, though. I think you know that. If you're dating someone, you want to spend more time with them. if you want to spend more time with them, you see them more than once a week.

Trouble is, hyou cant push him/bargain him for that i think.
I think you have to use some feminine whiles on him

(how DO women get guys to ask them out again, without asking the guy directly? if you didnt do that much before you were married.. maybe you should ask some female friends for tips

I'd say focus on having a good "first date", and work it from there, carefully.

just a guess.

[Trixi]

Aren't I supposed to be going dark? Plan B and all that?

He told my mom this morning that while there was a small chance he could change his mind, he didn't feel like that was the direction he was headed.

Maybe I don't understand what it is to "go dark"...

[Dom R]

"supposed to", is up to you.

if you want to do that then do that. Dont date him; tell him your conditions of return/reestablishing contact with you, when he moves out. Then dont speak to him, until he's ready to fulfil your conditions.


or, if you want to stay in contact with him, and work the gentler persuasion methods.. do that instead.

Thing is, with the other site... the plan b thing, usually works best, when you have shown the other person that you can be different, consistantly, for quite a while, before going dark.

I dont think that you've done that.


Another thought: My opinion is that you should not judge what your spouse is going to do, based on what he tells other people. you should try to estimate, based on his actions. Him telling your mother something, doesnt neccesarily mean anything.
he's been having sex with you. recently. there's a fairly big "action" to consider.
it would mean more, if your genders were reversed, unfortunately. but it's still something to consider.



and then agian.. :-) in some ways, "going dark" shows that you are strong.
it's kinda a roll the dice thing, without being able to read his mind or the future, i'm afraid.

anyone else wanna chime in here?

[Trixi]

We just agreed to a separation agreement (sealed with a b'call)- and the long and the short of it is that we are both allowed to date whomever we choose, if we want. However, sexual contact (as defined by anything happening below the belt-either to or from us) is strongly discouraged and the other spouse is to be notified immediately if anything like that happens. It is also understood that if any sexual contact occurs and we get back together, STD tests will be performed.

I let him know that there will be no late night b'calls and that once the door shuts and he moves out, he will have a whole different set of things to do in order to get me back. Including, but not limited to, a more formal courtship. AND, that I will not be part of a harem because I AM his wife and I deserve better than that.

He, himself, said that he keeps wondering what the he11 he is doing. But, he feels like he just has to do it. This is the most I have seen him actually verbally doubt his decision.

OH! and he invited me out to dinner and movie tonight.

[Dom R]

i am so sad for you.

you have basically just agreed to be sexual relief for your husband, until he finds a new lover. Then, you're history.

You have just shown him that you have absolutely no backbone whatsoever, and you will support whatever sleazy plans he has, until he finally decides to kick you out of his life.


WAKE UP AGENT99!!!


if you EVER want your husband back, tell him you changed your mind RIGHT NOW !!!

make some real boundaries, and STICK TO THEM !!!!!


if you do not snap out of submissive helpless woman, today, and follow a plan like we've been discussing just a few posts back, your husband is gone.

[Dom R]

Clarification: You've just endorsed him dating, and making out, with anyone he wants to.
oh, and "strongly discouraged"??? oh please.

that means absolutely nothing. you've given him the green light to go hunting, and screw someone if he finds her attractive enough.
You've just nullified his whole "stay celibate for 2 months" promise. Now it's, "well, if he ends up screwing someone.. he has to tell you about it".

And if she's attractive enough to screw once, she'll be attractive enough to keep on at it for a good long time.

If you don't stop this right now, you've just changed your "try things for 2 months, and maybe get husband back after 2 months", to "well, MAYBE you'll get husband back, after he finds someone else to screw around with, then gets bored of her after 6 months and possibly considers you again".


he keeps telling you what he needs to be in a relationship with you.. and you keep ignoring him.

you should expect him to leave you for good. After all, he is communicating his needs to you, and you are choosing not to meet them.
You keep choosing to NOT be a strong woman with principles.

[Dom R]

well, ok, I guess you've said you wont be sexual relief for him after he's out the door.
But I think the rest of what I wrote, is accurate :-(
You've signed off on him dating other people, and you have nothing leading him to date you when he's moved out.

PS: in the off chance he does try to date you after moveout... I would highly recommend that you get 'a friend' to follow him and see what he does on his nights out, to verify that he isnt two-timing you. At this point, it's highly likely that this is all a setup to facilitate him dating someone he's already met.

Someone who is in the process of moving out, and gets you to agree to him dating, yet STILL hooks up with you for a booty call in the middle of all that.... is two-faced. it would not be sensible to trust him to tell you about some other woman.

Read all the posts in infidelity. How many unfaithful spouses actually admit it, unless they are faced with 100% proof they've been cheating? (and even then, how many of them deny it still?)

[Trixi]

Wow- and I thought I had made headway since initially he wanted NO boundaries whatsoever on sex.

He had already spelled out in no uncertain terms that he intended to date, *if* he wanted to. Dating was never, ever off the table. In fact, I thought it was good that I told him I wouldn't be part of a harem and that if he was going to date me, it would be ME only. And since b'call is attached to dating and courtship, I thought I HAD put boundaries on sex.

Oh dear- I gotta run out the door.

[Trixi]

Okay-
we had a chit chat on the way to dinner. I said that upon further reflection, it didn't seem wise to be making out with other people. He agreed that it could lead to undesirable results. Did NOT want to rewrite the contract. "After all- [he] IS moving out." I said that if we were trying to get our heads on straight, that it didn't make sense to be adding a whole other dimension of problems. Additionally- we have 12+ years of fidelity and the bell can't be unrung and shouldn't be willy nilly thrown away. His response "I have told you, I am NOT doing this just to go out and get laid and screw everything that walks by. I don't need that. And if we get back together, that wouldn't be good for us." To which I said "true dat!"

We went to coffee later and he was talking about the most popular cars and was saying he thought corvette was number 1 and mustang number 2 and I said "Boomers hit Mid-life crisis" and he laughs and says "you think I'm going thru a mid-life crisis?" and I said "I think that you are, yes. Additionally, I let you get away with WAY too much for WAY too long, so it was hard for you when I put my foot down....(he was nodding at this point) and once you are out, you are NOT going to be able to get away with that stuff and have me back." His closing thought-"If we make it through this, we are going to be stronger than ever; If we don't, you'll always be my friend and I'll always love you." (I said I would always love him, but I couldn;t say that I would be his 'friend' since I am his WIFE and he's my HUSBAND.)

Anyhoo-right now he is singing karaoke to me (just like the old days) and we'll be leaving for a midnight showing of Bourne Ultimatum in less than an hour.