My ride on the Roller Coaster called WAW Hell

[Steel_Box]

Updating / Journaling. Fair warning this is going to be long!

The weekend went rather well. W got back in town late thursday night (3am) because flights got screwed up. She asked if rather than go to he Condo she could just come to the house so that she would be there in the morning when kids got up. I said sure, when she got in exhausted and crawled in bed with D. I think she meant to just cuddle up but fell asleep with all her clothes still on. In the morning I got up and cooked breakfast for everyone and then took the kids out to run errands and get out of the house so she could get some more sleep. (everyones happier when momma's had her sleep )
Friday night we took the kids to see CATS at a local theatre. We had to pick up W at our friends make-up store because W's luggage was lost and all her's was in her bags. Got to the store and she was there and ready to go. She looked Smokin' I must say.The play was a really good idea. W's idea. Throughout the show W sat next to me and we held D & S so they could see better. Occaisionally she reached over and held my hand, at one point she adjusted her seating and leaned against me and put her head on my shoulder for a period. (WHO is this woman! I'm starting to like her, I hope she stays )
When it was over and we were leaving S&D were thanking me and telling me how much fun it was. I said that they were right it was a really good idea, and immediately pointed out that they need to thank Mom because it was her idea. I couldn't see her at the time but I'm pretty sure it registered.
Got home (mine) and got the kids in bed and they crashed pretty quick. Had to deal with some mild confusion on my part. I wasn't sure how to act; W was still laying in D's bed, it was late and I was tired too. I wasn't sure if she was going to stay, or go, or get up in a few and want to talk, or hang out, or what! I didn't want to change into clothes to go to sleep until I knew sitch. It was kind like a date early on where you don't want to do anything that presents an assumption on your part. Anyway it was kind of strange. I wound up going into D's room and asking if W was going to sleep there so I could lock up the house. She said she was going to go in a couple of minutes so I changed, locked up, and was getting into bed when she was coming out. She said good night, gave me a kiss and left. Overall I'd give it a 7 out of 10.

Saturday went a little different, ups and downs. The day started with taking everyone for a bike ride. She met us and we all went for a ride around the lakes which was nice, if not a little frustrating. Just my impatience of wanting to ride faster, I was thinking exercise - not smell the roses. I need to work on that a little more. I was able to realize what I was doing though and got over it by taking my time and enjoying it, and then taking a second lap while they were playing by the water. that was the up.
The down came unexpectedly once we were home. W jumped in the shower to clean up, and the kids jumped in with her. Well as they were all getting out D started hollering for me. I came into the bathroom and went to help out by handing out towels. Since they were all in the shower and no-one thought to get them ahead of time. I got D's and as I was trying to help S, W yanks the other towel out of my hand and comments that she's getting cold and doesn't have time to wait for me to help her. WTF
I looked at her (I'm guessing my expression was mixed surprise/anger) and quietly walk out.
At this point I'm pissed because I haven't cleaned up due to the fact that I'm waiting for the airlines to drop off HER luggage and since they are all in the shower and it requires a signature someone has to do it. I get her luggage, unceremoniously roll it into the living room where she is standing, and walk away.

I go clean up and seethe to myself for a little while. Came out and she is resting on the sofa, and the kids are resting too. I am still a little grumpy but think I realize what happened. Anyway I now am forced into quiet time because she is on the sofa and doesn't want to lay in the bed, so I can't turn on the TV in the living room. Went and read.

I did manage to turn it into a good situation though. After a while I walked up to her and sat down. Told her I'm sorry I got mad. I didn't want to dwell on it like I maybe used to but I wanted to understand what happened. I think that what set her off was a misunderstanding of what I did vs. what old me might have done. She confirmed that she thought that it was something that shouldn't have happened and we talked and managed to work all the way through it so that we both saw the other side. Of course I was DB'ing but in the process she addmitted that she had jumped to conclusions based on the past. Well ALLRIGHT!

Saturday night both kids were going to sleep at friends houses. When W originally told me about this I thought she seemed disappointed when I reminded her that I had to work that night. (helping out a friend who owns a bar) So, I asked if she was originally planning on trying to do something together when she set up the kids away. She said no she wasn't tryig to set up anything "romantic". I have to admit I was disappointed, shouldn't have asked.

That night she wound up showing up at the bar that I was working at with some of her friends (women) and they were having a good time and carrying on. I wondered with all the places to go, why they came here? I just stayed busy and stayed away from them. The good note out of this is that one of our friends who has been around through all of this pulled me to the side. She informed me that W is really getting "excited" (her words) about us again. I have to admit it was nice to hear, although my response was that "it is really difficult to tell". Friend is also a LBS (which is interesting since she and W have become friends despite being on opposite sides of the fence) so she reminded me of how far of a journey it is for W to get to where she is from where she was. I thanked her for the sanity check and the info. It came at a needed time.

