Hi there! Well, I was planning to go back and read your thread (parts of it again just to refresh my memory), but I just read your last post and have some thoughts so let me give it a shot.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
Well, new bomb dropped today and I may have set-back a lot of my personal progress.
Don't worry about whether anything you did today was a setback. It's out there, so learn from it but then move on. Don't beat yourself up. I believe that it is the rare case where a mistake we make is fatal. And I didn't get any sense reading your post that anything was that bad.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I asked if she could be honest with me, and she said that she has been having an emotional affair, but not with him. A male co-worker had been going through a divorce, and they started talking and supporting one another. They have met for dinner, but she says it hasn't gone farther. As I mentioned before, I noticed something for a bit now and am a cop so I pick-up on people trying to be deceiving, I'm just sorry that I was correct.
Well, I am sorry about this. Believe me, I know exactly how much it hurts. One very small positive though - sounds like she came clean about having an EA when she didn't need to. That is something. Who knows if she is being fully honest about it. You can't be sure ever, I guess, and you need to try hard not to worry about it.
I will tell you that my emotions raged out of control for about 4 weeks after I learned of my W's EA. I have said before that I felt like I was hit in the head with a ball ping hammer. Disoriented and crushed, really. You need to accept that you will feel all these emotions for a while. I spent a lot of time revisiting our past, and figuring out how this new discovery played into episodes in the past. You cannot move out of this emotional stage at the flip of a switch, but the faster you do, the better. You will start to feel better. The pain will numb. You will start to think more with your head and less with your heart. While you know you are hurting and grieving, be cautious with anything you say or do. Really implement that 48-hour rule. Ok? Again, I am sorry for your pain. I can only say I have been there, and it gets a lot better. The pain isn't gone (probably never is), but it is SO MUCH better and I absolutely can handle/live with it.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
We talked, she agreed not to see him or speak to him in any way unrelated to work until we decide what to do, and apologized.
Sounds like our deal too (my sitch, that is). You will most likely still have trust issues, so try not to obsess and agonize over it. You have to accept that you can't control her. She will still make her own choices, and if she has feelings for OM she will not likely be able to just shut those off with the flip of a switch. Accept it. Try to focus on you and not what she is doing. You can influence your W and your sitch, but the way to do it is by letting her go (meaning not trying to control her) while focusing on you!
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She said that we were friends
Meaning W and OM or W and you? Just curious.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
and she's sorry for hurting me. She knew that what she was doing was so wrong, and is glad I found out because she needed to stop it.
This is good. Small positive, but don't get your hopes up that she is about to start "doing the right thing." Just focus on what you control. You.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
It feels and sounds like S__T, but I think she's telling the truth.
I think my W is telling me the truth too, but I have doubts a lot. It's natural. Be prepared for those sick feelings of doubt to come in. And try to put them out of your mind as quickly and best as you can.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
We talked about us, she said that she hadn't paid attention to me much lately because she ignored me to find happiness elsewhere. She said that she doesn't feel we ever had what it takes, and hasn't tried to fix things or wanted to try.
Yep, my W said that sort of stuff too. It sucks. I am sorry. My W said I am not her type, she was never really attracted to me, and there is no hope. She currently is not trying. All I can say is "believe nothing they say and only half of what they do." I am sure she really fees that way but (1) I suspect she has conflicting feelings too and (2) things can change (but it takes time - longer than we want). You have to manage your emotions and be really patient. We are both in this for a very long haul.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I explained to her that the comments about other men and her ex bothered me because she discounts me, and I feel more disrespected and betrayed than mistreated by it. She said she didn't mean it to come across that way, and again apologized.
I am sure you wanted to get this out, and that is fine. I did similar stuff. But honestly, the more you can not focus on and try to talk to her about what you are feeling and your needs the better because she can't help you with that right now, and it likely makes her feel bad (she doesn't want to hurt you) and pushes her further away. It reminds her of what is lacking. No R talks for a while, ok? That just puts negative associations of you two in her mind. She needs to start building positives interactions/associations between you two into her mind - even if they are about small mundane things. Make sense?
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I told her that I felt betrayed about the affair, more because she didn't trust in our friendship and exhaust all marrital resources for our D's sake before dishonestly going outside of the marriage as if the grass were greener.
Ok, again, you got this out, but I played the we owe it to our kids card and I don't think it helped. It's out there now, so fine, but don't bring it up any more. It's pressure and an attempt to control. It's normal for you to want to do that. I did. But it won't work, and can make it worse (and can make healing your sitch take longer). She has to come around on her own, in her own time.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She said that she knows the grass isn't greener, and the the OM has caused many of his marriage issues.
