My marriage is hopeless V

[EmtnRllrCstr]

Frank,

Scott....we sound alike. My comment was that I just can't conceive of not being around to pour milk on S6's Cinnamon French Toast cereal....or D4 calling for me to help her in the BR...or those goodnight kisses from both of them. I've said the same thing...I planted my W's favorite trees on the property..built the house for US...to make a family......

I agree totally. It is the little things that I will miss the most. I typically put both of my girls to bed every night and I love every minute of it. D5 and I pray, read together, and then have a little connect time. She typically asks me off the wall questions that I have to dig in mind for answers to, but, then she will ask me more serious questions that show her insecurities and fears. I am typically blown away by how perceptive of the world around her she really is. D2 and I read, pray, and then I hold her she puts her head on my shoulder and we sing a lulla bye together.

These are the moments that I cherish the most and now I am getting cheated out of them. Heck...I am starting to cry rightnow thinking about them. Damn....I have not cried for a month now, seriously it will be month this Friday. I guess it is healthy...it proves that I am human after all.

Scott, you WILL find life again. It will be different and perhaps not the way we had planned and perhsps even cause twinges of pain at times.

Your right Frank, I am seeing that there is life without my W. Sure I prefer for her to be apart of it, but I cannot control that part. As it stands now it is going to be me and my girls, the Three Musketeers, for a while. I am actually OK with this. As for the twinges of pain. I guess that just comes with life in general. I will try to see them as a reminders that I am alive.

We....hey....we have no control over how they are driving this. We need to stop needing them.

Yeah, We can only control ourselves. I'm just trying to not get infront of the run away bus that my W is currently driving.

Just a crazy thought for the rest of you and by no means am I supporting WAS. But, do you ever wonder if all of this really is harder on WAS then it is on us? I have a friend who used to be on this board(awhile back in the leaving section) that had an OM but choose to stay in her M. From our email conversations I sometimes wonder if what she is going through is harder then what I am going through. I know the WAS pain and confusion is self inflicted(which I have little sympathy for),but they get wrapped in this world of illogical thinking. What's wrong seems right and whats right seems wrong. They can convince themselves into just about anything but at the sametime have a fairly logical perspective on other things outside of there R. I know this is not the case for all WAS, some totally just go nuts and have no remorse. But some might actually suffer worse then us...Is that possible. Just something that I have thought about recently.

Take Care,
Scott

[Hope_11]

Actually, she has noticed. She told me she sees it as me moving on and enjoying life on my own. She also said that she could tell that I am enjoying myself now since I do not have to deal with her garbage anymore.

Excellent DBing...they say the best revenge is a life well-lived.

Is she going to have any friends? She has ran away from most of her current friends because she doesn't want to hear that she is wrong and her possible new circle of friends are going to dislike her for being a home wrecker...ouch...

Not true friends...you can't treat people like she has and expect much in return. Everytime you mention something about your W, I think that you are talking about my H. He ran away from everyone because he doesn't want to hear that he is wrong. It will catch up with them. Wouldn't you hate to be in their shoes?

[EmtnRllrCstr]

Wouldn't you hate to be in their shoes?

Yes, I would...

[Hope_11]

Just a crazy thought for the rest of you and by no means am I supporting WAS. But, do you ever wonder if all of this really is harder on WAS then it is on us?

I think in my case it is harder on my WAH than it is on me. Sure, he's made all the decisions...he should be doing what he wants...but deep down I don't think he is. If he could make this whole mess disappear, he would. He has to look at himself in the mirror everyday and not only know that he did me wrong, but that he did himself wrong. No matter how hard he tries to convince himself and others that he is doing the right thing, his heart knows the truth. I am living the same life...I still have a great job, a nice place to live, my family, my friends, and most of my ILs. The only thing missing is my H. My H doesn't really have anything...dead end job, crappy place to live, and a family that he let down and now they are so tired of his lies a lot of them aren't even talking to him...oh, I almost forgot he's got OW...we all know what she is worth...nothing. I was the one that was cheated on and rejected but given that, I still believe I am happier than my H.

