It's going to be a bumpy ride

[Trixi]

I have broached the subject about him not going and he always says he *has* to do this. He keeps feeling 'drawn' to move out. In the past, when he would make noises of discontent, I would always talk him out of it; this time I did bother to try because we are both unhappy with the sitch and he refused to put in the 15 hours UA, which even he agrees could have made him feel differently.

I see what you are saying about setting the moral standard. With him, I don't know that I will verbalize it as such--I think he would rebel against it; but if I say that *as a woman* I deserve more, THAT I think he would respect. And once he moves out, the whole dynamic will change.

Yesterday he was sorting thru stuff that really didn't matter towards his move, and I said, "You know- I can go thru that later. You should focus on your stuff."
And he said "Can't wait for me to leave, huh?"
And I said "Pretty much. You are ripping the bandaid off one hair at time. I am deeply hurt watching you go off partying; coming home at 3:30am. I really don't need or want to see it." Him" Ok. I understand."

Then I left for the store and when I came back I said "Look, don't misunderstand what I said. I do NOT WANT you to go. I want us to work on this. BUT- you are telling me that there is no other way and that you MUST go. So, if you really HAVE to go, then so be it." He said he knew I didn't want him to go.

Then we sit on the couch together, he puts his head in my lap so I can rub his back and head and he hugs me.

Then, last night, more sex. This morning, kiss goodbye and he told me that he would be having dinner at his parents.

And yet I can't stop him from moving. His irritation comes when I appear weak and needy (tears) at not wanting him to go. He knows what we need to do to get this back on track, but will not do it.

The ring is back on..for now.

Dom-hope your negotiations resolve themselves quickly and to your liking.

[Dom R]

"as a woman" you deserve more? interesting. I dont understand it, but hope your husband will.

I'm glad you tried that attempted recovery from pushing him out.
Could have been better, though.

You went from, "I want you gone", to "ok i approve of whatever you want to do, for yourself".
I think it would have been better if you made it clear that it is NOT okay with you. from the way you worded it here, sounded like,
"well, i understand its what you want to do, so okay".

(better, would have been something like, "I cant control you, so I wont attempt to stop you; you're going to do what you want. But it's still not ok with me")

His irritation comes when I appear weak and needy (tears) at not wanting him to go.

It's great that you can recognize this. I think this is a really important thing. Probably the best thing you can do, is figure out a better "communication style",and emotional expression style for yourself, that can convey both that you want him to stay, but that you dont "need" him to stay.

no tears, no begging. just love, supported by strength.

maybe this whole thing is in some ways triggered by some feelings by him that you are weak and dependant, and in his selfish phase, he doesnt want to "support" someone dependant on him.
SO, show him you can love him, without being dependant on him.

ironic, in that he is totally acting like a child himself. Putting his head in your lap so you can rub his back?? its all about "me, me, me! take care of me mommy!" sheeesh.


[oOOooo.. maybe thats what he's looking for.. or at least part of him.. sometimes.. .. a regression to be taken care of and told what to do.. that would be kinda sad...]

Did you try the sexual role reversal 180 suggestions?

[Dom R]

hey.. maybe i'm onto something there.

Maybe part of him is regressing into the mommy/child thing.. but the other half resents that and wants to get away. He needs to find a working, balanced, equitable relationship with you; but instead of sitting down together and working on it, and how it would look like.. he's running away to " figure things out".
(except its more like seeing "if the grass is greener on the other side").

In some ways, he hasnt worked on things between you. But in some ways he has. In some respects, he has told you EXACTLY WHAT HE WANTS in your relationship: a strong(not weak, not dependant) woman, who loves him, but still has moral standards that she wont compromise.

If you stand strong within yourself over the next two months, and DO NOT COMPROMISE (especially on sex or intimacy after he is moved out), and really show him that you can be that woman... I personally think you have a great chance at attracting your husband back to you.
Hang in there, and take care of you.

[MaxP]

Agent99,

I agree with Dom R. He does sound like a child in his behaviour and I think being strong and setting strong boundaries will help you and him in many ways.

When does he go / has he gone yet?

Max

[Trixi]

Maybe part of him is regressing into the mommy/child thing.. but the other half resents that and wants to get away. He needs to find a working, balanced, equitable relationship with you; but instead of sitting down together and working on it, and how it would look like.. he's running away to " figure things out".
(except its more like seeing "if the grass is greener on the other side").

I agree, I think you are on to something. If you could have seen him at the bedroom door the first night when I told him to sleep on the couch- his pillows clutched at his chest and him saying "no!" like a 3 year old being defiant, you would have laughed. Keep in mind, though, that little kid talk is a little bit of our conversation style. (We do it to back and forth.) It's not a non-stop thing-- just sort of more like a joke/silly talk when we're trying to lighten the mood and take an argument down a notch.

