GD's Dilemma, 4

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks Kat and christa!


Some journaling (get your popcorn ready -- it's a long one),

On Friday afternoon I picked up by buddy after his flight in from Hawaii. We are best friends and wrestled together through junior high and high school (sometimes even in the same weight class). Early into him being here, we kicked around whether or not I'd be able to go with him to his brother's bachelor party raft trip that weekend. I had originally decided not to go because I had the kids (and I had told my W this), but we decided to call his sister (who lives where we would be going) to see if she would be able to watch the kids so I could go on the trip. She said she could, and we decided we'd head out early the next morning (Sat).

After dinner that night I took S5 to one of his friend's birthday parties for a few hours (D3 went too). It was a great time -- both kids had a blast and it was fun to watch them playing and interacting with so many kids. At one point a couple women commented that I've got "so much patience" in regard to my kids. I laughed and said I think it took about 28 years to acquire the patience for anything. It was nice to hear, and definitely helps to keep me motivated in continually exercising patience.

When we got back home, the my friend and his fiance that I usually hang out with were at the house with my buddy from Hawaii (the 3 of us guys all went to high school and wrestled together). We decided to play a couple games of croquet, and BS'd while doing so. We told them that we were both going on the raft trip, and that my kids would be staying with best friend's sister. We tried to convince our mutual friend to come too, but he declined (he knew that his fiance would be upset -- she's pretty possessive). So after the croquet games, friend and his fiance went home.

Best friend and I (and the kids) left early the next morning. I dropped off my kids with his sister, made plans for picking them up the next afternoon, and headed back to the meeting point for the raft trip. There were 10 of us total, and almost all of them were old friends I haven't seen for several years. It was like a wrestler/friend reunion for me (almost all of us wrestled in high school together). I was the last to arrive, so from there we all went into town (this is rural Idaho we're talking about!) to get some supplies (food, water, beer, etc).

Okay: the backslide.

As we roll into town, someone asks me if I had called my W. I said no, why would you ask? They then said that she had called the ranch (meeting point for the trip) asking for me and then wanted me to call her when I got there. Immediately my stomach starts to fold into itself. We're in a river canyon so there is no cellphone service, and I'm forced to call her from a payphone. I get a few dollars in quarters and call. She is not happy with me at all. Here is more or less the conversation.

Me: "Hey, I'm in Riggins at a payphone and just now found out you called.
W: (very irritated but not yelling) "Yeah...I was maybe going to pick up the kids tonight after work, but found out from [friend and his fiance] that you had taken them up north with you and are going on the raft trip afterall. So instead of talking to me about whether or not I wanted them you took them and dropped them off with someone they don't even know."
Me: (pause, then w/ sincerity) "I'm sorry. I thought that when we had talked and decided on you picking them up after work on Sunday like you usually do. I know you were considering Saturday night at first, but thought you had changed your mind."
W: "I said I wasn't sure yet. We never agreed on Sunday for sure."
Me: "Okay, I guess I misunderstood you. I honestly could've swore that was the decision we had come to. I'm really sorry."
W: "You should've called me anyway. What if something had happened and I needed to get a hold of you and didn't know where you were? Plus, they're staying with someone that they don't even know. My first reaction was to drive up there and get them (a 4-5 hr drive). I can't even tell you how pissed off I am right now."
Me: (still calm and sincere) "You're right, I should've called you. You're absolutely right. I understand where you're coming from and I really am sorry. I just figured that if I was going to be back home by the time you would be picking them up on Sunday it wouldn't be a problem, but now I see how thinking this way was wrong. I just felt bad trying to ask you to find a way to keep them -- since you were working -- so I could go rafting, when I was also going to be gone for the next two weekends too.
W: I could've figured something out. [Fiance and my friend] could've watched them, my dad and sisters could've watched them...
Me: I know, I should've talked to you first. I was wrong, I don't know what else to say except I'm sorry -- I really am. The kids are okay though. They aren't just staying with some random person -- You know I would never do that. They're staying with [BF's sister], who is completely responsible. She's got 3 kids of her own, doesn't drink or party, etc. They're in really good hands."
W: I know who she is. I've met her before and I'm sure the kids are fine. (beginning to cry) It just doesn't change the fact that you had no consideration for me and what I might want to do."
Me: "I understand, and I'm sorry that I didn't consider how it would affect you. I should've but I didn't, and I'm really sorry (getting cut off by the payphone telling me to deposit more money, which I do) -- hello, are you there?"
W: (still slightly crying) "Yeah...what happened?"
Me: "Okay, I had to put in more money because I was about to be cutoff. Sorry."
W: "Oh. So when are you planning on being back?"
Me: "Around the time you usually come get them on Sunday. Around 7:00 p.m."
W: (not crying anymore) "Okay, so I guess I'll see you then."
Me: "Okay -- I really am sorry for this."
W: "Uh-huh."
Me: "Bye."
W: "Bye."

