"2. How old is she? Who is her ex-husband? Why is she divorced? Or did she have these kids out of wedlock? Are they from the same father?"
She is 34. I'm 31. Three different fathers and all kids out of wedlock. One ex-husband that isn't father to any of the 3. She divorced because he cheated, she gave him another chance, then he eventually left her. There was a brief fling loser guy after that then me. She always told me she remained faithful during that marriage term. I knew her during that period, and we were close friends and I know she never with inappropriate with me.
"3. Her children are not going to live with her? Errrrr....what's up with that? Do you want to have children with a woman who is willing to abandon her own?"
She cannot have anymore children but I get your point. I have seen her try but she just doesn't seem to have a clue how to handle her kids. The oldest is most on track but confused sexually. Acts gay. Going to college maybe in the fall but absolutely no financial plan (he's just starting to apply for grants/loans). Middle child wants to be a criminal. He's already been arrested for breaking and entering and theft. Her youngest daughter looks MUCH older. She gives everyone the impression that she will be pregnant by 14 with her attitude. I agree. There is some faulty parenting there. That said, they just don't seem to ever stay home and stay out of trouble which is always her recommendation to them. A lot of sneaking out by the kids. Since she works a lot, they are able to get by with a lot.
"4. For now..I think you should set aside Divorce Remedy and read The Way of the Superior Man. Be clear about your own life, finances and goals and, I think, the rest will fall into place."
I'm much more clear than her with finances and goals. I own a radio station, and my intentions are to turn it into a radio station group. I had bought a 2nd and 3rd station but the expenses were so much greater in this other city and we didn't properly plan. Then we had an employee stealing from us and tons of other unforseen issues. Bottom line is that they were foreclosed upon. Now I'm back to just my first which was also the weakest performer of all of them. It's a little disappointing. It's a very small station. Hopefully someday I will be more ready and try expanding again. I will never make any kind of money with one AM radio station in a smalltown. I saw it as a good starting point.
"There might be abuse in her past, she might have come from a broken home. It's not that she can't be healed, but, for the time being, her psychological DNA is pretty messed up."
I've come to agree with this as well. She did have a hard past. She was raped by her father at 13. He used some kind of medical thing to brace his neck on his bed when he slept and asked her to try it out. When she did this he restrained her and proceeded. She's told me about two other rape experiences in her teenage years as well.
It seems like she is pure and good when she is sticking with her church then has setbacks and turns briefly away and makes all wrong choices. I thought I could turn some things around but they were bigger than me.
Close to 3pm Friday and she still isn't home. Even if she comes home, I've decided not to persue any legal remedies or force promissary notes today as it just wont make anything any better (today). I can wait a while. I do know where she works and can maybe send a letter/notice there in a couple weeks or something. I am struggling financially but I understand it'd be petty/needy looking to run over there and try to start something like that today. If she uses the keys inappropriately and I find out, I can always involve the law, and I'll just try not to stray too far from my house/business to leave either too vulnerable.
Thanks for your inviation to talk privately too. I'll keep it in mind.
Raped by her father, and by 2 other men. 3 out of control teenage kids she had out of wedlock, all from different fathers. Married to a guy who ended up cheating on her and leaving her. guy. A string of loser boyfriends who SHE spends money on.
All this before meeting you?
Talk about damage. A good psychotherapist might be in order here. She's a time-bomb waiting to blow up.
I don't think, without serious help, she can even begin to have any kind of healthy relationship with a man.
The only thing that will work for her is to marry a very strong, older (40-50 year old) patient man, who is willing to be father-figure to her kids, and who will share her faith and help her practice it with integrity. You see, by living with you in a state of "sin", she's consistently violating her conscience. These consistent violations cause her to allow other violations, like cheating on you. The whole relgious systems stands or falls together as a system. It's hard to be faithful to you while she's violating other aspects of her faith. In addition, her faith would tell her not to marry someone who wan't a Christian. Her marriage to you would be an act of disobedience. She'd end up feeling the need to pressure you to believe like she did. That would add more tension. And would you be ready to be a step-dad to three out of control teens?
This relationship is a mis-match on so many fronts.
Get your keys and things...forget about the money.
:::sigh::: just talking outloud here for a minute...
Saturday, 2am, obvious she isn't coming back. Her house is completely empty. Kids have been placed whereever they are going to be (I have a good idea) obviously. She appears to have just left all of her past at her house. She owes as much on the house as it's worth so it'll be interesting to see if she just lets her finance company take it.
She didn't stop by to pay me anything so its obvious she just plans on ripping me off (the total is around $2k now for all of you people just telling me to forget it - the laptop is brand new; I'm still making Staples charge payments on it, this is month #2 and I have no idea how I'm even going to make the minimum payment on it this month; I guess I screwed up).