Well, this is really good.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She said it just felt good talking to him, and the spark and new attention was attractive.
See if you can learn from this what she is getting/seeking from OM that she wasn't getting from you. As you focus on yourself, and become the man you want to be, will it incorporate these things she is looking for and finds lacking in the old you?
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I broke several DB rules, and talked and repeated myself, etc.; But eventually caught myself and had a slightly more accomplishing conversation.
Excellent recovery!
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I told her that I knew she didn't like me much right now, and didn't love me, but that we owed it to our daughter to exhaust all resources.
Ok, you played the "for the kids" card, so she knows that, but don't bring it up again. If she tries only for that reason, her heart may not be in it, and it probably won't work. If she tries down the road because she wants to, your chances will be better.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I explained that I would like all outside realationships of any kind terminated, until we make a final decision, and said that it would take a while to do it right. She was reluctant and defensive about trying to fix our marriage at first thiking, I was trying to get her to do what I wanted.
You do have to recognize and accept that this was an attempt to control her. As hard as it is, you can't control her.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I explained that DBing may show us a way to get everything we both want, and preserve our family while making us happy. I said that it has a better chance if she stops comparing to the past and does it with an open mind, but that DBing at all will help some. I also told her that i'm also doing it to know that we both did everything, and that if we divorce, we'll both know we tried and have much less resentment and a better chance at getting along for D's sake. She said "I want to know what's in this book that has you so convinced."
I generally advise against getting WASs to read DR. (By the way, DR is a much better rewrite/update of DB. Do you have it? I'd get it.) I doubt your WAW is in the right frame of mind for DB/DR to work with her, and you also run the risk that she will view your efforts and actions as contrived and manipulative. Personally, I wouldn't bring it up again and I'd hope she'd lets it go. I got my W to agree to listen to some pre-DB R tapes, and she did about 3 of 12, but her heart wasn't in it and she never finished them.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She said she didn't want a free, college type life; but wanted a secure, happy and passionate relationship. She felt she didn't want and/or couldn't have it with me.
Don't put too much stock in this. Yes, she believes it, but this can change. It will take time, but this can change. Let the comments slide off your back. Focus on what you can control. Think LONG-TERM!
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She agreed to read DBing, and after we both complete it, to either speak to a DB coach or a counselor of my choice. That is the only positive thing about this whole encounter.
Well, it wasn't the only positive. She knows OM has M issues and the grass isn't greener. And there are others - she felt bad, she fessed up, etc. Again, I wouldn't push the book. And I don't think her talking to a DB coach will help. The DR/DB books and coaching are for you. They are designed for LBSs, in my opinion.
But can you get her to see a MC? That would be huge. Especially a good one - pro-M, solutions-based, goal-oriented. Maybe with some IMAGO training too. If she will, you need to really do your research to find a good one. Let's discuss it further if you get to that point, ok? A good T can help a lot; a bad T can hurt a lot.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I broke the rules, am all f'ed up in the head again, but am glad that I know the truth (i think). I believe that the E.A. will stop until we decide to split or not.
I wouldn't sweat the rules. It is what it is. Not too bad. Just start moving forward again. EA probably will stop, but may not. Don't sweat it. Focus on you, not her for now.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She's reading DBing right now, and we are going to see what happens. I feel very negative, and my gut tells me that she is going to patronize this until she can get out. (Though I hope i'm wrong).
My gut is the same, which is why I wouldn't push the book. Don't try to get her to see the light and learn things until SHE decides to reinvest and work on things (which will likely be weeks or months down the road). Accept the likely long-term reality of your sitch.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I would like to get my hands on OM, but it's not worth my family or my job. He's exploiting the situation, and has been through this before so he knows the results of his actions. I know there's noting I can do, but you guys are helping me keep calm and keep my mind straight.
I so hear you. I still envision kicking OM's a$$. Let it go. You're right. It's not worth it. He's not worth it. I think there is about a 0% chance your W ends up with him long-term.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I'm ok I guess, just stunned and in a huge amount of pain. I'm mad as hell, shaking, want to fight, etc.... but I know it won't help me.
I feel your pain. If it helps at all, you're normal. These feeling are 100% normal. Sorry. It gets better. Really it does. Give it some time. Take care of yourself. Exercise, eat right, etc.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I hope to god that she DB's and we work, but I don't know how to trust her right now. How do I get through the next few hours, days, weeks, months... knowing shes working with this piece of S__t. AHHHH....
My sitch exactly. My W and OM share a secretary - both are lawyers. You just have to try to trust her (and that doesn't always work), and then you have to put it out of your mind. Try thought stopping. Don't let your mind go there any more than you absolutely have to. You can save your M, but the key is focusing on yourself. Go read that long post I copied on to my thread this morning. About the Special As If Attitude. I think it may help you. It has helped (and is helping) me.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
If you have any ideas on making this news about the EA easier, please let me know.
