You folks are nothing but class. No sarcasm, just pure love and respect. Thank you all so much for your efforts, thoughts, and spectacular advice.
Bottom line: You are all right, to one degree or another.
I am holding myself up as somekind of perfect ideal. I do, on some level, wish to punish her for her trespass and try to snap some sense into her. I do look down my nose at her.
To you all I say only this: My S is sick with the flu, and while I watch him my wife is out shtuping another guy with my full knowledge. This is somewhat hard for me to take, but I am trying my best.
As far as interactions go since my last post: She left a vm last nigh while the play she and OM were seeing was in intermission. I kept my S up until the time she had stated the play would be out, so she could speak to him for the Goodnight call. She did not answer, we left her a message (I was a perfect saint, honest injun), and I turned the ringer on my phone off so I could get S to sleep. She called and left a vm 30 minutes later stating that I should feel free to call her if there was anything we needed (I am sure you can imagine how I felt about that). No further contact last night.
This morning she called and spoke with S, I gave her the briefest of updates on his condition (mild fever, actually coughed a little while on the phone with her, nothing too serious though), and kindly but firmly ended the call, stating that we would talk to her later.
As it stands now, I truly beleive that I will be divorcing W on my terms. Could that change? I suppose so, but I gave her the power to make the decision, and that is the decision she made.
Technical Note: "5 the Hard Way" is a communication technique developed by George Thompson within the context of his "Verbal Judo" program. It consists of the following basic steps:
It is a truly last-resort option for gaining voluntary compliance. The most important part is that you have to be willing to follow through on your part if the recalcitrant subject will not voluntarily cooperate. Originally developed for cops on the beat, it has shown itself to be remarkably effective for me in a number of circumstances. I'm just trying not to wear it out.
Again, thank you all for your kind words and remarkably accurate assessments of my sitch. As far as my strategy for the foreseeable future, please let me know what you think of this:
-Going dark (midnight in a coal mine this time, no access to me whatsoever unless it is about S) -Taking an unannounced trip to some far off lacale next weekend (not really about her, I'm just getting to the point where I really need a break from all this) -Continuing to avoid all conflict with W and allowing her free reign on all delicate subjects (such as finances). -Developing a sound legal strategy and implementation program to insure my legal rights are as protected as they can be.
Poke any holes in it that you want, I probably won't be able to hold to it anyway.
P.S. I'm not sure if it matters at all, but, while I didn't exactly lose it, I was somewhat incensed with W by the thought of OM meeting my S. As soon as we had worked out that this would not be happening (supposedly, I know, but I feel that she has actually kept her word on this), however, I have offered no recriminations or impediments to her being with him. I don't know, but I think this may be rattling her somewhat, for reasons I can only guess at (so, of course I do: Sign of true concern for my son, sign of finally letting her go, sign of indifference to her plight, sign that she may have finally crossed a line that she may not be able to come back from). I guess only time will tell.
sorry to hear that the boy is sick, shows a great deal that your there for and taking care of him. the vm's from w seem to be getting pretty frequent. not sure if it is just s sick, i'm thinking it might be guilt while with the om. keep it up, he isn't going to take to kindly to the fact that she is friends with her h, and then he will show is bad side and that will leave you to shine.
as for your plan, i think it is good, except for the going dark at this point. maybe it is needed. i fully think that you need a trip, something fun. grab a couple of friends and go have a great party weekend.
also great with holding back any talk and keeping your cool when she does call, that will make it that much tougher for her to rationalize her actions. keep that going.
VMs show no perceptible increase in frequency. I doubt she wants anything more to do with me than is absolutely necessary at this point, and I take all reasonable responsibility for that.
Doubt I will be taking any friends along on the trip. The options I'm currently considering are: Solo camp out (lowest cost, probably best option), Road trip to the beach (marginally higher cost, risk of a no-objective-met letdown), or hopping a flight to Vegas (highest cost, never been, possible chance to show off my new found "poker face").
Going dark at this point isn't really an option: It's a necessity. I will probably have to see her on Wednesday of this week, and if I manage to get throught that without spitting in her face, I will consider it a major victory (kind of kidding, kind of not).
On the upside, S seeems to be doing a bit better. I took him to the mall earlier, and to one of his favorite stores. Even got him a small gift, he really seems to like it. As for tonight, I'm gonna take him out to dinner someplace new to him, not sure where yet. Tomorrow, if he is up to it (and I think he will be), we are going to a major local attraction that W and I have been to once, and had planned on taking S to before she laid waste to the family we could have been (yes, I'm blaming: Cut me a little slack, okay?).
As an aside, during this morning's call I heard her tell S that she was at MIL's house. For some reason, I can't seem to get that out of my head. I don't want to care, but: Did she lie to S? Is she staying there while OM is in town? If so, why? Is OM staying there?
don't let the, where is she staying, wrap the noodle into a knot.
i'm big believer in a little vegas. you kind hotels close to the strip without the strip price if money is an option. whatever you do, don't play poker during the day with the seniors, they will clean you out faster then they can back a car up without looking.
i love to get out on the solo camping trip once i a while as well. helps me think and puts a lot in perspective. either would be a great option. i guess it comes down to what do you want your mind doing, thinking or going omg did i just bet...who is that?