Obviously I made a poor choice by not letting her know what my plans were with the kids this weekend so she could put in her 2 cents. I'm 99% sure we really did decide on Sunday for her to pick up the kids though. I think she was using it as an excuse, but she also may have really believed that the decision was still up in the air. Throughout the conversation, I stayed calm and sincere and never once strayed from this. In the past, when W would get upset with me, I would get defensive and even more angry than her, and someone turn things around on her. This was my first real opportunity (not that I was happy to have it) to show my W my 180 and ability to accept responsibility for my mistake and empathy for her feelings. I validated and empathized, and I think my doing this was part of what caused her to begin crying a little (I'm still trying to figure out what caused her to cry) because it helped to dissolve her anger toward me. I know that I did try to explain myself a little, which may not have been a good idea, but it didn't seem to hurt me and I think this is because I still agreed with her that I should've talked to her before making any decisions about the trip.

Resuming trip:

So, after that phone convo I continued on with my weekend. We had an awesome time! Drove up the river a ways, put in, and rafted 4 hrs the first day. Camped out on the beach that night, but drove into town to party for a while (it was "Hot Summer Nights" weekend in town, so lots of action). We all caught up on each other's lives, reminisced on old times, and just really enjoyed ourselves! We got up the next morning (Sunday), ate, and put back in. We rafted for 6 hrs, and when we took out where we left the "pick up" vehicle, someone realized that they had left the keys with his stuff way up the canyon at the initial put in spot. This caused some of us to have to hitch hike to get a ride back up. This took a while, but thankfully someone was able to get a ride. By the time we had gotten all of the vehicles back together and the rafts loaded up on the trailer, we had lost about 2 hrs. This meant that I was going to be late getting home, and wasn't going to get back in time for my W to pick up the kids. Sh!t!!!

We got back to the ranch, and I called W to let her know what had happened. Again, she was not very happy with me, and I apologized for this and again for not calling her in the first place. She said, "Well it happened and there's nothing we can do about it now." I said, "I know, but I still feel bad." She said (with obvious irritation), "It's all right." I replied by saying, "No it's not. I appreciate you saying so but it's not all right." We then decided that she would get the kids Monday after work and that she would call me about the rest of the week's schedule after she thought about what would work best for her.

Looks like I screwed up twice.

I then picked up the kids from my BF's sister and headed back home. Didn't get home until about 9:30 last night and was dead tired. I'm now afraid that my screw ups have ticked off my W enough that any chance of postponing the D with my talk have been squashed.

Going dancing tonight, so won't be on the boards this evening (unless really late), but if you'd like to give me your ideas on my backslides and how they might affect my upcoming talk with W to halt the D, it would be greatly appreciated.

GD

[Not Much Left]

GD
I dont think that this would be the nail in the coffin by any stretch. Yes she may not be happy about what happened, but you did the right things to make sure she was understood.

No way, no how is this what would make her go one way or another.

Just my POV.

[SunnySeason]

Welcome back GD,

(beginning to cry) It just doesn't change the fact that you had no consideration for me and what I might want to do."

My feeling is that all your GALing activities & change in attitude are beginning to shake your W up.

I think that's part of the reason she got so upset with you, your actions are starting to feel like they're out of her control now b/c you're less focused on her (she thinks anyway).

I agree w/CVA, this didn't do anything negative in my minds eye to change your course.

Out the door myself.

Happy Dancing Jazz Hands.

Sunny

As I was editing, I read Nomo's post below & agree 100%....this is a good sign

[Nomopo]

GD!!! You handled it beautifully. This may sound crazy, but I think this may be good for you. You showed her a lot fo the new you!! So maybe you should have check with her first. Learn from it, but I doubt that was what the call was all about. I think she is conflicted, at least a little. I really did. And you could not have handled that phone call better. Really.

Now, I wish you hadn't been late on Sunday, but oh well, and you handled it as best as you could.

Obviously I made a poor choice by not letting her know what my plans were with the kids this weekend so she could put in her 2 cents. I'm 99% sure we really did decide on Sunday for her to pick up the kids though. I think she was using it as an excuse, but she also may have really believed that the decision was still up in the air. Throughout the conversation, I stayed calm and sincere and never once strayed from this. In the past, when W would get upset with me, I would get defensive and even more angry than her, and someone turn things around on her. This was my first real opportunity (not that I was happy to have it) to show my W my 180 and ability to accept responsibility for my mistake and empathy for her feelings. I validated and empathized, and I think my doing this was part of what caused her to begin crying a little (I'm still trying to figure out what caused her to cry) because it helped to dissolve her anger toward me. I know that I did try to explain myself a little, which may not have been a good idea, but it didn't seem to hurt me and I think this is because I still agreed with her that I should've talked to her before making any decisions about the trip.