Accept your emotions as natural. Realize it will take time. Realize that you will be happy and have a great life (and that you are a great person) no matter what happens with your M or your W. Focus on you. And also, importantly, try to forgive your W. See Michele's article on Forgiveness on the home page. It's good!
Good luck, Nomo
PS - what part of Jersey? I went to school outside Philly.
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Oh Willing!! I am so sorry about this! Lots and lots of (((HUGS))) for you!! I so know how you are feeling! My H is also involved in a EA. Finding out about it feels like your breathe has been sucked right out of you, but I am sure you don't need me to tell you that or be reminded of it! I just read what Nomo wrote and agree 100% with everything he said so I don't have a lot to add right now except offering my support.
All the feelings you feel are completely normal. It will get better and you will get better about controling your emotions. I can say this from personal experience. When I found out about my H's EA I thought it would never get better but accepting that you can't control it will help to ease the pain. Make sure you keep coming here for support. Unfortunatly, there are a lot of people on these BB who know exactly what you are going through. I have found this to be most helpful!
Some more (((hugs))) for you. I will check back in on you later!
Thanks a ton guys, Nomo you are (as always) a huge help. I've read alllll of your comments, and will several more times to keep me learning/ hoping.
The things I can't get out of my mind are as follows:
1: I work in a bad area, and deal with some very dangerous people. An off duty cop just got shot in my area the other day, and guns are rampant. I need my head in the game, period. I need work to support my life and my D. I end up inadvertantly thinking about my sitch, and my mind is far from being alert at work. I can't allow myself to become a victim, I can't get hurt over this.
2: I don't know if I'll want to / or be strong enough to continue DBing if we truly split. If we sell the house, one of us gets a new house, we divorce, etc., I don't know if I will keep this up. It hurts, but living together helps keep hope alive. If it goes as far as a divorce type situation, I think i'll feel it's gone too far and give up. I'll want to heal (to avoid getting hurt at work, live my life, take care of D, etc.) and feel like i've passed my point of no return. I know i'm not thinking rationally right now, but i've had these feelings, and tonight made them stronger.
3: I overthink most things, and philosophize a lot. I have the picture of the unknown guy next to my wife with no shirt in my head and wonder about the circumstances. I know I have to get it out of my head, but time isn't on my side to wait for it to happen. I have to work, and it will cloud my mind much more than anything else. I want answers to questions about that pic, and know I have no control and need to forget it. I can if I see progress, if things keep up the way they are, I don't think i'll so well at ignoring it. I'll try my hardest, but I know me pretty well. This is killing me (as it has a lot of you), i'm my own worst enemy right now with my romantic attitude and feeling that I was so secure in my marriage.
I'm not trying to have people repeat advice, and I do take in everything i'm told. These items have been sticking points, and I don't know how to handle them. I'm trying to act as if, GAL, and no control her. I just don't feel like I have enough let in me with my job, life, family and D. I feel like I am lying to our friends and family, my co-workers don't know why my moods and work style is changing so often, and I feel like DBing isn't doing what I thought it would. I know it's great, but I expected different results. I'm expecting too much and acting too fast, i'm very irrational, and I know it's normal. But I on't know how to ignore or forget, when I have no one to really talk to in person, and no one who's solidly in my corner. This is what a husband and wife are supposed to due for each other.
Thanks again, i'm going to try to sleep. I've been crying a lot tonight since she's sleeping and it's got me worn out. I'll be posting tomorrow.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step... and that stpe is like walking on hot coals right now.
Me 31 W 28 D 2 1/2 Together 8 years, Friends for 13 years S Bomb fathers day 2007 Found out about EA on 07/29/07 Working on me!!!
You're welcome Will (can I call you that?). A few more thoughts:
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
The things I can't get out of my mind are as follows:
It takes time, but you will get better.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I need my head in the game, period. I need work to support my life and my D. I end up inadvertantly thinking about my sitch, and my mind is far from being alert at work. I can't allow myself to become a victim, I can't get hurt over this.
Amen. You take care of yourself for you and your D (and your W). When those thoughts creep in on the job (and off?), just will yourself past them. Visualize a red stop sign in your mind, and then get re-focused. This works for me when I think to do it.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I don't know if I'll want to / or be strong enough to continue DBing if we truly split. If we sell the house, one of us gets a new house, we divorce, etc., I don't know if I will keep this up. It hurts, but living together helps keep hope alive. If it goes as far as a divorce type situation, I think i'll feel it's gone too far and give up. I'll want to heal (to avoid getting hurt at work, live my life, take care of D, etc.) and feel like i've passed my point of no return. I know i'm not thinking rationally right now, but i've had these feelings, and tonight made them stronger.
