It's going to be a bumpy ride

[Trixi]

I am not in a good place right now.

He came home and I was crying my eyes out while I did the dishes. He asked what was wrong and I said that soon, for the first time in 12 years I won't be looking forward to him coming home. For the first time in 12 years I'll be in the bed by myself without knowing that he'll be home soon. I said "This might be really exciting for you, {he kinda shook his head that it wasn't} but for me, it's VERY sad." And then I said "I'm sorry for being upset and dumping it on you" and he said "No, no. I need to hear this sort of thing."

I am having a hell of a time acting "as if". I am scared out of my mind.

[Trixi]

He was very frustrated with me tonight. Partially because he doesn't want to see me hurt. Well, duh, that's part of the consequences. (So much for "no, no. I need to hear this sort of thing."

So, off he waltzes to go out partying at the bars while I stay here bawling. Yes, I *could* go out; if I wanted people to ask if I've been crying and avoid me like the plague.

His plans for this weekend-go and meet a guy to jam with; go to his parents house; go buy a new bed; get the bare necessities in the apartment and then take off late next week to finish moving. "Bare necessities" being basically a bed.

As he left, he did a kissy noise at me and I opened my arms for a hug and he gave me a peck and a half hearted hug with "pal pats". I HATE pal pats.

[MaxP]

Agent99,

It's a tough place to be right no, but it will get better. Try to think of little things you could do that you might enjoy. Use these to shift your mood, even just by a small amount.

Max

[Trixi]

Thanks Max-
I was starting to feel like I was talking to myself and all alone.
I took my ring off yesterday and didn't cry or anything. I had gone thru some old posts of mine on a different board and actually managed to get myself good and mad at his poor behavior.
He got home around 6ish and plopped down on the couch to watch tv. I made a pan dinner and at first didnt offer him any. heh. He comes over and peers in the pan "Whatcha making?" "General Tso's chicken." "Oh...looks good." I waited til it was all the way done before saying "Oh-Did you want to have some?"

We both were on the couch watching tv and I was in a pretty good mood. Luckily we were watching comedy so it was easy to enjoy myself. Anyway, I was laughing and being silly and he looked at me in a funny way. Then he got flirty. Then...well, then we all know what happened.

Afterwards he said "Do we still have that movie?" "Yes" "We should watch it tonight." So we ended up laying in bed watching a movie, eating ice cream and snuggling.

What he *doesn't* know is that once he moves out, he will have a rude awakening if he tries to come over here at 2am for booty call. The ONLY way he will be 'allowed' is if he takes me out on a date first. And, even then, I'm not so sure.

[Dom R]

he said "No, no. I need to hear this sort of thing."

sounds like he's still wanting you to be his concience and "talk him out of it".

I am having a hell of a time acting "as if". I am scared out of my mind.

I dont think this is the time for "acting as if". I think this is the time for standing firm and letting him know what kind of boundaries you have, and then STICKING TO THEM!!

remember: he has been asking you to set moral standards, the whole time. he's been asking you to basically yell at him and get a backbone, for months now.
He will not respect you, if you dont show that you have moral standards, and stick to them.

What are your moral standards? how many times did you go out, before you had sex, for example?
I think your approach to sex with him should be consistent with what he thinks your moral standards are, to some point. If it was a long time until you had sex... i think you would be very justified.. and almost EXPECTED by him.. to have no sex whatsoever while he is living separately.
If on the other hand, you jumped in the sack relatively quickly(by your own choice)... it kinda gets blurry. unless what he's been implying, is that he wants you to show more moral firmness than you have been previously.

That's my guess on things, anyway. good luck,and supportive prayers for you.

[Dom R]

PS: PUT YOUR RING BACK ON!!!

[Trixi]

he said "No, no. I need to hear this sort of thing."

sounds like he's still wanting you to be his concience and "talk him out of it".

I wish it were that easy. He was irritated later with me being upset. This morning he was also kinda pissy with me when I got a little distressed about his impending departure.

I have tried a couple of times to suggest that he not go; he has made it crystal clear that he MUST leave and he doesn't think we'll be reconciling. (But he's open to it.)

I am having a hell of a time acting "as if". I am scared out of my mind.

I dont think this is the time for "acting as if". I think this is the time for standing firm and letting him know what kind of boundaries you have, and then STICKING TO THEM!!

remember: he has been asking you to set moral standards, the whole time. he's been asking you to basically yell at him and get a backbone, for months now.
He will not respect you, if you dont show that you have moral standards, and stick to them.