Good tips, Atlas. As always. As to the trip, I think camping is probably the strong front runner (although S and I spent some time looking at kayaks today, so maybe camping with a twist?)
Unfortunately, the noodle scratcher just keeps getting to me:
Just got S to sleep, goodnight call was, well, I don't know. I kept my cool, hope I didn't seem to be playing at anything. S told W about his day, said he had a lot of fun, told her he had sushi for dinner (he never has before, I'm a huge fan, W not so much). When asked, I told her we were going to the local attraction mentioned above tomorrow, also that his condition is stable/improving (in regards to his flu bug). No idea how she took any of the information, but my brain keeps ticking on this one thing: She again told S that she was at MIL's house.
This has to mean one of the following: 1. She is lying to S. (Unfortunately, this is probably the easisest explanation for me to buy.) 2. OM is staying at MIL's. (This one just doesn't really add up for me: She was always kind of wierd about any kind of romantic affection when any of her family was present, MIL's house is pretty short on what you would call "conjugal facilities", step-FIL may love me or hate me but I doubt he would play along with something like that, etc...) 3. Something happened between OM and W last night.
The last one is probably wishful thinking on my part, I admit. It's a longshot, to be sure, but there are a couple of reasons I left it on the list.
In any case, at 8:45pm on a Saturday night in a happening burg like this, what is she doing at MIL's house, OM or not?
ok, let me hit the 123 in the order of what i think is most unlikely to most likely.
2. no way in hell, is this happening. in laws know things are tough and may be disappointed in you or have some harsh feelings right now. but i can't think of too many people, excluding jerry springer, that would allow this type of crap.
1. she isn't lying to you, she is lying to s. that is bad. but she could be doing it to protect him, if she is that shows she knows what she is doing is wrong. if she is using him as a medium, then you got bigger issues, back to the family meeting for s's benefit. i doubt she is using him as the medium, and if she was, what does that message say. it says, i don't want to hurt wc, which means there are feeling. so either way not likely and either way looks good.
3. i don't know if something necessarily happened, but at the least she may not feel comfortable spending the night with him at this point. but no guy is going to take that for too long, so that is a good thing. remember, the a will go south, it will bust and if your there standing in the good light then awesome. now if something did happen, well i tip my glass to you, because she will realize that she has a good thing with you, hopefully.
Here's some more spew, even though I should be in bed already.
-I think I have discussed S's obsession with W's garage door being "broken", and how I think that is as close as he can come to voicing his real questions about what the hell is going on. Tonight after dinner, he asked if her garage was still broken, but I goofed and answered that she would have to fix it, rather than my standard answer that he and I can fix it if we really try (I'm worried that the strain is really starting to get to me, and by worrying about it I'm probably making it worse). Anyway, when I told him that she would have to fix it, he immediately got apprehensive and said that W doesn't have any tools. I was still kind of elsewhere, sort of playing the game from my own hurt more than anything else, and I agreed with his statement. He then asked what was the matter with me. Big wake up call. I immediately reassured him, got him laughing, and silently berated myslef for the slip.
-One of my biggest problems, and one that I may not be able to recover from, is that I really was doing well, and then blew it. I'm not sure how much detail I went into about it, because I'm really kind of ashamed of myself, but on July 5th I got the call that I had been working towards for months. I mean, she was right there, telling me how sorry she was, trying to feel out whether or not I was still willing to try and work things out, all that stuff. I played it really cool, up until I recounted a story about S and let my emotions slip into the action a little. Next thing I know, I'm right back to grilling her about her plans, crucifying her for her crimes, basically just making a mess of things again. This allowed her to hit the delete button on all the progress I had made, and I could just kick myself for it. Still trying to get over it, but it is hard: Having trouble keeping up the workout regimen I was doing so well with, I've basically returned to smoking at my previous level, trouble sleeping again, all that stuff. Even screwing up at work more than I was. Poop.
