What I get confused at is why people think I want EVERYTHING. What I have on my list is what I consider to be NORMAL. There is noting on that list that should be difficult for a NORMAL person to achieve. This was the SHORT list. There is nothing new on this list, she met every thing on the list when we were dating and when we married. I hate to think that I have to become like most older men and essentially give up on my own marriage. Why is it that people like Mojo and Honeypot actually work correctly, and such huge portions of the female population can not achieve that?
Like "Wild at Heart" says, this will be the hill I die on. Not real encouraging.
Cemar, If you end up single just send me your zip code and I will find you at least 20 single women who would self-define themselves as being very sexual. However, and this is the important point, I can make absolutely no guarantee that they would be attracted to you or vice versa.
Actually, on one of the dating sites I've used, you can answer a question stating how frequently you would like to have sex in a committed relationship and how often you would like your partner to want to have sex and you can indicate how important the answer to this question is to you. I put down 3-4 X a week for me, every day for my partner and indicated that I felt their answer was of mandatory importance - lol .
So you can just scratch that excuse off your list.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
So your saying that most 45+ year old women are HD like Mojo and Honeypot?
Since when does saying "there are a lack of women out there who have high desire (which I think is untrue)" translate into "most 45+ year old women are HD like Mojo and Honeypot?" I think there are plenty of single or divorced older women in your age range who are HD, but that does not mean this makes up most of the 45+ year olds. Didn't I lecture you already on finding a balance and not taking an extreme position?
BTW, did you even THINK about having a talk with your wife this weekend or were you again too much of a nice guy to not want to hurt her feelings?
Cemar - you say your W fulfilled everything on YOUR list when you were first married - what about HER list, are you still fulfilling all the things SHE would like in her man?
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
When my wife went LD, there was NOTHING different about me. If anything, I was doing far MORE for her then when we were dating and when we married.
However, I thing that from her perspective, people change, they want different things. I tend to disagree, most men really don't change much. My wife even says this, her own qoute "Men don't change and all women do IS change." My wife wishes I would stop needing sex and physical touch, as that is really only for young people. Why would anyone think such a stupid thing?
What I get confused at is why people think I want EVERYTHING. What I have on my list is what I consider to be NORMAL. There is noting on that list that should be difficult for a NORMAL person to achieve.
Ummmmmmmmm......
Your wife is the "normal person" about who you said, "My wife grew up as a neglected child. Around the age of 9, her parents split when BOTH were cheating. Her mother was a drunk and did little for the children. She had many boyfriends in the house. My wife essentially had to run the household at the age of 9. Often the mother was gone for several days. My wife had to raise her siblings. THe house was a mess, they often slept on sheets the dogs had peed on. Often my wife had to call realatives to bring food over when there was no food in the house. My wife has scars on her body from childhood falls that should have been stiched up, but the mom never took her to get fixed up. The mom eventually remarried and the stepdad may have tried to sexually assault my wife, although she now says that he was to drunk to do anything and passed out (but this story has been toned down over the years). At 16, she moved out and went to live with an ex boyfriends family. Her natural mother had a digust for men in general, they were the cause of her problems in life, and her adopted mother at 16, is possible the most fridgid women I have ever seen, she has slept on the couch for like 50 years. So obviously there are no good female roel models in my wife life. In addition, many of the men if my wifes life have LEFT her."
Granted, everbody has crap in their childhood or somewhere in their past. We all have baggage and yet many of us can achieve some sort of half-assed "normality". But, dude, your wife's childhood experiences were WAAAAAYYYYYYYY outside any norm. How could that not leave serious scar tissue?
So bemoaning the fact that she doesn't do what a "normal" person (by your definition) might find easy to do seems to invite the response, "Well, DUH!!!!!!"
It is quite sad (no sarcasm intended) that the potent chemical cocktail of being in love seems to have masked her difficulties with intimacy and sexuality when you were dating/engaged/newly married. Trust me, I have some experience in this area too ... and I didn't see it coming either, and felt cheated too. I can't count how many times I wanted to say "It happened 10-20-30-however many years ago; GET OVER IT!!!" If only it were that easy. Even people that are highly motivated to change childhood patterns find it very difficult; those programs pop up and grab you when you least expect it. Psych 101, right?
I guess my point is, expecting "normality" in the form of your whole wonderful wish list from a woman who is likely "abnormal" and/or stunted emotionally in many ways (quite understandable given her history) seems tantamount to banging your head against a cement wall. Embedded with glass.
That's not going to change until she does some real hard, deep work (hopefully with a professional). If I am remembering correctly, she is quite resistant to that, is she not?
Have you ever REALLY told her ... in words of one syllable, no soft-pedaling, no trying to be a "nice guy" or "good christian" or whatever ... how much pain and resentment and frustration and anger and regret and hopelessness you feel about the state of your physical relationship?
There have been some mindblowingly terrible painful discussions about this in my house. So I get it. But in order to heal and come out on the other side of this, you are asking her to volunteer to go through a lot of terrible painful hard emotional work. How can you expect her to commit to that if she doesn't fully understand not only why you feel the way you do, but exactly how serious this is for you, how much unhappiness you feel? Tact is a beautiful thing, but it will get you nowhere except the same deadend street you've been on.
On a slightly different (but related) note -- are you aware of how much you generalize when speaking of men and women? Over and over in your posts, I have seen "men do/want this" or "women do/want this". Occasionally you will throw a "most men" or "most women" in there, but often not. These blanket catagorizations -- in addtion to being mildly offensive to those of us who don't fit into your "women do this" definitions -- serve only to cloud the issue. And subtly introduce a confrontational, mutually-exclusionary dynamic between husband and wife.
All that matters in your life at this point is what YOU want, YOU think, YOU do, and what YOUR WIFE wants, thinks and does.
Last edited by Kettricken; 07/30/0705:09 AM.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Just to add to the "frigid" comment. Speaking from my own experience, I have never heard that word used in anything less than a derrogatory way either. I don't know of any woman who appreciates being referred to as "frigid", that won't be insulted if you refer to her that way.
While "frigid" can be technically correct...I've never heard it be used in a manner that doesn't come across insulting, or as "what's wrong with you?!" Words like that effectively tear someone else down...if used in conversation with them.
Just my take on that one.
Oh and CeMar, we get the impression that you want the WHOLE thing because your list leads us to form that impression. The tone to your writing, leads us to form that impression...in short, YOU lead us to form that impression....that anything less that what YOU view as "normal" isn't enough....so you want everything you put on that list....when that may not be what your W views as normal. Many of us have told you that there are things on your list that aren't reasonable...some of the things are, but some totally aren't. But even though you say you don't want things 24/7 (even after writing that's what you wanted), you still give that impression...so I find it hard to believe that you don't REALLY expect it to be that way....because the tone and impression of your own words that are used here still imply that's what you want and there is no compromise for you....because anything less would be settling and caving. Nevermind that the compromise would still lead you to a happier place in your marriage.
But still...nothing will happen, no progress, no compromise....until you have a really honest talk with your wife, and that's totally within your power.