His behaviour is quite childish and there are many times when HE needs attention and is grabby for me and wants ME to take care of him; but if *I* am in a weak moment and act the same way he does, he calls me "needy". Of course, I point out the hypocrisy--but it doesn't matter to him in those moments.
AND, one of his gripes is that I am 'mothering' him. But yet he comes to me for that on occassion.....Dom R, yes, I think you're on to something indeed!

Max-
He has not moved out. He says that he's taking time off at the end of the week to move. Sounds like he should be gone by the end of this coming weekend. *sigh*

So, if I have an adult/child on my hands who comes to me all needy and wants love, how am I supposed to turn him away? That seems mean to me. (I know this from experience on the receiving end.) If I give him what he seeks, he will resent me later (apparently), if I turn him away- how does that show him that I am open to reconciling?

[Dom R]

how am I supposed to turn him away? ...If I give him what he seeks, he will resent me later

yup. i think someone recently posted some link on breaking out of codependancy.. sorry dont remember the thread, but sounds like it may have some relevance.

But basically... well.. how DO you plan to deal with children who need to learn to grow up?

Keep showing them love... but also help and encourage them to solve their own problems at the same time? and also to encourage and help them to take responsability for their own actions and choices?

Transition from a parent/child relationship, to a partner/partner relationship.. and after the teenage years are over, hopefully he'll respect and love you more for it


I think he wants this too.. he just doesnt know how to get there, or even fully realize that is what he needs.

[Trixi]

Not trying to be daft here, but-
As partners to our spouses, isn't part of our "job" to be a soft place for our spouse to fall? A safe harbor, so that when they are feeling out of sorts, (needy, insecure, whatever) that we are there to hug & kiss them and make them feel all better?

[Dom R]

personally, i agree. that's the "showing love" part.

except when the spouse is saying, "aww, its just soo tough me moving out.. i feel all lonely in my house and want affection, gimme!"
to which point, the response would traditionally be, "I'm so glad you feel the same way as I do! So... when are you moving back?"

said a bit toungue in cheek.. The "professionals" may advice a little less pounding of 2x4s on his head every time. then again. others may say that you should be totally dark, and say "call me when you reaaaally want to move back in. otherwise.. c-ya".

it's not clear to me when each approach is best.

Probably the best advice is to pick an approach, and then be consistent in it.

[Trixi]

personally, i agree. that's the "showing love" part.

except when the spouse is saying, "aww, its just soo tough me moving out.. i feel all lonely in my house and want affection, gimme!"
to which point, the response would traditionally be, "I'm so glad you feel the same way as I do! So... when are you moving back?"

Very funny post! You seem to have "spoiled brat" down to a 't'.

said a bit toungue in cheek.. The "professionals" may advice a little less pounding of 2x4s on his head every time. then again. others may say that you should be totally dark, and say "call me when you reaaaally want to move back in. otherwise.. c-ya".

it's not clear to me when each approach is best.

Probably the best advice is to pick an approach, and then be consistent in it.

It's that "picking an approach" thing. Harley from the "other site" has suggested that I go completely dark (plan b). My C says that we should see each other once a week to do stuff together, talk about things. Harley was appalled when he heard this. My parents have also suggested a different C, as they are not the least bit 'confused' about my H's behavior. He's been spoiled rotten his whole life.

I have just put in a call to a different counselor that deals with ACoA and also 'transitional' issues such as divorce, career changes, etc. I sure hope she has time for me...soon!

[Trixi]

The Divorce Recovery group was.....interesting.

It was good to meet people who have been through it.... I was there VERY early in the process(given that my H hasn't even moved out yet) but I'll be damned if I am going to sit passively and just wait for life to happen.

Hearing them talk about time frames to get over the hurt, though, was a bit depressing. *sigh*

We had a little chit chat yesterday after my Stepson called to complain about my H's parents and how rude they are. Long story short, during the convo, he talked about how he referred to my daughter as his sister (he always does) and his Grandmother (H's mom) was like "What sister?" He says my daughter's name. Then the grandmother (my MIL!) says "You consider her your sister? What has she ever done for you? She just got you in trouble blah blah blah." Nice. Stepson was also concerned that H was being negatively influenced by them and their hoity toity attitude. (Point well taken.)

So, I talked w/H and he said that he doesn't listen to them. However, it's no secret that his mom hates my mom. And, it's no secret the FIL doesn't really like me or my daughter. (Everyone will agree that he can be a very pretentious a'hole.) Now, I just feel flipping tired of the whole thing.

You know, it was bad enough when MIL didn't offer ME any sort of support, but to throw my daughter (who my Husband adopted) under the bus like that. I just have to shake my head.

Last night he said that once he is gone, he doesn't think he'll be back..but he could be wrong. At least he always throws the possibility out there-however remote that is.

I am still torn about whether or not to date him. (Not have sex, just go do fun stuff-if he asks.)

He's definitely a cake eater....