-In the above post, I made reference to there being a couple of reasons why I think OM and her amy have had a falling out. I don't think I have covered this previously, but very early on (Pre-DR), she was supposed to take a trip with her father and step-mother to see her cousin get married. I was to watch S for the weekend, but at the absolute last minute she told me that she would not be going, would be keeping S, and I could basically go jump in a lake because I had threatened to some how "keep" S. She claimed that I had told MIL that W could visit with S sometime, a serious mangling of my words (no such threat was made or even considered, and is truly ludicrous from the outset). I didn't even bother defending myself for long, just asked W if she had seen a doctor/counselor yet (a very hot issue at the time). When she got defensive, I merely hung up on her, went home, started looking for lawyers, and accepted a neighbors invitation to assist in a community project the next day. The next day, I participated in the project, came home and did some yard work, and W calls to see if she and S can come by. I understood very little about DB at the time, but I had definitely pulled off a real coup by just stepping outside of the fight. I know this is really long, but stay with me: A couple of weeks later, during W's first trip to see OM, MIL called me fishing for answers as she was worried about W (also, I think W may have put her up to it, as I had already kind of figured out what was going on, and given W reason to believe that). During that call, I brought up the accusation that W had made regarding the earlier trip, and MIL's role in it. She of course had her own reasons to be defensive about it, but she seemed genuinely shocked by my story and said that W had claimed she "just couldn't face sharing a hotel room with her father and step-mother for the weekend". Nobody is telling a lot of truth these days, but I think that was a lot closer to it than anything W had said to me. Now, here's the real turd in the punchbowl: Dangerous, overly motivated, and willing-to-fight-dirty me had done some research into some of W's traits and behaviors and made a diagnosis that was really beyond any kind of credentials I can claim. I found a book by one of Michelle's colleagues (remember, at the time I was just spinning in desperation, had never even heard of Michelle) named Pat Love, author of "The Truth about Love". This book, however, was titled "The Emotional Incest Syndrome", and covered W like it was written about her. The book confirmed my (already pretty fully developed)suspicions regarding W's unhealthy fixation on her father. Now, I had no business whatsoever acting in such a capacity, but I just plain desperate and scared. Without thinking, I told W (prior to the wedding trip) that whenever she saw any signs of affection from her step-mother to her Father that the feeling she would get in the small of her back, pit of her stomach, or across her chest was her concious moral forebrain overriding an emotional response from her limbic regions. She didn't really understand what I was talking about, probably doesn't even know what the worf "limbic" means, but I think I pretty much zeroed a feeling that she was well familiar with. I think it scared her pretty badly, too. None of this makes me any more attractive to her, I know, but during one of the recent calls I think I probably let a little too much slip about the feelings/doubts she was already having about OM, but had not yet admitted to herself. Some of it was probably pretty harsh, too, but no less acurate. Now, she will never, ever, admit to me that I was in any way "right" in either circumstance, but I'm starting to appreciate how hard it is for her to truly ignore the things I say.
That, or I'm just as crazy and self-aggrandizing as I fear.
Either way, I'm going to bed. Tomorrow's gonna be great. I'm gonna see to that.
man you are deep. i love reading it and like nomo said once, it would be a great time to pick your brain over drinks, i would pay for sure.
the garage door thing sucks, i know how that goes. i told w "whatever" earlier today on the phone. it was the old me peaking through, luckily i recovered and said any way you like it i'll make it happen. close call. you hit these times were your thinking and get lost in the thought, and then someone comes along and asks you a question, instead of focusing on them and setting the thought down you just let the brain run. i've been working really hard with w, s, family, friends, co-workers, etc... that when i'm spoken too my attention is required. it has really helped out in a lot of aspect in life. especially at work, after the two weeks i originally had, hell i would have fired my back side by now.
as for the trip, i think camping is what is called for. reason is, i think you need to take a list of questions, from db, from yourself, any other source you have and really spend some time thinking through them and then act on them.
good luck. tell me you fish, i do that too much, part of what killed our relationship. can't get enought, fly, bait whenever i'm near the ocean, all kinds. guess that's why i golf in the low 90's.
OK, Atlas, I'm going to send you 40 bucks to buy a new keyboard
WC, you are a stronger man than I. I can't even imagine thinking about trying to get my W back while she was in the midst of an A. I was able to forgive once, but would not have been able to watch her ping between me and someone else. Dude, seriously, kudos.
My vote on your 3 alternatives is that she's probably lying to protect your boy. That's OK. Really. She's h is mom. You don't want to poison him towards her and she, I'm sure, doesn't want to do anything to confuse him further.
That said, you know what, maybe nothing happened. It's possible.
Go camping. Commune with nature. Fish. Hunt (OK, it's not hunting season yet, I don't think. Hell, you gotta get up too early to go hunting.) Or, as Atlas says, think about what you want.
If Nomo, Atlas, and myself ever got you in the same bar at the same time, methinks you would be hammered by the time the bar closed.
I got nothing else. Just wanted to voice some support for you. Hang in there.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
No fishing to speak of, though a friend of ine is trying to get me into it. I only hunt with a camera, but that's a lot tougher than you might think.
As to W's answers s to her whereabouts: During this morning's check in, S asked her where she was. She answered that she was at MIL's. S, no slouch in the brain department, caught the evasion and asked again. She simply did not answer, just moved on to other subjects.
Heimlich, no kudos needed. I'm past my limit. I'm keeping my cool for S's sake, and for my own sense of what is right for me to do. I am not, however, actively working to save my marriage any longer.
Kick me off the board if you want, but I'm gonna have to follow Michele's advice about there being life after divorce.