[EmtnRllrCstr]

I knew the day was soon coming when my W and I would be telling my D5 that we are going to be living separately. I believe this is going to happen by the end of this week. My W now has mentioned the talk to me a few times the last few days and has just sent me an email with her thoughts. I do not disagree with her about what to say or even the setting that she wants to create.

This has really brought me down. I cannot fathom crushing my little girl like this, but it is being pushed on me by my W's poor choices. Just the thought of seeing the confusion and insecurity on my DD face is getting to me now.

I will have my girls tonight since my W is going to be working, hopefully I can shake the blues before then.

Take Care,
Scott

[faithisbelieving]

Scott....that is the difference.....that YOU are able to look at BOTH sides of this. They can't. YOU can see the pain that they are in and try and look inward from their point of view. I don't think they can or at least EASILY...do it from our point of view.

No matter.

Scott...everyday....EVERYDAY...I have the same feelings as you. Know something Scott? I'm 6 foot tall. I played 13 years of lacrosse and was a center in football. I have to decide whether or not to operate on people...but.....yeah...I'm scared. I'm scared to death...FOR MY CHILDREN. I don't want to lose it in front of them. Just like you, I've dropped quite a few tears in front of this computer screen..and a LOT more on dark roads in my neighborhood as I ran in the middle of the night.

What am I saying??? I'm saying that we talk a lot here about 'being attractive', 'manning up', etc. Well, Scott...you'd wouldn't be half the man that I KNOW YOU ARE if you didn't have the feelings for your daughters that you do. Tears for your daughters are OK Scott. I cry with you....for my son and my daughter too.

But..we gotta dry 'em up when we're done and keep going....FOR THEM. We can't let them crash us. We just can't.

MLC?
A new trend among women?
Or just a lack of integrity?

It doesn't matter. We need to stop the need and think positive. We need to push forward...FOR THEM. Scott....move forward with your life for them. I support you.

Frank

PS...? prepping a new thread?

[EmtnRllrCstr]

Frank,
Thanks, I was really down yesterday at the end of my work day. I have not felt like that in awhile. I am not hurting for the loss of my M anymore, though I still hurt and get sad for my girls. I guess that comes with being a parent.

but.....yeah...I'm scared. I'm scared to death...FOR MY CHILDREN. I don't want to lose it in front of them.

I believe this is because we know we are going to be fine no matter the outcome. The scary part is that we have young kids who are exploring their world and absorbing the good and the bad. Who knows how this is going to effect them. I do know that the D will have an effect on them for the rest of their lives. Hopefully their loving/involved Daddy helps them become the beautiful, secure, intelligent, compassionate woman that they can be and will be.

MLC?
A new trend among women?
Or just a lack of integrity?

Well, there is definitely a lack of integrity in our W's these days. Then again they have done nothing that nobody else in history has not already done. Unfortunately, MLC, A's, losing your mind is a human condition nothing more. Some of us have the ability to cope well when faced with adversity or temptation. For others it takes a lot longer and sometimes they never can.

Journaling:
Last night I went to the closing ceremony for D5 VBS program. It was at my W's new church and my DD seemed to really like it. My SIL, nephew, and IL's also went to the program. It was strange seeing everyone in this type of format, this will probably be the only way I see them all in the future.

My cousin and his family were also at the church last night. His kids got to see and play with Silly Uncle Scotty(This is what all my nieces and nephews call me). While talking with my cousin I mentioned that I had the girls this weekend and planned on bringing them camping again. He then invited me and the girls to go with him to their cottage. Now instead of Indiana Beach we are going to Wisconsin Dells. It should be a lot of fun. The only problem that this has caused is I might not be able to bring the puppy with. Because I was originally going to bring her along with me this weekend my W tells me she is my responsibility now and I need to figure out what to do with her. Since my W is working 12hr shifts both Saturday and Sunday she doesn't want the dog to be in a cage all day. I can understand this but why does everything have to be a concern of mine.

