Well in my H's case I think it's because he KNOWS that it will be painful to face many of his demons and do the real work that would need to be done, and he's an avoider to the nth degree. Also for him, actually adressing those demons would (for him) be tantamount to admitting fault (ie I'm right, you're wrong)...and he will resist that equally as hard. His admitting there is REALLY something deep down that needs to be addressed would be like him saying "you were right".
While I'm NOT out to say "see I'm right, you have stuff that needs to be worked on...", in his mind it would be the equivalent of losing the fight. KWIM?
I know exactly what you mean because I am dealing with the exact same thing. H has always been somewhat arrogant (but he doesn't fool me, the arrogance is is total coverup for his insecurities)
My H is a total avoider too and going any further to address what needs to really be done would be like defeat to him. I am hoping the ST can address it so as to help him see it in a different light, as opposed to I'm right you're wrong.
I am hoping to bring the "subject" up tomorrow and see what kind of reaction/response I get from ST and from H - I will be sure to let you know. I am also hoping to bring it up slightly this evening so at least it will be out in the open. He mentioned something about "not needing" to go for counselling anymore but would "for my sake" which is, once again, a total copout. However, if he can save face by saying, in his mind "I am only doing this for my W because she still needs the counselling" then so be it. Whatever works but I know in my heart we BOTH need to continue on this path for a while yet
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
However, if he can save face by saying, in his mind "I am only doing this for my W because she still needs the counselling" then so be it. Whatever works but I know in my heart we BOTH need to continue on this path for a while yet
You can't go wrong if you talk about YOURSELF. As I've suggested before, talk about your feelings, why this is important to you instead of what your H needs, and why this should be important to him. Take your focus off him and put it on you.
Before you go to the ST tomorrow, why not take a few minutes and look over that list of feelings and identify the five or six that are the strongest right now. Then compose some statements that clearly express where YOU are in this, how you feel, how you want to feel. And try to do this without making any statements about how he should change in order to bring this about. Challenging, yes, but as soon as you tell him how he needs to change, the walls and the shields go up, don't they? And then he's deaf to what you're saying. Just talk about you. Let the ST talk to him about him.
If you take the position that you're committed to your own happiness, peace, satisfaction, self-esteem, contentment and that you intend to do whatever it takes to achieve that for yourself, and make no mention of him as being responsible for your happiness, THAT will likely get his attention.
Today was our meeting with the ST and it went very well.
We had come to sort of a stand-still where H was wanting to back off the counselling because he felt he was who he was and nothing could change that. However, we actually got to another place in our session today where H admitted some very deep emotional connection to me and that he had never experienced that with anyone before. ST asked him why then was he trying to sabotage the R and push it to the edge when he risked being alone, yet again, in his life. He asked if this is what he wanted - H said he didn't want me staying in a R if it was not fulfilling to me, but ST said "that's not what I asked - what do YOU want out of this R?" and H responded that he really wanted to remain together and become closer
ST told my H it was the first time ever he actually saw him express some actual emotion and felt he was actually showing some vulnerability
We have peeled off another layer it seems and ST feels we are ready to try a new type of therapy. It is called Emotionally Focused Therapy and we are starting next week so I am very pleased and anxious to see where we go from here.
On the way home, H and I talked about our session and our misundersandings of each other. H said when he told me "he couldn't change and I am who I am" that didn't mean he didn't want to find a better way for us to cope and deal with our issues and he is still willing to push forward and find ways to make our life together better.
He also told me last night, for the very first time, he actually felt vulnerable (or at least he thought he did, because he wasn't sure if that is what it felt like as he has never felt like that before) All he knew was that he felt like that wall around him was starting to come down
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Thanks for posting the links for people to check out Lou, it seems interesting doesn't it?
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
That EFT looks like some good stuff. If he can drop his defenses and embrace it wholeheartedly, I see good things happening for y'all.
Originally Posted By: Heywyre
But that's just the point CE - H says as much as he "knows" what the ST is telling him and can understand it, there is "nothing that can be done to change it" and it's "the way I am" and if I have to hear "it's the way I am" one more time, I will scream for sure.
Don't get me wrong, we have come a long, long way in a relatively short period of time. H acknowledges his main problem logically stems from the attachment theory (even he can't deny that) but this is where we run into his resistence to do anything about it (sounds like another Cemar to me - OMG NO!!!!!) He says it is "nice" to know what has caused all of these problems in his life but you can't change someone from what they are - of course, I TOTALLY disagree with this. I have seen so many people turn their lives around, people I wouldn't have imagined in a million years could have changed, but they did.
I keep telling him how intelligent he is and how I believe if there is anyone that can do it, he can. The response I get is "why are you trying to change me"
So, let's see if I can translate this correctly. "I'm really messed up. I'm so messed up, that she won't accept and love me and let me be unless I change who I am into something better. I don't know if I can do that... a lot of people go into therapy and never get fixed... they either get stuck clinging to therapy as an excuse or they just miss the real problem or avoid the real problem because no one knows how to fix it. And if she really loved me, she'd still accept me as I am without having to be fixed, and she wouldn't threaten to leave me or to keep after me if it turned out I didn't or couldn't be fixed. And I could lose her if I don't get fixed. Also, that means that I'm really, really messed up, and I don't want to think about how messed up and idiotic I am to keep doing this even though I know it's dumb."
The EFT sounds like the perfect answer for him. The bottom line is that he's not "messed up" or "stupid", but that he's formed long-standing habits of thought and action that actually made sense at the time he started practicing them. He did, thought, and felt something perfectly reasonable giving his circumstances and knowledge at the time, stopped paying attention and reevaluating it after a while and mostly forgot about the problem and the solution, and kept up the habit long after it made sense. If he'd never had that habit, he'd certainly never be dumb enough to start it now... it makes no sense in his present situation. And it's not part of the "core" of "who he is", assuming such a thing can even be defined; it's something he started doing at some point in his life and it's something he can stop doing at another point in his life once he sees the situation clearly and learns better ways of dealing with things and thinking about them and feeling them.
And best of all, all of that will come from an impartial observer he respects, not someone with a vested interest in the outcome and certainly not someone that will ever even be tempted to say "I told you so".
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
By the way, has the therapist given any hint as to whether he believes you and your husband's assessment of his main problem, and the circumstances that led to its formation, is the correct one?
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 07/31/0706:22 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