Your analysis is spot on, and you did a great job!!!!

She said (with obvious irritation), "It's all right." I replied by saying, "No it's not. I appreciate you saying so but it's not all right."

I like this. You might try to let her know one more time how sorry you are, but not by saying it. Can you get her a little gift (kind of like my cheerleading trinket) with a little note. Might drive home how sincerely bad you feel, and how different this new person is. Maybe a little teeny tiny phone (a charm?), to tell her next time you'll remember to call. Or a card with a phone on it. Or a small toy phone. Something like that.

Looks like I screwed up twice.

Hogash. It ain't no big thing.

I'm now afraid that my screw ups have ticked off my W enough that any chance of postponing the D with my talk have been squashed.

NO WAY, NO HOW. This changes nothing. I honestly think it may improve your chances. Hell, this sort of gives you an opening to have the last stand talk I think. When is that planned for? Where's the lastest outline/draft?

Later,
Nomo

[Nomopo]

And I agree with CVA and Sunny (as usual)!

[Heimlich]

GD,

You handled your W very well with the phone call. I actually think your W is starting to realize what D really means. You had the kids. They were your responsibility. Should you have called your W? Eh, probably just for courtesy so she'd know where they are. Again, as far as you understood, the kids were your responsibility for the weekend. Again, you've got a life on your own. My opinion is, she saw that and freaked a little.

You should've called me anyway. What if something had happened and I needed to get a hold of you and didn't know where you were?

Er, why would this matter? She's got OM, right? Hmmmmm.

Sounds like a great trip.

Jazz hands. LOL. That's good for a laugh every time Sunny says it.

BD

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks for all of the optimism CVA, Sunny, and Nomo -- it definitely helps rekindle the PMA!


CVA,

No way, no how is this what would make her go one way or another.

I hope you're right. In reflection, calling her about the trip just seemed like such an important thing to do since it involved the kids and me leaving town for a couple days. What parent wouldn't be T'd off for this? I don't necessarily think it could be the nail in the coffin, but the timing is just so poor that it doesn't give her much time to cool down between now and both the talk and D day.

Sounds like your card to W went pretty well, eh? Keep up the good work (and let that convo about S9 and the trip roll off that back -- get back to DBing full force!)

Sunny,

My feeling is that all your GALing activities & change in attitude are beginning to shake your W up.

I think that's part of the reason she got so upset with you, your actions are starting to feel like they're out of her control now b/c you're less focused on her (she thinks anyway).

I like the thought of this being a possibility. I have been consistent with my 180s and attitude for 10 weeks now, and one DB article mentions that it takes an avg of 4-5 weeks for a WAS to believe an LBS's changes are sticking and for real. Hopefully that means that my W believes that mine are for real by now too, though I still have my doubts because she may think I'm just doing it to stop the D (since D day is coming up fast).

It is really curious that she began to cry though. I don't think what I did gave her any reason to cry, nor do I think anything in the conversation could've given her any reason. Strange timing, and makes me tend to agree with you that this may be more about me and less about the kids. Thanks for the perspective! I love this DBing Think Tank we all have at our disposal!

Happy Dancing Jazz Hands

Thanks! Did you ever find out what "Jazz Hands" look like? Oh, and my dance performance team started learning Samba two weeks ago. It's a tough one, but I'm already loving it a bunch! Within time, it could very well replace Lindy Hop...

Nomo,

This may sound crazy, but I think this may be good for you. You showed her a lot of the new you!!

I agree with you on this, but it is just the timing of it that I feel is bad. However, maybe it will be more helpful in terms of the timing (like you said later in your post). I can see it this way more and more.

So maybe you should have checked with her first. Learn from it, but I doubt that was what the call was all about. I think she is conflicted, at least a little.

So what exactly do you think the call was about? Seems like a good enough reason to call. Also, what do you mean by you "think she is conflicted?" Sometimes (actually oftentimes) I need these things spelled out for me.

Can you get her a little gift (kind of like my cheerleading trinket) with a little note. Might drive home how sincerely bad you feel, and how different this new person is. Maybe a little teeny tiny phone (a charm?)

I really like this idea (I need to begin thinking symbolically -- these ideas are great!). I'm thinking maybe a charm, keychain accessory, etc. Maybe attach it to a small, cute piece of stationary that says something like, "Just want tell you how sorry I am that I didn't call you about the trip. This is to let you know I won't forget next time (or the next, or the next, etc)." What do you think?

Hell, this sort of gives you an opening to have the last stand talk I think. When is that planned for? Where's the lastest outline/draft?

Not sure how it give me an opening for the talk, but I can see how it may improve my chances like you said. I haven't figured out the talk for sure yet, nor when I'll do it. I'll probably kick it around late tonight and/or tomorrow. I'll post it once I've made a new decision so I can get some more feedback.