Sunday I woke up in the house by myself again, not pleasant, but better. I decided to see if W wanted to get breakfast since we were going to get kids together and see some friends later. Besides that I had a good idea that she was not going to be feeling to chipper, considering the amount of happy juice the night before. Her first response was ??you're already awake?? it's 8:30! I laughed and said to call me when she got up.

About 9:30 she said she would love to go to breakfast and would I pick her up. Strangely enough, once I picked her up she wasn't really hungry, but was just thirsty, and would like to run to a couple of places. Would I mind going with her? Turns out she wanted to go to the book store and get a journal so she could write down the good and not so good things that are happening so that we can talk about them like we did with the "towel incident" since that seemed to work really well. (I really don't know what to say!)
Later at another store she hugged me and said "You know... I do still Love you". I was caught off guard enough that I had no response. I just leaned over and gave her a quick kiss on the forehead while still hugging her. Maybe bad, maybe good but it was the honest response.

Overall It was a really good weekend and I hope it continues. Although I have to admit that I am still hesitant and looking for the anvil hanging up there waiting to drop. I guess over time that fades?

BTW. Friend also informed me that W told her that she doesn't want to see OM anymore, she reallizes that he was a mistake, and that she was trying to find what she was missing in the wrong place. (also great news if it is true and holds up)

I can only continue forward, for there is no option to go backwards.

Steel

[Not Much Left]

Steel
Ummmmm. You see bad in any of this? I can assure you, everyone on these boards would love to get ILY, hugs and kisses from our Ws or Hs. She let you see her in the shower! I need a cold one myself (shower that is!!!)

You seem to be doing really good, keep it up.

CVA

[Steel_Box]

No I don't see any bad on her part.

Actually the only bad I see is that I'm still waiting for the rug to get yanked out from under me so I am treading excessively soft.

Don't get me wrong -None of my post was a complaint. I'm just surprised. It seems very quick.

[Not Much Left]

It can turn on a dime. The key to this is making changes that are long lasting. I understand your fears. Dont think about the rug part, that is what I did even after "fixing things" more than once, it became a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Steel_Box]

Thanks CVA
Funny that you use that statement.

it became a self fulfilling prophecy.

It has been thrown around alot when describing W's current job that she took to become more financially secure in case she couldn't work things out and had to leave. She took the job a year ago, and it requires a lot of travel.

Thanks for the advice about not thinking about what bad can happen. Interestingly enough I just wrote something along the same lines to someone about looking for the good. Strange how we can see it clearly for others and sometimes just completely miss it for ourselves.

[Not Much Left]

Also notice on these boards the age of the women who seem to be WAW (all WAW on the boards, throw stones later!!)

I would say the AGE is somewhere between 32-37? Consistent w/ 7+yrs of marriage and a few kids. Sound familiar?

Not to stereotype, I am sure there is a bracket for us men too, just always notice it is in that range and women trying to "find themselves" after us men seem to suck the life out of them.

Yes, we do tend to do that dont we. Give me more, what about ME?

That is my story anyway, FWIW.

[Nomopo]

Steel, I skimmed your thread so sorry if I missed some stuff. Here are some comments (some are based on earlier posts, so sorry if they are dated):

One of her memorable comments during this conversation was "It's not every time I go out of town!" OH YEA, that makes it sooo much better.

This made me laugh. Been there.

As I explained to a friend, I have managed to take a small piece of what is left of my love for her and lock it up in a steel box so that I will have something left for her to try and work with if she ever comes around and realizes what she is throwing away.

I love it!

I stand in the very precarious position of being the one who filed for divorce but very much not wanting to end up there. I have reconciled myself to the fact that it may very well be where I wind up and I am prepared to go there if she doesn’t come around, although I would much prefer to get through this with my family intact.

Where does this stand? Can you unfile? In some states, you can't do it later (talk to Gone Dancin') without W's agreement, so beware. I saw you mentioned Houston, so maybe Texas. Next time you're here, look me and CVA and ItsKat up.

At that point she asks if I would be willing to go to MC with her when she gets back in town. - I am still reeling, she has not been interested at all up to this point. She explained that while she has been gone she has realized that I am still the one that she wants to talk to, and that "even through all this I have remained her best friend". Of course I am happy but wary all the same. I managed to (I hope) remain calm and detached and said that yes I would be willing to go, and maybe we could get back to where we really were friends.

HUGE Development. What's the latest? Sounds like your current C is good, but be sure. It can make a huge difference. And you should both go. It's couples therapy. The C can see each of you individually at times, as appropriate, but you guys need to see progress quickly to feel better about things. Period.

