Sheer physicality

[MJontheMend]

don't want sex to be FOR me. I don't want sex GIVEN to me. I want her to TAKE sex from me because she gets pleasure from GIVING pleasure. THIS IS PASSION!!! THIS IS REAL DESIRE!

Cemar, there is something about you that I love. Around 90% of the time I am in league with the rest of the BB in just wanting to shake you out of you stubborn shell but every once in a while you say something that I either have to agree with or question my own sexuality.

Anyway, a bunch of stuff has been brewing around in my brain and a big old essay is getting ready to pop out and I am going to dedicate it to you, Cemar, even though you may obstinately refuse to accept anything I say in it.

An Old Grudge and a New Animal
**************************************************************

Why is it the case that if a woman says "Lick my p*ssy." it is usually agreeable to her male companion but if a man says "Suck my c*ck." most women are turned off? I will return to this question at the end of my essay.

I have been harboring a grudge against one of the members of this BB. Mostly I love him (in a therapy group kind of way) but something he said to me once seriously p*ssed me off and has been lingering in my psyche like a burr in my panties. Perhaps one of the more energetic archivists can find the exact post but as I recall the exchange went something like this:

MJ: If I ever find the man who can "top my top" the sexual heat will scorch the ground beneath us.

BF: YOU will never find a man to "top your top" because you will always challenge further in an attempt to "test" his masculinity.

Anyways, I found this quite depressing because I couldn't quite dismiss it as false although I knew that it wasn't exactly true either. I didn't really "get" what BF was saying and I wasn't self-aware enough to form a cogent response. I kind of felt like some of NOP's comments along the lines of "If a woman wants to be sexually assertive, I consider it a point of pride to meet her needs in that regard also." were supportive of my position but not exactly what I was trying to express. Recently, due to interactions with my current lover and unbeknownst-to-him sexual therapist, "Lance", and some stuff I've been reading and some stuff posted recently, I decided that BF and I were both right and I had a revelation that may be useful to many members of this BB or at least amusing to some.

I agreed with the advice that BF offered to the HDM. Placating, leadership-lacking, passive-aggressive "nice guy" behavior is never going to get a woman's engine running and it might stop it cold. However, I disagreed with or didn't understand the advice he was offering to me and the other HDW and now I know why. I was stuck in a mental rut that was telling me that top=masculine and bottom=feminine. However, I think it may be the case that he was stuck in the other side of the same rut and that was why we were both half wrong. I couldn't comprehend or accept a feminine top and he couldn't comprehend or accept a masculine bottom.

I can be quite sexually assertive. I will "f*ck" a man if he lets me. This doesn't mean that I want to put on a strap-on or do anything particularly kinky. It's more psychological than activity oriented. If I am having straight-up missionary position sex with a man but my mind-set is that I am trying to make him orgasm then I am f*cking him. Lance doesn't let me f*ck him very much so I feel like he "tops my top" a lot. Lance is not threatened by my behavior but he doesn't surrender to it very often either. The exact interaction that let me know that BF was half right and I was half right was when I started "f*cking" Lance and he grinned confidently at me like he found my behavior infinitely amusing and said "Hey, I'm the man." and pinned my *ss down. So, my point is that I was right because there are men who will "know" to "top my top" and I will raise the white flag ( I should note that Lance does let me "f*ck" him if I make it clear that that is what I want. Psychologically, it's kind of like he humors me in that regard. Although of course he enjoys it and falls off the bed and stuff.)but BF was also right because it's pretty clear that most men will see that type of behavior as me acting like a boy and therefore maybe have unfortunate reactions. In my mind, when I act like that I am just acting like either someone who is really horny or someone who wants to get their partner off so to me it seems like this should be behavior that would turn somebody on or get somebody off and therefore it is positive sexual behavior. However, I can now see how it would be viewed as masculine behavior and therefore it could be a turn-off or threatening or elicit a "feminine" response from a man who wasn't feeling super confident. Lance is pretty darn confident because his body works well sexually, he is experienced and probably also because he has that Deida thing going for him because he is successful/admired in his profession.

Okay, on to the new animal. What is the difference between being sexually demanding and being sexually assertive? I think the answer is that many LDW are sexually demanding but not sexually assertive. I am frequently sexually assertive but not usually sexually demanding. My new animal is based on my new theory that the feminine "top" is sexually demanding. I tried to come up with another animal but I think that we pretty much have to call her the "b*tch" (I am definitely not trying to insult any LDW by using this name. You will see that I am putting a positive spin on the word.) The "b*tch" is very attractive to the masculine "bottom". I might be being redundant but I want to clearly make the point that the masculine "bottom" is not feminine. The masculine "bottom" is not the same as the feminine "bottom". My evidence is the answer to the question I asked at the top of the essay. The masculine bottom wants to do stuff for the feminine top. The feminine bottom wants the masculine top to do stuff to her. ( I should note here that I am talking about gender roles not innate sexual differences. Obviously, I act like a masculine top fairly frequently but I am a girl and everyone wants to do stuff and have stuff done to them etc.) IMO, it is totally natural for men to be turned on by feminine top behavior. Unfortunately, women are generally turned off my masculine bottom behavior although they frequently unconsciously promote it. The thing about me is that I almost never engage in feminine top-like behavior except during actual sex. This is probably because I had a poor relationship with my mother who was a very demanding woman. I've always seen asking or letting other people do things for me as "weak" or "bad" behavior. I now see that attitude was very stupid and short-sighted and lacking in awareness. Finally, it was like a lightbulb came on for me. When I tried to be less sexually assertive because I thought that was what BF and others were recommending that I should do, I couldn't stand it because I couldn't understand how I could possibly get anything I wanted or have a sex drive if I just became passive and confined myself to being sexually responsive. Now I'm beginning to see that there is the option of asking someone to give you something rather than just going out and getting it yourself. Pretty scary stuff for me. I felt like an alien had inhabited my body the other day when I "made" Lance go get me coffee in the morning because he had none in his house after an all night f*ckfest. My b*tch muscle is more pathetically underdeveloped than my triceps. I wonder if there is a Denise Austin DVD for that.