As for my sitch, we are still heading straight to D. Although, currently my L is out of town for 2 weeks which only prolongs this process.

I learned last night that my W is sending all of our email correspondence to her L. Thank goodness I never told her what my L has said to me. The emails that she passed along were only about my thoughts about asset division and custody. Since she does not know that I know this I am wondering if I can somehow use this to my advantage. I will have to see what my L thinks about that. Oh..I also learned that my W's L is the one pushing for me to give her the cash equivalent to half of my 401(k). She mentioned to him that I wouldn't budge on this. Doesn't her L know that I work for an Investment Bank and understand the time value of money. I guess my W did not inform him of this.

My W is also trying hard to get me to use the same mortgage broker as her since it will allow her to get her loan quicker. I really do not have issues with this although I have a good friend that is a loan officer and I was planning on going through him.

What have I learned about D.
- Divorce sucks.
- Think about D as a business transaction.
- No one is looking out for me accept me and my friends here.
- If something does not sit right it is OK to step back and get a clear picture before you act.
- Put my emotions aside for my W and think of her as an opponent in the game called D.
- Just because I have a perfectly logical answer for my W she might not always agree, because she wants MORE.
- This whole process does not proceed the way either of us expects.
- My W is more then willing to try and guilt me into making a decision that favors her and she doesn't even seem to feel bad about it.
- I cannot wait for the day I can walk into my house and relax knowing that my W is not lurking.

Take Care,
Scott

[Hope_11]

Scott,

Unfortunately, MLC, A's, losing your mind is a human condition nothing more. Some of us have the ability to cope well when faced with adversity or temptation. For others it takes a lot longer and sometimes they never can.

Very well said. Next time, I hope I meet someone that copes well with life challenges not for someone that falls into temptation and runs.

Oh..I also learned that my W's L is the one pushing for me to give her the cash equivalent to half of my 401(k). She mentioned to him that I wouldn't budge on this. Doesn't her L know that I work for an Investment Bank and understand the time value of money. I guess my W did not inform him of this.

If your wife wants 1/2 of your 401k because she doesn't have any retirement savings of her own, why would she want the cash equivalent? There are no tax advantages in doing it that way. If she wants half, you should do a QDRO. Then, the account would be split. I have only dealt with the pension side of QDROs so don't hold me to this, but I would assume that she would be entitled to 50% of your 401k balance as of your D date and then she would roll that into an IRA of her own. With you keeping the house and buying her out, it doesn't seem like you would have enough cash to give her half of your 401k. Plus, your young enough, so you still have plenty of time to build your 401k back up...of course with being in the investment field, you should be able to get twice the return the rest of us can get (if only it was that easy).

I cannot wait for the day I can walk into my house and relax knowing that my W is not lurking.

Glad to see that you have gotten to the point that you know that you are going to be okay without your wife. You will be able to put 100% focus on your girls and yourself and you won't have her watching over your shoulder. Have fun on your vacation to the Wisconsin Dells with your girls. Looks like we both have our well-deserved mini-vacations coming up this weekend.

[25yearsmlc]

Scott,

with the emails your w is forwarding, make sure you keep copies of your own, so they are not redacted or edited. Stress your concern for the children's welfare and begin every relevant suggestion about them, with your desire to do what's best for them...You can also say things like "as you know, this was not my choice" but stay away from being too judgemental in the emails.