You will make these decisions later. You don't need to answer these questions now. But, first off DBing is good for you whether you are trying to save your M or not. It's good for you individually and for any future Rs. As far as when to stop trying to save the M, for me it's probably after a D is final. I thought S was going to be unbearable, but it's not. Do not assume that a requested S means a D is inevitable. It's not. Many success sotries around here involved a separation.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I overthink most things, and philosophize a lot. I have the picture of the unknown guy next to my wife with no shirt in my head and wonder about the circumstances.
I am like this too, and have visualized awful things involving my W and OM. Again, it happens, but you can make it pass. Don't torture yourself. One way is to assume the worst and move on. BTW, my W telling OM she loved (loves?) him was worse than anything physical I imagined.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I know I have to get it out of my head, but time isn't on my side to wait for it to happen. I have to work, and it will cloud my mind much more than anything else.
I don't follow your comment about time. Time is on your side for saving your M. Do you mean time lets your mind wander?
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I want answers to questions about that pic, and know I have no control and need to forget it. I can if I see progress, if things keep up the way they are, I don't think i'll so well at ignoring it. I'll try my hardest, but I know me pretty well. This is killing me (as it has a lot of you), i'm my own worst enemy right now with my romantic attitude and feeling that I was so secure in my marriage.
You are your own worst enemy right now. Your emotions can take on a life of their own. You can control them but it is hard. Recoignizing the problem is the start, and you've done that.
I assume she was flirting with that guy wit no shirt. Probably even "thinking" about him. Accept it. Assume the worst. And realize you have no control so worrying about it does you ZERO good. Now, what can you do to help yourself and your chances?
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I'm not trying to have people repeat advice, and I do take in everything i'm told. These items have been sticking points, and I don't know how to handle them. I'm trying to act as if, GAL, and no control her. I just don't feel like I have enough let in me with my job, life, family and D.
You can do it. You are stronger than you think/realize. Look, this is fresh. In a few weeks (i'm guessing two to four) you will be amazed at how far you have come and how much better you are doing/feel. Trust me. Give it a chance. You ABSOLUTELY CAN DO THIS WILL. You are very strong. I sense it.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I feel like I am lying to our friends and family, my co-workers don't know why my moods and work style is changing so often, and I feel like DBing isn't doing what I thought it would.
It's none of their business unless you want to tell them.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I know it's great, but I expected different results. I'm expecting too much and acting too fast, i'm very irrational, and I know it's normal.
DB definitely works. It wil make you a better person, it will make your journey easier (not easy), and it will give you the best (only?) shot to save your M. But it doesn take time and patience and practice. You're still a newbie. Trust it and us and give it a chance to work. Why not? What have you got to lose?
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
But I on't know how to ignore or forget, when I have no one to really talk to in person, and no one who's solidly in my corner. This is what a husband and wife are supposed to due for each other.
You're right and that is so hard. I said that to myself (and even my W) several times. That this is the hardest thing I have ever faced, and normally I'd be talking to her about it. Can you confide in anyone? A family member, a friend? Beware that if they don't know DR/DB, they will likely not understand what you are doing.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I've been crying a lot tonight since she's sleeping and it's got me worn out.
Been there, done that. So sorry. It gets better with time, I promise.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I'll be posting tomorrow.
Excellent. And take care on the job my friend. And thanks for doing the job.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step... and that stpe is like walking on hot coals right now.
I like it!
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Just want to reiterate that you can and will get past this. Don't expect yourself to make any decisions now. Take care of yourself and do the best you can to focus on work. I know it's hard, but you've got to find a technique that works for you. Nomo mentioned a stop sign. I tell myself to shut up. Other things work for other folks. It takes practice, but you can learn to divert your negative thoughts.
Your thoughts are spinning out of control. Allow for the negative thoughts, but realize there are some positives: 1. Your W told you about the EA AND said she realizes the grass isn't greener. She didn't have to do either of these things. 2. You're still doing some things together 3. She's still in the house 4. She has noticed the changes you're making 5. You're not living a lie. You're going through a tremendous marital challenge. Really, what's the benefit in having everyone else know what's going on? In many ways, it can make relations more awkward. Plus, when you get back together, you can awe your relatives/friends (if you choose) of how you kept together during such a tough time.
