Tucson, or bust?

[fearless]

She will go to N. Illinois, leaving me to "hold down the fort" while she visits her family, or she will leave me to "hold down the fort" while she goes on a three-day cancer walk, or a weekend residential retreat,

Hmmmm very interesting. I detect a trend where she goes off and spends time DOING THINGS FOR OTHERS - family, charity, work. You very well might find just as bad as a reaction about the hiking trip because it is something you are doing purely for "fun." It's not your fault at all but she may feel like she always is taking care of others and may be jealous that you would be able to consider taking some time for fun. In that sense she is the martyr who is always taking care of other people's needs and doing what she HAS to do. I don't doubt she has control issues but I think there are other things at play also.

In that sense you have some choices of how to handle things right now:

1) You could see if any guys you know are interested in working with Habitat for Humanity or some other volunteer organization for a few days together.
2) If you do decide to just go to Tucson, then FORCE her to take a weekend to do something FUN.
3) Deal with this issue directly - BIG TOPIC!!
4) ETC.

[sat567]

And Hdog contributed to this situation as equally as she did.

Hdog, do you tend to ask her "permission" and does she tend to just TELL you what she's doing? Did you and she make the decision about the puppy or did you just let her do it?

I do tend to ask "permission." Or (hanging head in NG shame), I hide things from her, to avoid making waves. This, I have resolved, HAS to stop. And although she usually discusses her plans with me (note, no "permission" seeking), occasionally she'll spring something on me with little warning. The bigger problem is with me asking/telling her about something I want to do. And that is one element of the current situation.

As far as the puppy was concerned, I supported her decision. She did seek my assent, if not my permission. She's been the one coming home at lunch to let the puppy out, and getting up in the middle of the night to let it out. At least so far.

Have you ever verbally disagreed with her and taken a stand regarding budget, scheduling, housework, food, etc.? If you have, what was her response? If you haven't, why not?

Yes, from time to time. Note that I have tended to operate from a position of "mea culpa" on the budget issues. I screwed up my finances and our finances a couple of times before she took it all over. Since then, I'm much more disciplined, but when she shows me a sheet of paper that shows the amount of extra time she has put in above and beyond the equivalent of a 40 hour week, and the amount of a bonus she gets because of that time, or, perhaps, a sheet showing the amount of money she's received as a gift from a relative, and says, "this is the money I'm using to buy the dog, pay for the retreat, etc," it's not that I even care, really. The only time I "care" is when I have, what I would say is the equivalent kind of cash -- "F@ck you money" is what my mom would call it, money you can use for whatever the F you want -- and she gets all grouchy about it.

The thing is, when I do "take a stand" on something, it tends to end up like this. Full of sound and fury. Resulting in -- nothing.

And fearless: I don't ignore my wife's issues on most things. When I do, it is more out of forgetfullness or lack of awareness, than it is volitional. And I have to say that my forgetfullness is not just a passive aggressive thing. It's part of my ADD. And, as I told her this morning, I'm doing a lot better at remembering things than I used to be. She asked me how I measured that, and I told her it was subjective. She said, she didn't think I was any better about remembering. I said I thought I was. How is THAT going to get resolved?

I'm all for listening to her. I know it is frustrating for her to feel unheard. I feel the same way.

Hairdog

[fearless]

How do you foresee these complications being resolved?
MsHdog: Spend the money on your kids, your wife, and then, if there is any left, yourself.
Me: Spend the money on myself.

MsHdog: (Underlying Core issues) Keep our finances under control, don't do things frivolously, appreciate me and acknowledge me for the sacrifices I have made, etc.
Hdog: Get my self esteem and power back on track. Get away from the Nice Guy Syndrome. ETC.

Is the trip the only way for you to "focus on making your needs a priority?" yes it's something that sounds fun and in all honesty I don't see a single problem with it AT ALL but then again I am not your wife I think there are plenty of ways for you to focus on your needs without weekend trips and any $$.

The flip side is that if you don't go on the trip, not going still does not resolve the underlying issues your wife brought up with unhappiness about the idea of the trip. You will still need to meet those head on. And by discussing them who knows, maybe the trip can become an option.

Just some of my thoughts anyway. Take them for what they are worth Like the Sundance Kid told Butch "You just keep thinkin' Butch. That's what you're good at."

[sat567]

HD, you are too nice of a guy!

I actually bristled when I read that. My world has changed since Dr. Glover came into my life. (Thank you, Mrs.Nop!)

Hairdog

[fearless]

When I do, it is more out of forgetfullness or lack of awareness, than it is volitional. And I have to say that my forgetfullness is not just a passive aggressive thing.

I have the exact same thing so I know how it is to not always remember!! Ask Raven sometime about how forgetful I can be. He does a great job dealing with it and not taking it personally because he knows it is not meant personally. My friends are very understanding too.

So ask her whether she is just mad at you for eating the olives OR is she mad at you because she thinks you are being inconsiderate and uncaring. Really they are two different things.