So why do I miss this girl? Relationships and friendships are so strange. I feel like I could walk up to her at her job and say either "I miss you" or the totally opposite "How could you do all of this to me?"
It's still just so weird to me. I understand all of what everyone has typed. I was not her perfect fit. Opposites attract, I guess. She had many emotional problems. But she was a great trustworthy friend for so long and then BAM. The move thing was just so sudden and unexpected I almost can't believe it. I never actually thought that there would be something I couldn't talk to her and resolve.
I was prepared for the possibility of another affair somewhere in my mind for sure when the clues started. For whatever reason, I moreso just wanted to find out the truth and then thought it would be ultimately resolved as the first was with her stopping it and some apologies. Something she told me in our last week was that maybe we should break because she always told herself if she broke my heart a 2nd time that she would leave me alone. I wonder if thoughts like that were real or just what. How could any part of her think that any of this wouldn't hurt me?
I know that there isn't even a reply that anyone can type that would make me comprehend, yet at the same time I think I understand what she did perfectly. I think she knows this guy isn't marriage material - and I don't think there were any major unworkable problems in our relationship, I think she just wanted OUT (of the area; of her life, etc). She's told me shes wanted to leave this area in the past. I think she saw this as an opportunity to get that and I was obviously expendable. I can't seem to stop going over it in a detached way.
I know it will be easier for her because she has the new boyfriend, new area, new lifestyle where I am here in the same place with the same problems staring straight at her house everyday from my window. Not that it matters but you all seem to have such good character insights of people... will I be missed at all before things ultimately don't work out? Am I thought of as like a sucker now or just with total indifference or what? If she did see me at the casino (eventually I will go again), will she feel sorry at all for all of this? miss me? just be unhappy that I am there? etc
About how many days should I allow myself to feel a little sorry for myself/sad and obsess over this girl like she was the greatest woman ever when she obviously wasn't?
I guess there are things I could be doing to get my mind off of all of this but I keep postponing them. I'm just not in the mood for any of them. Part of the problem is that its so hot that I don't feel like doing anything that could be distracting (my home air conditioning hasn't worked all Summer - I just have problem after problem here. I wish I could run away like she did in some ways but I'm not anywhere near that irresponsible. She has a broken AC too but now shes in a nice cool apartment. Almost sounds smart to me).
Today was my moms birthday and she wanted to go out to dinner so I took her to a Mexican restaurant. It was just horrible. I felt sick. I didn't want to be in public. My eyes kept tearing up. I felt like the conversations I was having between my mom and I were so poor compared to the conversations Jennifer and I used to have. My stomach churned and I had no appetite and only ended up eating like 10% of my food. I ended up being a mood killer (sorry mom) and a little annoyed at the whole experience and couldn't wait to get back home even if it was insanely hot.
Okay all, I still need help. I know it's so easy to say MOVE ON but there are just questions I have.
She came over late Saturday afternoon - she let herself in my house so I didn't have a choice to see her or not. Her attitude was mostly a front. She had a slight smile. Acted mostly like nothing was wrong and she was upbeat. She said that she would accept my 30 day relationship rebuilding idea of mine. When I didn't seem like that would work for me she switched to being defensive and seemed to be trying to provoke an argument. She told me she has no new apartment. She told me that she slept with this new guy for the first time when I turned off the phone on Thursday and it was "my fault". She said their entire friendship and her cheating was my fault.
First she said she wanted to keep the laptop and she would continue making payments on it. I said I just wanted it to be over so we went back and forth and she said she would give back the laptop.
Then she starts getting closer while we're talking and eventually tries hinting that she wants sex. It goes as far as her starting to remove my clothing and stuff when I stop it. She tries a little negotation saying "come on, lets just do it one last time..."
I give a louder no and physically pushed her away. That kinda stuff is hard because of course I still kinda sortof want physical things and occasionally now I wonder if I should even just try to salvage some type of physical only relationship as she seems to be suggesting and what would be the positives and negatives of doing so (I would guess the positives would be the sex and continuing to see her; the negatives would be some continue lying, mistrust, and confused feelings, plus maybe depending on the day continuing to see her; I don't know if it would be more positive or negative).
I say something to her about having wasted three years of our lives when she didn't really care about me that got her to stop her persuit totally and wipe her eyes a bit and act a little hurt. That was the only time I really saw her break her shell during the chat then she went back into trying-to-hurt-me mode. We just talked a little more but her answers just don't make sense to me. She once AGAIN brought up that this all would have been different and we would've been forever with marriage. Which just seems so strange to me because deep down inside I don't think she wants that from me anymore. I do think that she did long ago. Like someone said way earlier in this thread, maybe she is just using that at this point because she knows I wont persue it and it'll shut me up?