I don't think he seeks moral standards. When I have suggested church he has declined. He WANTS to go out to bars and flirt. I think he seeks for me stand up for myself; not because of 'morals' but because of self esteem.

What are your moral standards? how many times did you go out, before you had sex, for example?

We did not wait nearly long enough. There are is no moral high ground from which to stand. When I tried to put any limits on dating and sex during our separation, he flat out refused. His big compromise was to agree that he wouldn't have sex for at least 2 months.

I think your approach to sex with him should be consistent with what he thinks your moral standards are, to some point. If it was a long time until you had sex... i think you would be very justified.. and almost EXPECTED by him.. to have no sex whatsoever while he is living separately.
If on the other hand, you jumped in the sack relatively quickly(by your own choice)... it kinda gets blurry. unless what he's been implying, is that he wants you to show more moral firmness than you have been previously.

That's my guess on things, anyway. good luck,and supportive prayers for you.

I appreciate the prayers. Really, I think he means for me to be a little b1tchy with him; not take any guff.

how's your situation going? Did the 'child suport' issues get resolved?

[Trixi]

PS: PUT YOUR RING BACK ON!!!

I am SOOOO ambivalent about that issue.

He stopped wearing his ring on July 5th. (and he had only been wearing it for less than a year.) He didn't wear it for many years previously.

I KNOW that he believes I will always be here waiting for him. Intellectually, he knows I could move on; but deep down, he knows he hasn't done anything hienous enough to get me to call it quits.

As long as I am wearing that ring, he will know that he still has me to come back to. I think he is someone that needs a challenge. I think I haven't presented enough of a challenge to him and that is why he talks of sassiness and independence.

Argh. Now I am second guessing the ring thing. He doesn't seem to have noticed anyway.

[mkultra]

My H always wore it when I did not. He had to stop wearing it after his weight loss. Typical. I say you should keep wearing it. I don't know if I should because I took it off after getting pregnant with S2.

[Dom R]

He was irritated later with me being upset. This morning he was also kinda pissy with me when I got a little distressed about his impending departure.

I have tried a couple of times to suggest that he not go; ...

it is said that a child "needs boundaries to feel secure".
However, that same child will also complain, when they hit said boundaries

Also, about your "suggestions"... it depends on *exactly* how you said it. there's a big difference between saying "you cant go", or "you shouldnt go", vs whatever particular phrasing he thinks he needs to hear.

Also, the most important thing.. timing.
I've learned the hard way, that the same words that might win your husband over.. can completely drive him away, if said at a time when he's not ready to hear them.

try comparing the times when he got upset, vs the time he said, "no, no, i needed to hear those things".

I don't think he seeks moral standards. When I have suggested church he has declined.

Note that I said i think he wants YOU to show moral standards. I didnt say that he wanted moral standards forced on both of you

Set moral standards for yourself. you can only control yourself. it then becomes his choice whether to match your standards within himself.
maybe that's what part of him is looking for. to have you be a moral standard, that he might then choose to admire and come back to. Dunno.

His big compromise was to agree that he wouldn't have sex for at least 2 months.

well, that's a positive thing. 2 months of celibacy should have a noticable effect on him. During that time, you should make yourself incredibly appealing, attractive, sexy... and unavailable in that way to him

About the ring:
on the one hand, its not about being available to him forever. its a statement that you view yourself as still married, and wish to stay married.
If you take your ring off, that is a huge, huge statement, "I am DONE with our marriage, it's over". Dont react to him being stupid about rings. dont follow his example. set your own.

Coming back to the being available to him, though... in another way, it IS saying, "you are available to him if he comes back". And I think that is a statement that you should be making at this point.

I think you should take the ring off, if you get divorced, but not before.
If he hasnt noticed yet.. good. put it on again, quick.

In some ways, if your husband thinks you have given up on him, while you are still married.. that may encourage him to leave.
To put it another way, "if even you have given up, there's no reason for him to try at all".

He actually sounds like one of the incredibly rare cases who is HONESTLY trying out separation to truely figure things out.
As opposed to 99% of the other cases, who say they're "trying to figure things out", but are doing it to get deeper involved with an already ongoing affair.

as such, in my non-professional opinion, you should still try to show yourself as fully open to reconciliation.
Just, not open to booty calls, etc. while he is separated from you. maybe going "a little dark" then. not pursuing at all, but letting him miss you.

As for my situation... negotiations are still under way. sigh.