I want to have a real R & M with her, and I know that trust is part of that, but right now there is NONE. I'm not interested in wasting my time or money if she is still involved with OM. This seems to be a very quick change of heart and I question her motives (did he dump her and she wants to fall back into her old life?). Obviously I don't want to flat out tell her this, so how do I get some sort of check on the truth. I don't want to seem too callous, but I sat there and listened to bold face lies that I knew for a fact were not true. She did it so well that, in a detached bizarre sort of way, I was impressed with how easy it seemed to be for her. The problem is that now I obviously question everything she says or does. I need to protect me first.

No, actually you don't. You put your needs on the back burner for a little while (including your need for trust), and realize that those things will get dealt with in time. Same with letting the A run its course. If she is not completely honest and forthcoming in C, give it time. She's probably humiliated (and rightly so). Don't draw lines in the sand. Don't play the blame game. Don't try to be the righteous one. Focus only on what advances the two of your towards your goal of saving your M and building a great R.

so at the session she needs to be willing to answer any and all questions I have. I also question whether to tell her that if she doesn't answer truthfully then I'm done, and she has no idea what I know. I don't even know what those questions are yet but I feel that if she is willing to agree to stand in front of the fire then she is probably committed to trying to work on the M.

If you need your questions answered, fine. BUT DON'T RUSH IT! Just tell yourself that before you guys are fully healed, that will have to happen. Don't make it a pre-condition. Why does it have to be first? And is that reason more important that saving your Family and building a GREAT R?

I want honest answers to questions and honesty at the sessions or they are a waste of time and money. So, what I meant by "I'm done" is that if she lies to me or the counselor I'm done with the counseling session.

Not necessarily 100% true. Trust the C. He's the expert (supposdly), not you. In time. Be patient. Hopefully she will be honest, but by drawing lines in the sand you may kill a really good chance to get what you really want. Don't be so rigid. Be flexible, and patient. Did I say that already? All that really matters is your ultimate goal. Not these little goals or ideas of how it has to happen. Exorcise your solutions blockers. Start with a Beginner's mind.

I see no point in going if it is not an honest attempt, and until it is I won't be played for a sucker again.

I think I see now. It's your pride that is more important that saving your M/Family.

I don't have a problem going to C. I just don't know how to reassure myself that I can believe anything she says.

Look, my W has definitely lied in C. She's not under oath. But we're still making progress. Why would I throw that away just because she isn't comfortable "confessing all her sins" yet (so to speak)?

Have you been 100% honest with your W? Does she know about your posts here? Has your mind or eye ever wandered? Have you told her that? I, fro example, have confided in a friend at work, and my W doesn't know it, and would be upset so I don't plan to tell her (ever). When she told a friend, I got upset. I was being hypocritical.

She jokingly said that we could spend alot less and possibly get as much or more benefit having a margarita with a friend who is a psychologist.

I know you know this, but a good C is worth so much more. You need one trained in couples therapy. You can find an IMAGO therapist through a locator at http://www.imagotherapy.com. Mine is great, and she also trained with Michele on DB/DR and SBT.

Right about the time that I was going to let go and help unpack the truck, she squeezed tighter and just held on for another minute. WOW I forgot how good that felt.

that was the first time she has initiated sex in about 1 1/2 years. Double WOW.

Understatement.

She explained that she was looking into options to possibly quit her traveling job and find something here that would allow her to be at home with the kids and work on the M. She would have to continue with current job through end of year but would like to have something else after that.(ok WOW doesn't cover it)

Frankly, I am incredibly jealous (but really happy for you).

She agreed and said that she knows we have some big trust issues. (you THINK?)

I told you you could deal with trust later (and maybe sooner). I doubt she'll lie to you, and if she does probably because she is afraid, not trying to deceive you.

Well I know I'm not supposed to believe anything they say and less than 50% of what they do, but this seemed very honest and genuine.[/quote]

This rule applies to the negatives, the alien talk. But do be prepared for pull backs.

Occaisionally she reached over and held my hand, at one point she adjusted her seating and leaned against me and put her head on my shoulder for a period. (WHO is this woman! I'm starting to like her, I hope she stays )

Ok, this is not fair. The rest of us deserve some of this great stuff.

Ok, on the ups and downs and pull back stuff rom the day together, like the shower/towel incident, and this:

Saturday night both kids were going to sleep at friends houses. When W originally told me about this I thought she seemed disappointed when I reminded her that I had to work that night. (helping out a friend who owns a bar) So, I asked if she was originally planning on trying to do something together when she set up the kids away. She said no she wasn't tryig to set up anything "romantic". I have to admit I was disappointed, shouldn't have asked.

Do you know about the castle picnic analogy? Don't follow her when she retreats back to the castle and knock on the door. Just stay at your fun picnic. She'll be back.