As usual, thanks for your awesome support, friendship, and insight! And I'm equally jacked to meet the Man behind the impecable DB mask! Can you tell me if there is more than one Marriot in Orlando, and if so, which one you're staying at? I haven't booked my room yet, but I will once I hear from you about the hotel sitch. If you want to email info to me, it's [e-mail]

GD

[Gone Dancin']

Thanks H!

Should you have called your W? Eh, probably just for courtesy so she'd know where they are. Again, as far as you understood, the kids were your responsibility for the weekend. Again, you've got a life on your own. My opinion is, she saw that and freaked a little.

Excellent points, H. Plus, it's not like no one knew where the kids and I were going. I told my good friend and his fiance (who W works with), so I figured that W might find out anyway -- just didn't think it would be as big of a deal as it was. You're right though: as far as I understood it the kids were my responsibility for the weekend, and where does a person draw the line for needing to call the other parent about their comings and goings? Is it a certain distance from town, staying somewhere else overnight, leaving the kids with a new babysitter? I must say that my W never told me when she began taking the kids to OM's house to spend the night (I heard it from them), nor did she tell me about moving in with him (heard that from the kids too). A little bit of hypocrisy displayed...

Quote:
You should've called me anyway. What if something had happened and I needed to get a hold of you and didn't know where you were?


Er, why would this matter? She's got OM, right? Hmmmmm.

LOL! Excellent point again. This was the one part of the conversation that seemed a little far-fetched. I can kind of see her point (if something extreme were to happen), but I was only gone for 2 days and 1 night. Plus, even if I were to call her and tell her what was going on, she wouldn't have been able to reach me because their is no cell phone service in the river canyon and she knows that.

So how are the dance lessons coming along?

GD

[Heimlich]

Right now, going to 3 or 4 beginner classes each week. One at 7 tonight -- fox trot. Learning the basics of fox trot, single swing, waltz, and did a short salsa class on Saturday. I'm alright on the fox trot and waltz, little muscle memory remains from 4 years of karate in college (the gliding movements are similar to some of the katas taht I only vaguely remember). Single swing and salsa, alas, require quick feet -- which I ain't got at the moment. I'll get it, but, ooh boy.

Remember Grease. The Rydell High Dance. The guy dancing with Frenchie?

Frenchie: You ever gonna turn me?

Guy: Not now Frenchie, I'm counting [one, two, three under his breath as they move back in a straight line].

That's me at the moment.

I'll have to work on my jazz hands (that's that little shimmy movement when dancing). Do a google, should be able to find video.

BD

[Nomopo]

You always make me back up what I say. Can't you just accept it???

Nomo,

This may sound crazy, but I think this may be good for you. You showed her a lot of the new you!!

I agree with you on this, but it is just the timing of it that I feel is bad.

I think the timing is fine, especially if you wait until maybe the weekend for the talk.

So maybe you should have checked with her first. Learn from it, but I doubt that was what the call was all about. I think she is conflicted, at least a little.

So what exactly do you think the call was about? Seems like a good enough reason to call. Also, what do you mean by you "think she is conflicted?" Sometimes (actually oftentimes) I need these things spelled out for me.

Oh, it was a good enough reason to call, and the call was definitely about what she said, but IMO not entirely. All I was getting at/guessing at was along the lines of what Sunny said - W seems a little shaken/unsure of herself. I think you have successfully planted a seed of doubt.

Maybe she was a little disappointed in you. To the point of crying. But that just means she cares. And that is GREAT!

Can you get her a little gift (kind of like my cheerleading trinket) with a little note. Might drive home how sincerely bad you feel, and how different this new person is. Maybe a little teeny tiny phone (a charm?)

I really like this idea (I need to begin thinking symbolically -- these ideas are great!). I'm thinking maybe a charm, keychain accessory, etc. Maybe attach it to a small, cute piece of stationary that says something like, "Just want tell you how sorry I am that I didn't call you about the trip. This is to let you know I won't forget next time (or the next, or the next, etc)." What do you think?

I like it. You going to try to work a phone into it? I really like the phone thing, if I do say so myself.

Hell, this sort of gives you an opening to have the last stand talk I think. When is that planned for? Where's the lastest outline/draft?

Not sure how it give me an opening for the talk, but I can see how it may improve my chances like you said.

I just meant that if she thinks about why she was so bothered she may start to realize she isn't over you yet.

Can you tell me if there is more than one Marriot in Orlando, and if so, which one you're staying at? I haven't booked my room yet, but I will once I hear from you about the hotel sitch. If you want to email info to me, it's [e-mail]

Let's talk offline about this. I sent you an email.

Later,
Nomo

PS - Back at home with my kids tonight!!! (So less posting time.)