Stay patient. Stay sane. Don't force the issue. Start doing your best to focus on yourself and not on the outcome of the R. One of the keys of success it seems to me, and maybe Nomo has some thoughts on this, is that most of these relationships don't start to turn until we truly accept that the R might be over and really start believing that we'll be OK if that happens. You can't just say it, you've got to feel it. It stinks, and it's hard, and it doesn't mean that you've given up, but you'll get to the point where you'll continue to give it your best effort but know, deep down, that you'll be OK -- not just OK, but better than you have been in the past few years -- whichever way it goes. I think this removes the pressure from our partner and, combined with GAL, really places doubt in their mind about what they might be missing.
Take care of yourself. Please be careful. Feel free to drop me a line anytime as well.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
One of the keys of success it seems to me, and maybe Nomo has some thoughts on this, is that most of these relationships don't start to turn until we truly accept that the R might be over and really start believing that we'll be OK if that happens. You can't just say it, you've got to feel it. It stinks, and it's hard, and it doesn't mean that you've given up, but you'll get to the point where you'll continue to give it your best effort but know, deep down, that you'll be OK -- not just OK, but better than you have been in the past few years -- whichever way it goes. I think this removes the pressure from our partner and, combined with GAL, really places doubt in their mind about what they might be missing.
Oh yes! Great post H! Emotional detachment is KEY, and the sooner the better. And GALing helps with this and helps keep your mind from wondering to what WASs and OPs are doing? It helps keep the emotions in check.
Will, you will be ok (and even better than ok) regardless of what happens to your M/R and with your W. That is 100% TRUE. You just need to realize that if you haven't.
Nomo
PS - H, i have been following your sitch by BB email updates for over a week, and intend to jump in, but I haven't found the block of time to do it yet. But I ill, and I wanted you to know that. You have been a GREAT help to many others here (incluidng me) the last feww weeks, so I hope you feel good about that.
Take care of yourself. Please be careful. Feel free to drop me a line anytime as well.
BD [/quote]
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Thanks guys, reading your posts this morning I was bawling my eyes out, but your words actually relieved a lot of the pain! After reading NOMO and Heim, I actually felt a slight sense of calm and was just upset, no pain. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I know this will change day to day, but every step forward is welcome in my book.
Originally Posted By: Nomopo
I am like this too, and have visualized awful things involving my W and OM. Again, it happens, but you can make it pass. Don't torture yourself. One way is to assume the worst and move on. BTW, my W telling OM she loved (loves?) him was worse than anything physical I imagined.
I know this (I think:) ), and am trying to think with more common sense today. Something is telling me that if I have details, not of sex acts, but of when, where and how far the OM R went, I can heal that sitch better in my mind. What i've been concentrating on, is the pic appeared to be in a bathroom with a large flat hotel style mirror. The door was open, but I don't know if anyone else was actually there like she says. She was clothed, which is good, but I don't know if she told me the truth about it. Unfortunately, i'm like a human lie detector, and when my gut's off I am generally right. Her girlfriend that was supposed to be partying with her lives in a condo, so it's possible they were at her house, but she was vague that "He's just some guy, one of sina's friends." and it has me thinking there was more. Again, I know I have to assume the worst and get over it, but venting that to you guys just now helped me let go of a bit more pain. I feel that talking to someone who truly knows and understands lifts the sorrow. Saying exactly what i'm thinking gets it out so I can let it go.
Originally Posted By: Nomopo
I don't follow your comment about time. Time is on your side for saving your M. Do you mean time lets your mind wander?
What I meant by time, is I have to work daily. If it creeps into my head for even a second, I may get myself or one of the other guys killed. I am very active, and generally very tactical. (Probably going to our proactive gang unit and SWAT team in a year or so if that gives a better idea.) This has already cost me going to a class that would help me with a sergeants exam later this year.
Originally Posted By: Nomopo
I assume she was flirting with that guy wit no shirt. Probably even "thinking" about him. Accept it. Assume the worst. And realize you have no control so worrying about it does you ZERO good. Now, what can you do to help yourself and your chances?
I know I have no control, sometimes the thoughts just take over. I will try the "stop sign" or "telling myself to shut up", I'll try anything. The only way i've ever known to deal with this, is to get mad, resent and dislike the other person, and leave the relationship. I can honestly say, that I know i'll be fine and if my D weren't in the picture, I would be done with my W right now. The pain, direspect, etc. are enough that I could move on. I don't really want to, but I would cut my losses, and begin to heal myself. My W and I are both products of divorced parents who have no R or communication skills at all. My mom and step dad fight daily (and always have), i've had almost not R with my dad, her mom is distant and emotionless (like W is now), and her father is on his 3rd M and having trust issues again. We are definately products of our dysfunctional families, and she is acting like her mom. She easily cuts all emotion, and thinks it's totally over. She's never wanted this, never felt right about me, married me because i'd be a good dad and H, and thought it would be enought (according to her.) I know what W and I went through with our families, and am taking this so hard because I hurt knowing that D may have to deal with the same. (W also typically dates a-holes, and i'm scared to death about who she'll bring into her life and what i'll do if she does.)