The good note out of this is that one of our friends who has been around through all of this pulled me to the side. She informed me that W is really getting "excited" (her words) about us again. I have to admit it was nice to hear, although my response was that "it is really difficult to tell".

Great stuff, but I wish you hadn't made the comment back. No biggie, but don't dampen her enthusiasm, even if you want to stay calm.

Friend is also a LBS (which is interesting since she and W have become friends despite being on opposite sides of the fence) so she reminded me of how far of a journey it is for W to get to where she is from where she was.

Excellent advice!

so that we can talk about them like we did with the "towel incident" since that seemed to work really well. (I really don't know what to say!)

Great stuff. She is looking for solutions. Do you keep a solutions journal? You should. And she'd be impressed.

Later at another store she hugged me and said "You know... I do still Love you". I was caught off guard enough that I had no response. I just leaned over and gave her a quick kiss on the forehead while still hugging her. Maybe bad, maybe good but it was the honest response.

You lucky dog.

Wow! You're doing great. When does MC start?
Nomo

[Steel_Box]

Nomo
Thanks for your input, and support. I realize that I am still along way from being "out of the woods". Luckily I can come here and "stress test" somethings before I actually try them. Thanks to you and all the others I can get put back on the right course when I get off track.

Where does this stand? Can you unfile? In some states, you can't do it later

You know now that you mention it. I know that the petition can be pulled, but I don't know if it requires both parties. - I'll have to check on that

No, actually you don't. You put your needs on the back burner for a little while (including your need for trust), and realize that those things will get dealt with in time. Same with letting the A run its course. If she is not completely honest and forthcoming in C, give it time. She's probably humiliated (and rightly so). Don't draw lines in the sand. Don't play the blame game. Don't try to be the righteous one. Focus only on what advances the two of your towards your goal of saving your M and building a great R.

If you need your questions answered, fine. BUT DON'T RUSH IT! Just tell yourself that before you guys are fully healed, that will have to happen. Don't make it a pre-condition. Why does it have to be first? And is that reason more important that saving your Family and building a GREAT R?

Not necessarily 100% true. Trust the C. He's the expert (supposdly), not you. In time. Be patient. Hopefully she will be honest, but by drawing lines in the sand you may kill a really good chance to get what you really want. Don't be so rigid. Be flexible, and patient. Did I say that already? All that really matters is your ultimate goal. Not these little goals or ideas of how it has to happen. Exorcise your solutions blockers. Start with a Beginner's mind.

You're right, I know. I actually can look back even though that wasn't that long ago and see that I was still pissed even though I thought I was doing pretty good. I realize that I was still letting the pain and insecurity speak. For what its worth I only let it out here

I think I see now. It's your pride that is more important that saving your M/Family.

Touche' - once again see above

Have you been 100% honest with your W? Does she know about your posts here? Has your mind or eye ever wandered? Have you told her that?

Point taken.

Do you know about the castle picnic analogy? Don't follow her when she retreats back to the castle and knock on the door. Just stay at your fun picnic. She'll be back.

I've seen it referenced and think I get the gist of it but have not seen the actual ananlogy - can you point me to it.

Great stuff, but I wish you hadn't made the comment back. No biggie, but don't dampen her enthusiasm, even if you want to stay calm.

I understand - realize this was made to the friend not to W

Great stuff. She is looking for solutions. Do you keep a solutions journal? You should. And she'd be impressed.

No I had not really, but I am learning. I bought one yesteday and am starting today.

Wow! You're doing great. When does MC start?
Nomo

I'm sorry to say I don't know. Before this weekend I didn't want to appear over eager or pushy so I have left it up to her. To my knowledge she hasn't made an appointment yet. I'm not real sure how to handle bringing it up without her feeling pushed. Suggestions?

[Steel_Box]

OK I have a delimma.
Things have been very good. I don't have any complaints about how W is acting or saying at the moment. There have been a few small flare ups, but all of them were resolved (to my knowledge) at the time they occured. She seems much more open and willing to discuss things as they occur.

But it is beginning to eat at me that she has not made an appointment with the C. She is the one that called and asked if I would be willing to go with her, almost 3 weeks ago. I'm starting to think that she believes we will be able to work through this by ourselves. I KNOW BETTER.

I asked about it once last week, and then yesterday. I'm not going to ask again for fear of making her feel pressured, but SH*T she is the one who initiated this. It doesn't seem like she is hesitant regarding anything else.
I'm confused. Could it be that she is working on everything regarding the present and trying to avoid the past?

Anyone have some insight?

[Not Much Left]

I would leave it alone for a while, a week? Then come back to it ever so gently given she proposed it initially. Did you have a good tone when you asked?