I said that I had even been considering it and would've tried to work something out and she just gave responses like "Whatever" and "I don't care" a lot. Whenever I would remind her that I think she'd been cheating for months, "I don't even care" or "whatever"... It was a lot different than the discovery of the first affair I mentioned a year ago. There was never an apology at all. There was no period in the end where I was begged to give her a second chance or take her back. She acted more mad at me the entire time and blaming me.
She says she'll give me back the laptop but she adds a twist that I have to give her back every gift shes ever purchased for me. I argued back a bit the difference between loans and gifts but she just said she wanted things back like clothes that shes bought me. She left and I didn't persue any. She stayed outside most of Saturday afternoon with a couple family members talking sortof making herself accessable to me (I think) but I stayed inside and didn't take any bait.
Sunday I didn't do anything to initiate any kind of contact with her. She initiated with me again, but this time I double-locked the door and I didn't answer it. (I actually didn't hear it at the time - I had my iPod on). When I came to the door later, the laptop printer was returned, and every stuffed animal that I'd ever given her was returned in a laundry basket, with a note requesting her dishes, my clothes that were gifts, and a porch swing that she bought me as a gift. I didn't go over there to argue about any of these things. I haven't replied back at all in any form. The fact that her phone is off is making this part easier.
Monday, she is once again at home but every single one of these days she is getting there late. (So shes spending time with the other guy in the morning; shes supposed to get home at 6am, she got there around 12:30pm). She hasn't initiated any contact with me yet, and neither have I. My mom has been spending a lot of time at my house today so that might be a reason.
I have heard her relative 60-70 miles away that shes claiming to go see say that shes been persuing the new guy pretty hot but hes mostly trying to keep her away because he is still living with his girlfriend and new baby. But they are still hooking up obviously.
1) Why does she still want to sleep with me if she is persuing another guy?
2) I know from watching enough court shows I don't have to give gifts back. Gifts are different than loans. Do I try explaining that to her which I guess just leads to more arguing or gives us something new to argue about? Or should I just give them back and ask for things I've given her back (jewelry, etc)? Can anyone think of any positives and negatives to such? It seems to me that would just prolong this breakup. Is that her real goal here for suggesting stuff like this? To keep some kind of dialogue going? I mean, it feels to me crazily, like as much as she wants to persue this other specific guy that we each keep avoiding some final GOODBYE. I tried to do this on the phone the other day and when I got it cutoff, and when I thought she had actually moved, I thought maybe we actually did it. But now I see we still have at least a conversation or two in front of us.
3) I'm a 31 year old guy that obviously doesn't want this large collection of stuffed animals she returned. She's a big fan of them so I'd get her at least a little something every month or so. There are dozens of all shapes and sizes. Do I return these and just tell her if she doesn't want them to give them to a charity or something? Or should I just give them to a charity myself? Or should I just hang on to them for now and continue doing nothing and wait for her to initiate again?
I sortof understand that she is beyond repair, that I am supposed to run, that she is even not fully interested in me, and persuing another guy now, but I'm still sortof interested in her. It's crazy I know.
She told me during that encounter with her on Saturday that I "should have felt lucky to spend 5 days a week with her instead of making this huge over the top issue about 2 days a week that she is gone" and that she has always "been a good girlfriend that would do anything for me". It's just so weird.
When I sarcastically asked her a month or so ago if she and this guy were such good friends why she didn't invite him to her church like she used to me, she answered "because you are my guy and he is just a friend". It was the total perfect answer to shut me up and make me feel reassured at the time. Have I moved to the just a friend column now in her mind?
Out of all of the people that I know, she just seemed so normal and good natured and thoughtful and nice and courteous. I had no doubt that she was being faithful for a large period of our relationship because as I said, for at least 18 or so months when she wasn't working she would be by my side almost constantly or calling or whatever. It doesn't even make sense from the side that I know of her for her to use those lines like the 5 day vs 2 day thing. It doesn't seem as if that is anything like the woman I know would even want. What is happening????
Oh, as for the keys, I asked for them back on Saturday during our confrontation at my house and she said "take them" daring me I guess to try and get them from her. I just ignored that at the time and forgot to ask again later so she still has the keys.
She didn't returh them yesterday when she returned the stuffed animals/printer. I'm suspecting she hanging onto them so we have another excuse to confront each other. Am I right? So do I just drop that issue too until she initiates or go over to her house one of these days and just knock and ask? I do ginuwinely feel a little uncomfortable leaving my house for extended times with her having those keys.