We also have all of our finances tied up in our house, and owe about $20,000 from working on it. I have a truck lease I am stuck in, she owes a ton in school loans, and houses in NJ are very over priced (about 3 times the national average.) I don't know if we could financially get out of this without major probelms, destroying our credit, etc. right now. I also don't know how either of us would be able to get another place right now, as there is no money for down payments. (To clarify, I know this is something to worry about in the future and not right now, but I feel I have to find a way to start planning in case it happens. I have to keep D in a safe place to live, as does my W. Custody would be fully joint, and D is my only concern right now.)
Originally Posted By: Nomopo
quote=Willing NJ H:I feel like I am lying to our friends and family, my co-workers don't know why my moods and work style is changing so often, and I feel like DBing isn't doing what I thought it would.
quote=NOMOPO It's none of their business unless you want to tell them...
You're right and that is so hard. I said that to myself (and even my W) several times. That this is the hardest thing I have ever faced, and normally I'd be talking to her about it. Can you confide in anyone? A family member, a friend? Beware that if they don't know DR/DB, they will likely not understand what you are doing.
My main concern with this, is I would love to talk to someone! No one knows DB or DR, they don't understand that this is possible. The people who do know, are looking at W as being immature and selfish. I need the support, but don't want to justify why I am trying, I don't want to try to explain DBing to them, etc. I told my brother-in-law (my sisters H) about the OM and pic, as he's the only rational person right now. He said I should cut my losses and get out. When I told him a bit about DB, and that I want to get out because of the pain but it's not what I really want for me and not what's best for D, he agreed and said to follow my heart. He told me to do whatever I need to do to get throught this, and to feel I've done everything possible. He's a good guy, and ok to talk to, but generally he'll just agree with me unless he thinks I needs a kick in the ass to snap me out of something. If I rely on the people I want to, they will probably dislike W and tell me to get out as the don't know DB.
Originally Posted By: Nomopo
DB definitely works. It wil make you a better person, it will make your journey easier (not easy), and it will give you the best (only?) shot to save your M. But it doesn take time and patience and practice. You're still a newbie. Trust it and us and give it a chance to work. Why not? What have you got to lose?
Believe it or not, I don't know you guys at all and trust you without a problem. I read your posts all of the time, just don't always reply if I don't think I have something valuable to say. I don't trust many people (don't even like most people), but you guys are a big exception. I feel like we are similar, and like you are genuine. Thanks for all the help!
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
Stay patient. Stay sane. Don't force the issue. Start doing your best to focus on yourself and not on the outcome of the R. One of the keys of success it seems to me, and maybe Nomo has some thoughts on this, is that most of these relationships don't start to turn until we truly accept that the R might be over and really start believing that we'll be OK if that happens. You can't just say it, you've got to feel it. It stinks, and it's hard, and it doesn't mean that you've given up, but you'll get to the point where you'll continue to give it your best effort but know, deep down, that you'll be OK -- not just OK, but better than you have been in the past few years -- whichever way it goes. I think this removes the pressure from our partner and, combined with GAL, really places doubt in their mind about what they might be missing.
Thanks Heim, this is very helpful. I have this covered as of last night, I not only believe that this might be over, but believe that it is over. I am positive about trying to DB for my sanity, and to give D one last chance at having a whole family. I see in W's face that she wants out, and is ready to leave right now. If I didn't tell her last night that I think we should try a Marriage counselor before giving up, and that I think we can walk away with mutual respect if it doesn't work after that, I think she would be moving out and starting a single life.
I do know that i'll be ok, but hurt because I know 1st hand what it will due to D. I am also afraid that I will never trust love again, as I never even knew we had a problem and my W never talked to me about her wants, needs or problems.
GAL is hard right now. If she's not working when i'm off, shes not always home or available either. I can't get back into the shape that I want to (and thay makes me feel attractive), because I always have D by myself or have to work. I love my time with D, and she isn't old enogh to be around while I work-out. I have no one to babysit briefly, because the available people watch her while we're working. (I have the same problem with going out.)
Well thanks again, I look forward to your comments and am going to check your threads.
Me 31 W 28 D 2 1/2 Together 8 years, Friends for 13 years S Bomb fathers day 2007 Found out about EA on 07/29/07 Working on me!!!