[Kettricken]

Lou, I agree. My list was not meant to be exhaustive. In addition to your Type 4's, one must add Type 5: "Sucks to be you" -- a partner who refuses to participate, even grudgingly, in your desired sexual activities or any sex at all.

I'm always torn about Type 4's. Who could argue that legitimate, often insuperable, medical and mental health issues can make a "normal" sexual life difficult, if not impossible for some? In which case their mates can rail against fate all they want, but have no excuse for taking out their frustrations on the afflicted partner.

But then there are the Type 3 & 5's masquerading as Type 4's ...

In part, it comes down to how highly motivated one is to maintain an intimate sexual relationship with one's partner, either by seeking a healing or learning to adapt. There's an incredible video doing the rounds on YouTube of a breakdancing "battle" between two young men on crutches ... their creativity and adaptability as they pursue their art is inspiring. I guess I feel like if it's important to you .... and/or you have a loving empathy for how important it is to your partner ... you'll try your best to pursue some kind of workable sexual relationship, even if medical and/or psychological roadblocks preclude having a "normal" sex life.

I guess, like most things, it just comes down to attitude. "For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have."

I appreciate your interest in my situation, and I'll try to post a bit on that in the next few days .... my anniversary is tomorrow, and I need to get back to preparing for that! It means a great deal to me this year.

[Kettricken]

MJ: "When I asked him what he said, he told me that it was something like 'Jesus Christ, I must take you home to meet my grandmother.'"

If I would have been drinking milk, it would have come out my nose. My coffee almost did.

That's some potent, addictive stuff there.

To paraphrase: "If this be external validation, make the most of it."

[Martelo]

Mj great post I think there are some absolute gems in there.

[SolidMechanic]

Moje,

I think I get it, although I had to read it a few times. You really need some graphics to explain this one.

What is the difference between being sexually demanding and being sexually assertive? I think the answer is that many LDW are sexually demanding but not sexually assertive. I am frequently sexually assertive but not usually sexually demanding.My new animal is based on my new theory that the feminine "top" is sexually demanding. I tried to come up with another animal but I think that we pretty much have to call her the "b*tch"

Ok, so you are calling demanding behavior "masculine top" and assertive behavior "feminine top"? So doing what you want to do in the moment (assertive) is masculine and asking for what you want done to you in the moment is feminine? Hmmm...

The "b*tch" is very attractive to the masculine "bottom". I might be being redundant but I want to clearly make the point that the masculine "bottom" is not feminine. The masculine "bottom" is not the same as the feminine "bottom". My evidence is the answer to the question I asked at the top of the essay. The masculine bottom wants to do stuff for the feminine top. The feminine bottom wants the masculine top to do stuff to her.

You have created another 2x2 matrix. (The other being the bunny-monkey-cow-lion scheme). On one axis you have "masculine-feminine", which is the same as "doing-being done"; and on the other you have "top-bottom", which is the same as "what you want-what the other wants". That means in the "masculine bottom" quadrant you are doing what the other wants. In the "feminine bottom" quadrant, you are being done the way the other wants. Do I have that right?

IMO, it is totally natural for men to be turned on by feminine top behavior. Unfortunately, women are generally turned off my masculine bottom behavior although they frequently unconsciously promote it.

This is the big take-home lesson for me. When your wife tells you what you want, whether in bed or out, giving it to them slavishly just makes you a weenie in their eyes (attention Nice Guys). A lot of guys react by being willfully contradictory, but I don't think that is healthy either. What your wife or GF is asking for might be the best thing for all concerned. This is where I think teasing can be a great way of taking the "top" back from the woman. If she says "Lick my p*ssy", you could do what she says. Or you could respond by licking everything but the pu$$!, and then making her beg for it, which might be a lot more fun, while having the added benefit of taking back your power.

Now I'm beginning to see that there is the option of asking someone to give you something rather than just going out and getting it yourself. Pretty scary stuff for me. I felt like an alien had inhabited my body the other day when I "made" Lance go get me coffee in the morning because he had none in his house after an all night f*ckfest. My b*tch muscle is more pathetically underdeveloped than my triceps. I wonder if there is a Denise Austin DVD for that.

Asking for what you want can lead to discomfort for a bunch of reasons.

• A perception that it is pushy and demanding behavior, like you saw in your mother,
• a sense that you don't deserve the things that you want to ask for,
• the belief that asking something of a particular person is pointless because they are generally nonresponsive (like, maybe your wasband),
• or because to ask for someone else to do something for you is to give up control over the outcome.

From my side, what I need to work on is doing things just because I want to do them, without asking - actually have been doing quite well with this in the past year - and letting people do things for me when they offer.

SM