Because Raven and I have a long distance relationship, a lot of our talking is done here and there when we have a bit of time. I have a horrible habit of being in the middle of a conversation and needing to end it abruptly. I know it feels rude and I can usually sense his irritation. BUT when we talk later and I apologize, he is always okay. He says that yes he is upset at the moment with my quick good bye but after realizing it isn't personal he gets over it quickly. I don't expect or want him to not have that initial "bothered" feeling. What is good is that he can let it go because he does not personalize it.

Does that make ANY sense???

[lettie]

You are the classic conflict avoider. But this creates havoc on relationships. Cause you will, and have, had such resentment issues...it gives the other person so much control, and worse, they get used to it and think it is just a given. She is the parent...giving orders to everyone, including you.

So the retreat she goes on costs money? Just let her know this is your retreat...LOL.

[Crazy Eddie]

Yes, from time to time. Note that I have tended to operate from a position of "mea culpa" on the budget issues. I screwed up my finances and our finances a couple of times before she took it all over. Since then, I'm much more disciplined, but when she shows me a sheet of paper that shows the amount of extra time she has put in above and beyond the equivalent of a 40 hour week, and the amount of a bonus she gets because of that time, or, perhaps, a sheet showing the amount of money she's received as a gift from a relative, and says, "this is the money I'm using to buy the dog, pay for the retreat, etc," it's not that I even care, really. The only time I "care" is when I have, what I would say is the equivalent kind of cash -- "F@ck you money" is what my mom would call it, money you can use for whatever the F you want -- and she gets all grouchy about it.

The thing is, when I do "take a stand" on something, it tends to end up like this. Full of sound and fury. Resulting in -- nothing.

Do you need her permission on this? What will she do if you just go? Retaliate? Or respect you more? You don't have to convince her that you are entitled to go... you only have to convince yourself.

How long does she get to hold your dropping the ball on the finances over your head? Forever? Time to revisit that deal.

And fearless: I don't ignore my wife's issues on most things. When I do, it is more out of forgetfullness or lack of awareness, than it is volitional. And I have to say that my forgetfullness is not just a passive aggressive thing. It's part of my ADD. And, as I told her this morning, I'm doing a lot better at remembering things than I used to be. She asked me how I measured that, and I told her it was subjective. She said, she didn't think I was any better about remembering. I said I thought I was. How is THAT going to get resolved?

Are you on medication? If not, see a doctor and get on it... it really helps. You'll probably have to change it up a few times to really get on track, but stay with it.

And make sure she knows you're on it. That shows her you're taking concrete steps to improve yourself and better meet her needs as well as yours.

Keep a journal. Maybe here, maybe elsewhere, and note honestly what you've forgotten and what you've remembered, where you dropped the ball and where you caught it and held on to it, and whatever else seems worth remembering for the long term. Maybe you'll end up showing it to her, maybe not. But at least you'll know, and knowing that you're doing your part well enough will confer some immunity within your mind to her rants, and maybe that knowing will give you confidence that convinces her.

[sat567]

I detect a trend where she goes off and spends time DOING THINGS FOR OTHERS

Except the "retreat" was definitely something for herself. While not exactly "fun", it was a Buddhist meditation retreat and she does enjoy that sort of thing. I think that you might have a point about her having a problem with me going somewhere and having "fun", though. How f@cked up is that? And as far as her feeling she is always taking care of others, I'm sure she probably does feel like that some of the time. Her job is all about taking care of others (divorce attorney). When she wakes up, she has to get herself and our daughter ready to hit the road. But , but the time she gets home, daughter is fed, bathed, and usually ready for bed, having spent the last four hours with me.

I guess my point is, I take care of others, too. But I'm trying to remember that I haven't always been ONLY the father, the husband, the worker. I used to be some people's friend. I used to be the funny guy who loved to make people laugh, and would do just about anything to crack someone up. Somewhere, there is a picture of me with my pants down around my ankles, with only a dormitory sign between my genitals and the camera. Yep...that's me.

Hairdog

[MJontheMend]

I think you should spend the $200 on some very expensive lingerie for MsHD and then you should leave immediately on the camping trip NOP suggested after presenting her with the package. Why? Because thinking about it is making me laugh.

[sat567]

Are you on medication? If not, see a doctor and get on it... it really helps. You'll probably have to change it up a few times to really get on track, but stay with it.

Yep. Adderall. It made, I think, a big difference in my ability to focus. And yes, I keep track of these things by means of journaling.

I'm going to a meeting in a couple of minutes, but I also wanted to mention the following situation, which happened Monday night. I said to W, "I want to ML." She politely said, "No thanks. I'm too tired." I was having trouble getting to sleep so I went downstairs, took care of myself (psst - euphemism for MB) and went back upstairs to bed. She asked, "what were you doing downstairs?" Having discussed this very scenario with my counselor the week before, and my usual, dishonest response such as "got a glass of milk", and with the awareness of the NG tendency to LIE to cover up those shameful things about us that might make us not-so-nice in others' eyes, I said, "Are you sure you want to know the answer to that question?"
She said, "what...where you jacking off?"
H: Yes, as a matter of fact, I was.
W: You know, you don't need to tell me that kind of thing.
H: I don't want to lie to you. You deserve the truth.
W: No, that is just so "in your face." You can exercise some discretion in what you tell me.

Hairdog