Thanks guys, reading your posts this morning I was bawling my eyes out, but your words actually relieved a lot of the pain! After reading NOMO and Heim, I actually felt a slight sense of calm and was just upset, no pain. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
You're welcome, and we're glad it helped! (H, ok if I speak for you on that one? ) Will, the pain wil come and go. It's the rollercoaster. But you actually can control the rollercoaster. You own it. It takes a while, but you can make this much better for yourself. You have to work hard to manage your emotions and those wild thoughts.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I know this will change day to day, but every step forward is welcome in my book.
It's all about moving forward. And you are.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
Something is telling me that if I have details, not of sex acts, but of when, where and how far the OM R went, I can heal that sitch better in my mind.
I don't know. I've thought the same thing. But for me, I'm not going to get those details unless and until she is re-invested in saving the M.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
but I don't know if she told me the truth about it. Unfortunately, i'm like a human lie detector, and when my gut's off I am generally right.
Assume she is lying. Now what's your next best step? What gets you to your goals. Not confronting her. Moving on and focusing on what you control is your next best move, even if your worst fears are true.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
it has me thinking there was more. Again, I know I have to assume the worst and get over it, but venting that to you guys just now helped me let go of a bit more pain.
Oh, you got it. Vent away my friend.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I feel that talking to someone who truly knows and understands lifts the sorrow. Saying exactly what i'm thinking gets it out so I can let it go.
Amen and amen.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
What I meant by time, is I have to work daily. If it creeps into my head for even a second, I may get myself or one of the other guys killed. I am very active, and generally very tactical. (Probably going to our proactive gang unit and SWAT team in a year or so if that gives a better idea.) This has already cost me going to a class that would help me with a sergeants exam later this year.
Ok, step up and do the best you can at work. By the way, taking care of business (GALing in a way) will likely help your sitch.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
She easily cuts all emotion, and thinks it's totally over. She's never wanted this, never felt right about me, married me because i'd be a good dad and H, and thought it would be enought (according to her.)
That's the alien talking right now. Try hard to ignore it and not let it get you down. You need your PMA.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
To clarify, I know this is something to worry about in the future and not right now, but I feel I have to find a way to start planning in case it happens.
Planning is fine.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
My main concern with this, is I would love to talk to someone! No one knows DB or DR, they don't understand that this is possible. The people who do know, are looking at W as being immature and selfish. I need the support, but don't want to justify why I am trying, I don't want to try to explain DBing to them, etc. I told my brother-in-law (my sisters H) about the OM and pic, as he's the only rational person right now. He said I should cut my losses and get out. When I told him a bit about DB, and that I want to get out because of the pain but it's not what I really want for me and not what's best for D, he agreed and said to follow my heart. He told me to do whatever I need to do to get throught this, and to feel I've done everything possible. He's a good guy, and ok to talk to, but generally he'll just agree with me unless he thinks I needs a kick in the ass to snap me out of something. If I rely on the people I want to, they will probably dislike W and tell me to get out as the don't know DB.
If your have someone realy close, maybe your BIL, he can pick it up just from talking to you. Maybe he'll even read the book to support you. Just a thought. Also, give it time and eventually you may meet someone on here close to your home. I've met several people face to face. It is nice. And you can always join us on one of our DB events!
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
Believe it or not, I don't know you guys at all and trust you without a problem. I read your posts all of the time, just don't always reply if I don't think I have something valuable to say. I don't trust many people (don't even like most people), but you guys are a big exception. I feel like we are similar, and like you are genuine. Thanks for all the help!
I believe it, and right back at you!
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I have this covered as of last night, I not only believe that this might be over, but believe that it is over.
Instead of over, try likely over. I use to say I have a 5-10% chance of saving my M. Don't say "no chance." You need hope. We all do.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
I never even knew we had a problem and my W never talked to me about her wants, needs or problems.
How much do you really understand what got you into this mess. About your role in it, I mean? Do you understand W's positions? Why she pulled away? You need to get to that point for this R or your next. The learnig experience is powerful.
Originally Posted By: Willing NJ H
GAL is hard right now. If she's not working when i'm off, shes not always home or available either. I can't get back into the shape that I want to (and thay makes me feel attractive), because I always have D by myself or have to work. I love my time with D, and she isn't old enogh to be around while I work-out. I have no one to babysit briefly, because the available people watch her while we're working. (I have the same problem with going out.)
Keep looking for solutions.
Onward and upward, Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Thanks, man, I appreciate the kind words. If I ever make my way to Jersey (so close, but so far away), I'll see about buying you a beer or 10.
You keep saying you're done, but
Quote:
The only way i've ever known to deal with this, is to get mad, resent and dislike the other person, and leave the relationship. I can honestly say, that I know i'll be fine and if my D weren't in the picture, I would be done with my W right now. The pain, direspect, etc. are enough that I could move on. I don't really want to, but I would cut my losses, and begin to heal myself.
