Nothing too "exciting" to report from last night. I did a lot of housecleaning and chores. Felt good to have the house so clean! I have been keeping it clean but not as obsessively as when I had so much free time on my hands... so it feels good to have it realy spotless fora while.
Things just felt pretty normal with H... had dinner, watched TV a bit, he did garage stuff while I worked in the house. Felt nice to just be normal. No distance, highs or lows, just NORMAL.
Had one brief but really interesting conversation. In the morning I had asked H what day he could get off early for MC (he had told me earlier he could get off early but not what day). He said Tuesday so I thanked him, and scheduled it yesterday. Last night he didn't even ask if I had scheduled it, assumed that I did, but we had this convo:
H: So Tuesday.. is that for both of us? Me: (confused) Uh yeah, well, that was what I thought. Why do you ask? H: Well, I wondered if just I should go. Me: If you'd like to do that, that's ok with me. I would like to go together at some point though. H: Well I'm the one who's screwed up. You're fine, aren't you? Me: I think we both have some things to work on, and some of it's stuff we could use help with together. H: So you have something to get off your chest too? Me: Uh, there's a lot we need to talk about I think, and I know I could use some help working through it. [or something..forget how I worded this exactly.] H: I'm the one who's messed up in the head though. I'm the one who's doing things wrong. Me: Do you want to get into any of it now, or wait til Tuesday? [I wanted to wait but didn't want to shut him down if he wanted to talk] H: Oh, no, don't want to talk about it right now. I just wondered if I should go alone on Tuesday.
I left it open and asked him to just let me know what he decides. Thought that was a really interesting convo though. I was proud of us both for talking through it and not getting into things we weren't comfortable tackling on our own. In the past this type of convo could easily have spiraled downward in a HURRY.
The #1 thing that jumped out at me was how we really have NO IDEA what the other one is thinking. I knew this, but it just really emphasized it for me. In particular I'm reminded how "the bomb" came as such a surprise to me. I bet H would've been shocked to hear me say that I am thinking very seriously about whether this M is right for me at this point (deep down I think yes, but I see a lot of changes needed too, it wasn't just me who needed to change).
So... we'll see how it goes, but just wanted to share/journal that.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
FWIW, I think MCs generally do a joint session first, and then set up some individual sessions.
It sounds like H has some things he wants to be able to discuss with someone without you in the room.
He (very indirectly) asked you over and over if he could see MC alone.
You (very indirectly) said over and over that you wanted to go together.
So, why don't you (very directly) say: H, I'd really like us to go together this first time starting MC again, but then I would be fine with one or both of us scheduling some individual visits. Does that work for you?
OT - thanks. Yeah, we were both very indirect. It's an improvement over the past, but needs a lot of work for sure. I like your idea, and will ask him that way tonight or this weekend.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
OT- oh, I WAS talking about satisfying me... the part about doing "you know what" by myself right by him and making sure he knew what was going on.
The other stuff, ya, about him, but thought it could help since she's gotten "turned down".
Nikki- now that you've made more specific reasons that H IS self conscious about his "ability", that it probably WOULD be a good idea to try out the, fullfill your own fantasy with him watching, or at least right next to you. I never could feel comfortable with him watching, but he's always right next to me and definitely knows what Im doing, and a lot of time he'll be caressing me on my arm or leg or something.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
oh, I think, although it was an indirect convo, that you did really well. It was great to hear you say "did you want to talk about this now, or tuesday". If you hadn't of done that, I could see a potential "fight" coming.
I agree that you should tell H that you would like to go together first and you guys can arrange times for separate sessions then.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
I'm too drained to remember it all, but here are the things that stand out:
.. all started with the fact that some appraiser called the house. He said "Hey Nikki I'm calling about the appraisal." So he has my name but seriously, I have NO IDEA who this is. I have not called anyone to appraise the house. H heard the message, flipped out, called the guy and found out he was supposedly called to appraise the house. H thinks I am documenting a separation date or something. Of course told me nothing but he was an a$$ all night. I didn't know WHY until I heard this message later. I told him over and over I did NOT call the appraiser (and I didn't, I have no idea how this guy got my info!!)... he said he believes me but who knows. At one point I said "I guess you're so accustomed to lying to me now you think I'm good at it too? I'm not that good babe. I'm telling you the truth." Snotty? Yeah.. I apologized for it, but admit it was snotty and not really ok.
Various lines throughout the night:
Me (joking, thought he was texting a friend): oooh are you TEXTing? Didn't know ya knew how to do that. H: (acting way guilty): umm yeah. Me: Hey wait.. who is that? H: [fake name, then].. you make me lie about it because you don't want to know. [admits to texting her]
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
So yeah, basically he figured out texting so he can contact her more quietly.
Ass.
I laid on the couch for awhile. Later we talked some. Again just snippets....
H: I care about you so much, I can't believe I'm hurting you like this. You know I don't mean to, right?
Me: Right. It's all your choice. Anyway, is her friendship more important than our M, than I am, to you? Because I hope you know, it's coming down to that. H: I know, I've thought about that.
I asked if he had ANY male coworkers or friends he spent this much time with? He said guiltily, no.
He got into maybe he should just shoot himself... I said I'd call 911 if he was serious and he said no, he wasn't. He said he wished she'd been a friend before he and I met, so I'd accept it.. barf. I said "I'd be surprised if any new 'girlfriend' accepts it either, just so you know. None of your friends think it's ok." H agreed, "I know, that's why I keep rethinking it, because they all think it's so wrong."
uuuuuuuugh
I forget why or how but we got into what we love about each other and why, I gave a long list for H (a very sincere, detailed list) and he looked really touched. Then said "You shouldn't love me, I don't deserve it."
He started to tell me my list and said a few sweet things but then held me tight and said "I just can't, it's just YOU, I can't put it into words. It's just YOU. I care about you, everything about you. You're so good."
I asked him to tell me now if he's leaving or kicking me out so I can find a place - he said no, he is "really trying" and wants it to work. I told him about some of the struggles and success stories I've seen here, he said "I want that." But looked tired.
Oh.. and asked halfway through if it was ok to text her, he was afraid she misunderstood an earlier text.
Did I mention... ass????
He kept telling me he doesn't deserve me, doesn't deserve love.. and what sucks is I know it isn't true. All the good things I said about him he even AGREED with. He said they are true but he doesn't deserve for me to see it.
Yuck.
It comes down to this... I know I gotta go and I don't want to. I just don't.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
Nikki, glad you popped back over. It seems our paths are still running parallel. I can certainly understand the conflicted feelings you are having. For me I just don't think w is going to be willing to give up OM, unless I move out or hunker down for a heck of a lot longer. If you don't want to, don't. Keep striving for loving detachment and let H sort out his crazy emotions. He said a lot of good stuff, but actions need to speak for him, as you well know. Good luck with all, I have been keeping you in my prayers.
Nikki-- I am so sorry. I know how hard this is, and what you may be facing. I had the same kind of convo with H months ago--how can you pick a "friend" over your W's feelings? Then I found out how. I really hope it's not that, but it could explain the stalemate and his self-hatred. I agree--yuck.
Good note--you already know that he didn't like being alone; he came back.
Since you are trying to piece and have a C apt coming up, do you think he would read the infidelity articles over at MarriageBuilders.com? It talks about being addicted to the OW, and how you have to stop cold-turkey.
Did you guys talk about the counseling sessions, and who is going when?
Good luck to you over this weekend...I'll be checking in.