Incidentally, a woman I know moved out of her house 18 months ago b/c she and her h were getting a divorce but he worked out of the home so he got the house and the kids stayed there. To her credit, during the school year, she goes over each morning and makes them all breakfast, and each weeknight she makes dinner, and then goes to her place. She has openly dated another man. I have watched her h evolve from a self centered oblivious guy, to an involved dad who has really grown and in my opinion, is probably everything she had wanted him to be. But she has become selfish, and oblivious. Her daughter is my daughter's best friend. This is what she told me last night when she dropped her d off at our house: "I feel like my kids are closer to h than me...I don't feel as close to them....I miss them...they seem like they prefer him to me....and then she said she hopes "h doesn't start dating OW or bringing them into the house...I don't want to have another woman competing with me for my kids..." THIS IS FROM A WOMAN WHO LEFT HER H FOR OM...wth????

I couldn't help myself...I said, "gee, do you think that's a little selfish and hypocritical?" She said, "yeah, I can see that..." (SHE CAN SEE THAT??????) Granted, their M did suck 2 years ago and I saw no hope. But her comments were so weird and blind. Of course her kids are feeling closer to their dad...duh...

Point is, the WAS can and often is truly clueless. I also think this particular WAW might be a bit brain damaged from past drug use but still...what was she thinking was going to happen? And she seemed stunned when I said she was being hypocritical....I mean, wth??

Back to earth, I guess I'm the optimist for you. I think your wife "must" get the divorce, see you as a good catch (which does mean you have to be upbeat and on the move, so keep up the acting skills if you have to) she can co-parent with, see you through another woman's eyes perhaps, certainly through your daughter's eyes...and I think she'll come around. I don't know if you read my post somewhere else around here, but I once seriously considered OM b/c I felt close to him, h was an intern and either gone, sleeping or irritable as hell, etc etc etc. I ended up seeing a chaplain and then a shrink, getting into theater, (GAL) and stayed true to my vows, although the OM got transferred and I worry that if he hadn't, I might have done something very regrettable. Anyhow, at the time, I actually thought I might be falling in love with him. Looking back, I can honestly say that I must have been insane or hormonally influenced (well, we were at war and I was active duty...???)
b/c I had NOTHING in common with that guy (but he did look like kevin costner and my h was working so hard at his medical career 2nd career for him and not one i was thrilled with since we had 2 kids then...he was genuinely UNfun...) and it was so out of character for me to think that way. Of course these are rationalizations but I have to think of them, since I feel as if there were a few real reasons, other than my craziness. But damn, thank God OM left, and time passed and my feelings for h returned in full. I also saw the relief and joy on our kids faces when they learned that I wasn't getting deployed and that we'd stay together geographically. I could see then that if we had divorced, they'd have been so hurt, I could not have done that to them. Actually the original reason I went to the chaplain was that I couldn't handle the image of my kids crying or my h crying or me telling people "I met someone"....

I do believe your wife has these feelings of remorse, but she doesn't know yet that the "in love" feeling is passion that she had let slip in the every day life of a M, and was reawakened with OM and she has confused this with "love."

Give her time. You are already finding ways to GAL without slamming the door on her. As for the day to day problems being all yours, well, only to an extent. She has the kids more and that isn't all positive. Try hard to let HER be responsible for
her stuff when it really belongs to her...don't save her.

When you tell the girls, be as reassuring to them as YOU can be, that YOU will always love them and be around the corner and see them regularly and that they can count on that....if your wife is willing, can you say you guys are taking "a time out"? It could ease your kids into this, rather than presenting it as a fait accompli.

Have you seen a c about this? Some counselors specialize in telling kids this stuff....I feel so Sorry for you. ((sigh & Hugs))

there are a lot of really good women out there, don't give up on all of us...heck, don't even totally give up on her yet. She'll always be the mother of your kids. You have to honor that, but you deserve the same from her.
j-

[EmtnRllrCstr]

25,

I have to admit I love reading your posts, they always seems to ground me. I can honestly say that I have given up on my M at this point. Though I haven't given up on my W yet. I still believe no matter what happens in the end, with or without me she can over come her demons and be the unselfish, compasionette woman/mother that I have loved all these years. My little girls deserve that from her.