You don't really want to, do you? Making the effort for your D is a worthy goal, and a reason to try. I only played the 'kid' card once because I don't want to be together for our girls, but I think that if that's the reason that you both hang onto to keep moving forward to try to save the R, then hang onto that.
Also, is cutting off feelings for your W really going to heal yourself? If you walked out of the door right now, would you be able to honestly say that you did everything that you could? Cutting off feelings isn't dealing with the situation. It's cutting off feelings. From my experience and reading others, this is the hardest thing that any of us has ever done, at least emotionally. Dig deep and keep hanging in. Regardless of the outcome, you'll be better off in the long run for it.
You're rocked right now with the EA revelation. I remember that pain. The key word there is "remember." Every now and again, I'll get a real twinge of feeling, but, I can honestly say I'm over my W's A. It passes. It really does. For months, I couldn't drive past a hotel without a knot developing in my gut. You'll let it go. Give it time.
Regarding GAL/working out. Have you asked your parents to watch your D for a little bit longer so you can get a little workout in?
And, I've got to get back to work. While sitting on my buttocks and editing a magazine isn't quite as dangerous as your job, Mr. Hot Fuzz, (though the occassional paper cut -- vicious), I understand completely how the sitch affects your focus. It still does and it's been almost a year for me.
Take care,
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
I do understand what got us here, and strangely always have. She's always held back communication. In turn, it affected our emotions, trust, sex life, everything. I wasnted to fix things as they arose, because I don't want to be like my parents. I want to be married for life, and deal with problems not let them destroy us. We would attempt to talk about issues, but she wanted to sweep them under the rug. The problem would recur, and I would try to fix it, again and againg and again... etc. I was textbook "If it doesn't succeed, try try again." As we talked, I would give my ideas on how to fix the topic, and she would be silent or say "I don't know what to say, i'm not good at this." She would sit and listen, i'd talk for hours, and it got unbareable for both of us. I got depressed over time that she didn't trust me enough to talk to me, and couldn't understand why she was "afraid to speak her mind to me" when i'd never done anything to cause her fear in my mind. She said that I seem so confident and like I know what's right, that I had her thinking that maybe I was right and she was wrong. She wouldn't even tell me her thoughts, because she was afraid I would discount them and make her feel stupid. (I'm a lot like Gina's H). I've never yelled, never abused, always tried talking with soultions in mind to fix issues; and never realized that some things don't need to be talked about. I never made her feel like her opinions mattered or that she had equal control. She says that she sensed this from day one, and always felt she was making a mistake being with me because of it. We got far into the stages of being defensive and saying things without thinking, and said some very hurful things (not cruel, but that made the other feel horrible.) We were great friends, but she was always afraid of me being outspoken, and it snowballed from day 1.
From the beginning of our R, we had non-stop stress as well. New jobs, full time college for her. When she started an even harder universiaty, I started a corrections job/academy that put horrible stress on me and hurt her. We fought a lot due to the stress, and lack of time together. She graduated college, and I became a Police Officer. Another acadmey, stresses o both of us having new jobs. She is an excellant nurse (now a high level trauma nurse) but doesn't adapt weel to change. She came home crying and worried for months when she first started working in the hospital. We bought a new house in the middle of the new jobs, and it was a money pit. Looks great now, but we had a ton more stress over all of the work it needed and the time and money it consumed. While working on the house, we found out that she was pregnant with D,much earlier than we had planned. It was welcome, but the house wasn't done, and she stopped hepling with it. My shifts changed constantly, and she went to the trauma floor where she again tortured herself for the first few months. Now, finances are ok, time is getting better, and all stress has dissapated; but she feels like we should've never been together. I wanted more time together, feeling we were mssing closeness, and she felt i was "Up her A". She doesn't remember that she brought up marriage, she was so happy with me, she told me how comfortable I made her, how much she loved me, how I knew her so well.... nothing. She discounts all of the stress and hard times we endured together, and blames the effects of the stress on "we just don't belong together." She has commented recently, that she feels that "she compliments me perfectly, but I don't need her." she thinks that I am so confident and outspoken, that I don't need her to hepl me with decisions, emotions, or anyhting. I told her that she couldn't be farther from correct, and tried explaining that I got depressed because I always needed her and wnated the closeness that we should have.
Thats a lot of the past in a nutshell, she doesn't look at the facts... just makes up horrible reasons tat we don't belong together and uses the past to reinforce it.
Me 31 W 28 D 2 1/2 Together 8 years, Friends for 13 years S Bomb fathers day 2007 Found out about EA on 07/29/07 Working on me!!!