Thanks for the advice on the emails. I am really thinking that I can trick her and her L somehow into getting me a more fair settlement. My L even told me that I can lose more then half since the difference in our income is so much and up until all this she has been a SAHM for the most part. It sucks that legally I can be punished for providing for my family all these years, it doesn't seem fair but that is the way it is.

THIS IS FROM A WOMAN WHO LEFT HER H FOR OM...wth????

I know you said their M was bad for awhile, but is she starting to see the light? Would her H even want her back at this point? I know for me the more my W keeps pushing me away I have gotten to the point where I have accepted that there is nothing between the two of us and am now moving on. Sure I still would love to reconcile but at the same time I would like to meet a nice woman that will love and accept me for who I am. If I do meet some one they are going to have to be freakin awesome since I am now carrying around some pretty heavy baggage. My friend said something to me the other day that I hope is true: "Scott you are more then worth the baggage that your taken away from this". His point was that despite all the baggage that I may bring to a new relationship I am worth it and out weigh the baggage that I bring. I did have him clarify this so I do think that I understood him correctly. He and his W know my W and I well. I do not think he was just saying this to make me feel good.

I guess I'm the optimist for you.

I am glad that you and others are because I am worn out. I do not know how...well I guess I do....but I do not have the emotional energy anymore to pray for my M like I once did. I have a hard time seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for my M like I once did....My W has done her best at pushing me away and throwing away the last ten years. I nolonger have the energy to be an optimist. In fact the head pastor of our church is trying to get in contact with my W, I today told my friend: "why? What good is it going to do? I think it will push her further away then it would to bring her back". But, like from you and others I need the encouragement to keep pushing me forward and holding me up, there might be a chance.

I could see then that if we had divorced, they'd have been so hurt, I could not have done that to them.

Oh you must have missed a day of class in WAS 101, they would have told you that kids are resilent, they will bounce back. Besides life is not always going to be easy they need to learn to pick themselves up by the boot straps and forge ahead. I paraphrased a little but this is what my W has told me.

I couldn't handle the image of my kids crying

This is what brought me down yesterday...Just replying to you now is bringing tears to my eyes. My D5 is already having a hard time with how much my W is now working and the fact that we all are rarely together. Just tonight at our neighbors house she told my friends W that she missed her mom and wished she did not have to work. She does not know yet, I cannot image how she is going to take this blow.

Try hard to let HER be responsible for
her stuff when it really belongs to her...don't save her.

This is in my nature and is hard for me. I have been doing this with my W for the most part. For me it is the struggle of loving her from afar or involving myself to much. As this sitch has progressed it has been a lot easier for me not to get involved with her business.

Have you seen a c about this?

Kind of..... This is one of the topics that we discussed with my W C. The part that did not sit with me well is that her C wanted me to tell my girls that I thought D or S was best for them and my W and I. I do not believe that to be true at all and I do not want to be dishonest with my kids. I believe that there are somethings that are better left unsaid to them, but that is better then me not telling the truth. I honestly felt like my W's C was trying to make all this easier on my W then on my girls. I do realize that I see everything from the foggy lenses of the LBS glasses. I do try to take that into account when thinking through all of this.

there are a lot of really good women out there, don't give up on all of us...

This board has shown this to me...I really do not know what is ahead of me but if there is someone else out there for me you ladies have shown me that I could put my trust in her and not have to walk on pins and needles.

.heck, don't even totally give up on her yet. She'll always be the mother of your kids. You have to honor that, but you deserve the same from her.

I agree she is the mother of my two little angels(most of the time anyways) and there is a lot to be said for that. When friends and family have asked me how to handle and treat my W I always tell them: "She is and always will be the mother of my children. Try to love, respect, and treat her the way you always have treated her".

You are right I deserve to be honored and cherished by her or some else the way that I have my W. Everybody is going to do it differently but that needs to be apart of any healthy R.

Sorry for the book.

Take Care,
Scott